Is it ethical to be a succubus/incubus? (NSFW) (Poll)

[minacia]

So you reincarnated in an isekai universe as a succubus/incubus.​

​

In this particular universe, succubi/incubi absorb life energy from their prey. Having sex with someone literally shortens their lifespan at a rate of 1 min sex = 1 month lifespan. In other words, having sex with someone for an 1 hour is approximately the same as shortening the victim's lifespan by 5 years. Every succubus/incubus needs at least four hours of sex (food) every day to stay healthy.​

​

Anyhow, you were born in the demon kingdom, which is generally pretty safe for demons and other monsters.​

​

In the demon kingdom, there are human farms. Basically, these are places where humans are caught and serve as food for demons. Your parents (also succubi/incubi) bring you to the human farms to eat because it's extremely safe. Really bad X-rated stuff happens in human farms, which I won't describe in detail.​

​

In either case... since you used to be human... the existence of these human farms is horrifying to you. However, in demon culture, they're considered perfectly normal just like cattle ranches are perfectly normalized in human culture.​

​

It's really bad... yet... most demons depend on these farms for food...​

​

You ask your parents why demons can't find consensual human victims, and they look at you like you are crazy. They tell you that humans hate demons, and it's impossible to find a consensual human victim because succubi/incubi literally kill their victims (by sucking their life out of them). Humans will kill demons on sight, making it extremely dangerous for demons to travel into the human lands.​

1. How would you live your life as a succubus/incubus?

2. Do you think your human values would influence your life as a demon?

3. Suppose you have a friend who treats humans with unnecessary and pointless cruelty at the farms. What would you say to them?

4. Suppose on your journeys, you encounter a human that roasts your species for keeping human farms, calling it reprehensible and disgusting. How do you respond?

5. Suppose you uncover a secret plot from a bunch of human prisoners who seek to release all the humans captured in a farm. What would you do?

 

[UYScuti]

I’m not sure asking if it’s ethical means anything. If you are born a lion do you wonder if it’s ethical to kill a baby buffalo? It’s just your way to eat. You were a human, now you’re a demon. Sure, you can kill yourself, but even if there is a confirmed reincarnation, there are no guarantees things will turn out better.

The goal is survival. If you need to feed on humans, then you do that because otherwise you die.

1: Yes
2: Team Demon now.
3: Don’t play with your food. Also teach them that happy humans give the best life energy.
4: Kill him/her if possible. It’s best to not allow them to show your food that they can be free.
5: Report this through the proper channels.

 

[Nahrenne]

So you reincarnated in an isekai universe as a succubus/incubus.​

​

In this particular universe, succubi/incubi absorb life energy from their prey. Having sex with someone literally shortens their lifespan at a rate of 1 min sex = 1 month lifespan. In other words, having sex with someone for an 1 hour is approximately the same as shortening the victim's lifespan by 5 years. Every succubus/incubus needs at least four hours of sex (food) every day to stay healthy.​

​

Anyhow, you were born in the demon kingdom, which is generally pretty safe for demons and other monsters.​

​

In the demon kingdom, there are human farms. Basically, these are places where humans are caught and serve as food for demons. Your parents (also succubi/incubi) bring you to the human farms to eat because it's extremely safe. Really bad X-rated stuff happens in human farms, which I won't describe in detail.​

​

In either case... since you used to be human... the existence of these human farms is horrifying to you. However, in demon culture, they're considered perfectly normal just like cattle ranches are perfectly normalized in human culture.​

​

It's really bad... yet... most demons depend on these farms for food...​

​

You ask your parents why demons can't find consensual human victims, and they look at you like you are crazy. They tell you that humans hate demons, and it's impossible to find a consensual human victim because succubi/incubi literally kill their victims (by sucking their life out of them). Humans will kill demons on sight, making it extremely dangerous for demons to travel into the human lands.​

1. How would you live your life as a succubus/incubus?

2. Do you think your human values would influence your life as a demon?

3. Suppose you have a friend who treats humans with unnecessary and pointless cruelty at the farms. What would you say to them?

4. Suppose on your journeys, you encounter a human that roasts your species for keeping human farms, calling it reprehensible and disgusting. How do you respond?

5. Suppose you uncover a secret plot from a bunch of human prisoners who seek to release all the humans captured in a farm. What would you do?

|.o)
I have some questions:
You said that succubi/incubi absorb life energy from their prey but you never said humans are the only prey they could do this with. Am I correct in thinking other things can be prey, then?
'-'
This leads to another question, if we're talking about ethical things...is it considered terrible to 'feed' using other animals and species? Say elves, for instance? If they exist, surely they would have a longer life span, thus be more useful to have/be in a relationship with?
Also, would plant life also count?
'-'
How long do other demon races live for? What do they need to survive?
'-'
4 hours sounds like a lot...is that a lot?
|.o)
*genuinely doesn't know*
|.<)

Now to try and answer your questions with what I have mentioned in mind:

1. As bad as it could end up looking, I might try alternative 'food' sources, like elves, etc...
2. I honestly don't know. Possibly, though I would be terrified of doing something abnormal if it meant being ostracised.
3. "Wouldn't that cruelty reduce the food's life span more than being nice? Try and make them live healthily so you can feed on them for longer Who knows, the food might taste better that way."
'-'
Something like that, maybe?
4. I mean...you're assuming I would be going on journeys...
*is a hikikomori introvert with social anxiety at heart*
I'd hide out of fear of being roasted alive myself, or run away. I'm assuming I'd have no powers.
>w<
5. '-'
That would probably depend on how far into a succubus personality I've gone into.
I don't know...
I would have several options:
- Inform the guards/people who run the place
- Keep quiet and pretend I never found out
- Try and reason with the humans out of misguided belief they will die quickly otherwise
- Keep tabs on them and possibly help them if they managed to escape, though my succubus instincts would probably kick in and I'd want a meal

'-'
This scenario doesn't have enough info or context for me to give more in-depth and thought out answers...
orz

X

 

[Milk.Milkan]

1. How would you live your life as a succubus/incubus?

2. Do you think your human values would influence your life as a demon?

3. Suppose you have a friend who treats humans with unnecessary and pointless cruelty at the farms. What would you say to them?

4. Suppose on your journeys, you encounter a human that roasts your species for keeping human farms, calling it reprehensible and disgusting. How do you respond?

5. Suppose you uncover a secret plot from a bunch of human prisoners who seek to release all the humans captured in a farm. What would you do?

1. Pretty normal, its natural for demons after all.
You see, all dat guys and gals who say shit like "oh no, if i image dat kind of stuff and be in need of torturing humans while i also lived my life as human i wont do that id feel bad" and stuff r just lying and first of all lying to demselves as dey will happily torture humans in da demon society and stuff. Its not ethical for humans, surely, but why do human ethics should work or even be remembered in demon society? Cuz me was human? Bullshit.

2. Ahahahahahahahahahahahahaha. No.

3. Animal abuse is bad but humans r not just any animal as deyre not "living beings who no understand shit" but a "living beings who understand shit" so umm. Actually depends. If he abuses dat cute girl dat heey, lemmie do ma stuff to her instead. But if he abuses other else dan why not. he like dat and he friend and we demons so dats ok. At least if its not against the farm rules as farms r to eat and not to abuse.

4. "And yall try it out soon enough."

5. Prevent. Food no need to run.

 

[minacia]

This leads to another question, if we're talking about ethical things...is it considered terrible to 'feed' using other animals and species? Say elves, for instance? If they exist, surely they would have a longer life span, thus be more useful to have/be in a relationship with?

Elves are an okay food source! o7

Elves are rarer though, so they're harder to find and more prized. Humans are cheap!

Also, would plant life also count?
'-'

No veggies!

How long do other demon races live for? What do they need to survive?
'-'

Depends on the demon race. Some eat other stuff, some eat human meat... it really varies...

4 hours sounds like a lot...is that a lot?
|.o)
*genuinely doesn't know*
|.<)

Uhhh, yes. >.<

But succubi/incubi have a stereotype for doing it a lot, so I picked that number.

 

[Nahrenne]

Elves are an okay food source! o7

Elves are rarer though, so they're harder to find and more prized. Humans are cheap!

'-'
How about beastkin, gnomes, dwarves, lizard people, merfolk, normal animals, nymphs, draiads, satyrs, etc...?
'-'

No veggies!

|.o)
How about herbs and fruit?
Namely, bananas and cucumbers?
|.<)

Depends on the demon race. Some eat other stuff, some eat human meat... it really varies...

'-'
Is there a rule against feeding off other demons?
How does succubus/incubus reproduction work, anyway?
'-'

Uhhh, yes. >.<

But succubi/incubi have a stereotype for doing it a lot, so I picked that number.

'-'
I see.
How long is normal, then?

X

 

[minacia]

'-'
How about beastkin, gnomes, dwarves, lizard people, merfolk, normal animals, nymphs, draiads, satyrs, etc...?
'-'

In my headcanon, the answer is yes -- except for normal animals!

|.o)
How about herbs and fruit?
Namely, bananas and cucumbers?
|.<)

No it doesn't count!

'-'
Is there a rule against feeding off other demons?
How does succubus/incubus reproduction work, anyway?
'-'

It's theoretically possible, but it's unlikely other demons would agree to it because it drains their life.

Uhh... I suppose succubi/incubi can have sex without draining life force, but then it wouldn't count as food.

'-'
I see.
How long is normal, then?

It depends on the couple, but way less than an hour. 5-20 minutes, maybe.

 

[AryaX]

I don't think ethics really enter into it... also, expecting for the food to consent to being eaten is a bit... crazy? no? Maybe the succubi/incubi can use some charm abilities to "force consent" to make eating easier/safer, but its not really "consent" of course if its forced...

1. Going to a farm to eat seems a bit... weird... maybe I got used to it? Maybe I would look for some sort of home delivery service? Maybe I would look up into whether starting such a company would be profitable? ... Also, while hunting wild humans might be more dangerous, it might also be much more interesting... might look into that... If its too dangerous, might consider something a bit like the "west world".

2. If I remember my human life, it would inevitably influence... but in what way? I don't think I would try to hold on to any human centered morality just because I used to be human?

3. If I know or believe its unnecessarily or pointlessly cruel, I might point that out... but maybe it isn't... maybe they taste better when you abuse em?

4. Don't know... maybe I would point out the animal farms run by humans? or maybe I just wouldn't bother arguing with the "lunch" ?

5. Report it to the people in charge of course...

 

[minacia]

;-; I really hate this one...

uh... I don’t know how I would be, to be honest.

I can totally see myself as someone who would sympathize and talk to their food rather than eating it...

 

[The_Long_Serpent]

I don't think ethics really enter into it... also, expecting for the food to consent to being eaten is a bit... crazy? no? Maybe the succubi/incubi can use some charm abilities to "force consent" to make eating easier/safer, but its not really "consent" of course if its forced...

1. Going to a farm to eat seems a bit... weird... maybe I got used to it? Maybe I would look for some sort of home delivery service? Maybe I would look up into whether starting such a company would be profitable? ... Also, while hunting wild humans might be more dangerous, it might also be much more interesting... might look into that... If its too dangerous, might consider something a bit like the "west world".

2. If I remember my human life, it would inevitably influence... but in what way? I don't think I would try to hold on to any human centered morality just because I used to be human?

3. If I know or believe its unnecessarily or pointlessly cruel, I might point that out... but maybe it isn't... maybe they taste better when you abuse em?

4. Don't know... maybe I would point out the animal farms run by humans? or maybe I just wouldn't bother arguing with the "lunch" ?

5. Report it to the people in charge of course...

I think you're talking about tenderizing them.

 

[Wohendum-Bluu]

They are succubi and incubi. The day the word incubi and ethics enters the same sentence is the day ( insert witty line that wows everyone and then pretend everything went according to plan).

Anyway yeah.... ? ? ? ?

 

[SternenklarenRitter]

1) I'm not going to intentionally hurt a sapient creature capable of both logical and emotive reasoning. I'll have to get food by getting down on the farm, maybe with some cows or horses. As a 'cubis, I'm sure I'd eventually learn to enjoy the food.

2) Yes, every memory influences my values, whether I like it or not.

3) Dude, making you lunch suffer is not cool.

4) I run away; someone like that clearly wants me dead.

5) The morality is not clear cut enough here for me to force my own morals. I'm gonna skip town to a place where there isn't about to be a bloody rebellion.

 

[DeirdreH]

In this particular universe, succubi/incubi absorb life energy from their prey. Having sex with someone literally shortens their lifespan at a rate of 1 min sex = 1 month lifespan. In other words, having sex with someone for an 1 hour is approximately the same as shortening the victim's lifespan by 5 years. Every succubus/incubus needs at least four hours of sex (food) every day to stay healthy.

This scenario you've created is ridiculous. I get that it is a fantasy setting, but even then there are limits to how far you can go and still make sense.


You've proposed that every living demon needs to consume lifespan that is equivalent to killing about two humans per week to survive. For the sake of round numbers say each demon eats 100 humans per year.


However many demons exist in this world, the population of humans must be much, much higher. At the very least there must be 1000 humans per demon or else the demons will eat the humans too quickly for them to survive. (this is likely an underestimation assuming you can replace all cause mortality with consumption. The real number is probably 10000:1 or higher)


With that kind of population imbalance, how exactly to demons avoid being exterminated? It's not like they can live in some secluded area and avoid humanity: a basic demonic family of four has to acquire and consume 400 humans per year!


Presumably demons are stronger than humans on an individual level, but are they 1000 times stronger?


You should probably adjust the consumption ratios to something more reasonable. I just did a series of extremely cursed Google searches for the sake of this post and discovered that a human body is equivalent to about 80k calories. I wish I didn't know that but here we are.


If you adjust the consumption ratio of life energy to approximate literal eating and assume that demons have about the same caloric needs as humans then you can make it so that a succubus/incubus needs to eat one human's lifespan worth of energy every month or so or about 10 humans per year.


That still requires a high human to demon population ratio but at least it's not as extreme as before. The setting is now approaching plausibility.


Excuse me while I go purge my search history.

 

[DeirdreH]

Now for the math regarding human farms.

In order for the farm to be viable you need to be creating new life at the same rate it's being consumed. In other words, the number of babies born each year needs to match the number of equivalent lifespans consumed by the demons.

Let's be optimistic and assume that the demon farmers have managed to selectively breed low fertility humans out of the gene pool so the farmed human females can reliably produce a total of ten children, one every 18 months. That's extremely aggressive but not really outside the realm of possibility. In addition assume that humans in the farm are sexually mature at 15 for the purposes of consumption by demons and breeding.

For a small settlement of 1000 demons to survive they need to consume 10,000 human lifespans per year (this is assuming the revised number from my previous post, not the 10x higher number for the original post). Since the breeding females only produce 2 children every 3 years, this means you farm must contain 15,000 breeding females, with ages evenly divided between the ages of 15 and 30.

If the average female has 10 children in a lifetime, and the breeding pool is properly age graded (same number of females at each year of age) then the average number of children per female at a single point in time is 5. When you add up the breeders and the maturing stock that works out to a farm population of 90,000 humans to feed a demon village of 1000.

Better round that up to 100,000 though to account for accidents and illness.

The biggest challenge the demons will face will be the logistics of supplying food to their human livestock while preventing them from escaping or revolting. If they also have to worry about external attack it's going to be quite the challenge.

Where are 1,000 demons going to come up with enough food for 100,000 humans? The easiest answer is to make the humans farm their own food, but that means giving them tools and scope for independent action which makes controlling them even more difficult. That's probably a place to insert magic that handwaves away the problem in order to make the setting work.

 

[minacia]

This scenario you've created is ridiculous. I get that it is a fantasy setting, but even then there are limits to how far you can go and still make sense.


You've proposed that every living demon needs to consume lifespan that is equivalent to killing about two humans per week to survive. For the sake of round numbers say each demon eats 100 humans per year.


However many demons exist in this world, the population of humans must be much, much higher. At the very least there must be 1000 humans per demon or else the demons will eat the humans too quickly for them to survive. (this is likely an underestimation assuming you can replace all cause mortality with consumption. The real number is probably 10000:1 or higher)


With that kind of population imbalance, how exactly to demons avoid being exterminated? It's not like they can live in some secluded area and avoid humanity: a basic demonic family of four has to acquire and consume 400 humans per year!


Presumably demons are stronger than humans on an individual level, but are they 1000 times stronger?


You should probably adjust the consumption ratios to something more reasonable. I just did a series of extremely cursed Google searches for the sake of this post and discovered that a human body is equivalent to about 80k calories. I wish I didn't know that but here we are.


If you adjust the consumption ratio of life energy to approximate literal eating and assume that demons have about the same caloric needs as humans then you can make it so that a succubus/incubus needs to eat one human's lifespan worth of energy every month or so or about 10 humans per year.


That still requires a high human to demon population ratio but at least it's not as extreme as before. The setting is now approaching plausibility.


Excuse me while I go purge my search history.

This was very amusing to read! Thank you for your research!

I think 1000 times stronger is a very typical power level ratio in a lot of stories though. I've read a number of stories where human-eating demons (i.e. vampires) are absurdly strong, to the point that they could wipe out humanity if they wanted to, but they don't because it's their main food source so they have no reason to go around mass-murdering humans. Meanwhile, humans are mostly powerless to resist.

I personally think a 1:10 human-to-demon ratio is way too low.

I think I favor the 1:100 or 1:1000 ratio, but that's my personal preference.

I do agree that the energy consumption ratio could be lowered though.

Now for the math regarding human farms.

In order for the farm to be viable you need to be creating new life at the same rate it's being consumed. In other words, the number of babies born each year needs to match the number of equivalent lifespans consumed by the demons.

Let's be optimistic and assume that the demon farmers have managed to selectively breed low fertility humans out of the gene pool so the farmed human females can reliably produce a total of ten children, one every 18 months. That's extremely aggressive but not really outside the realm of possibility. In addition assume that humans in the farm are sexually mature at 15 for the purposes of consumption by demons and breeding.

For a small settlement of 1000 demons to survive they need to consume 10,000 human lifespans per year (this is assuming the revised number from my previous post, not the 10x higher number for the original post). Since the breeding females only produce 2 children every 3 years, this means you farm must contain 15,000 breeding females, with ages evenly divided between the ages of 15 and 30.

If the average female has 10 children in a lifetime, and the breeding pool is properly age graded (same number of females at each year of age) then the average number of children per female at a single point in time is 5. When you add up the breeders and the maturing stock that works out to a farm population of 90,000 humans to feed a demon village of 1000.

Better round that up to 100,000 though to account for accidents and illness.

The biggest challenge the demons will face will be the logistics of supplying food to their human livestock while preventing them from escaping or revolting. If they also have to worry about external attack it's going to be quite the challenge.

Where are 1,000 demons going to come up with enough food for 100,000 humans? The easiest answer is to make the humans farm their own food, but that means giving them tools and scope for independent action which makes controlling them even more difficult. That's probably a place to insert magic that handwaves away the problem in order to make the setting work.

A 1000 demons is like an enormous population imo lol xD

With IVF it's very common to get supernumerary embryos (i.e. twinning or more, and it can be done intentionally), so it's medically possible to intentionally push the upper limit with the number of gestations per pregnancy. I think with something like magic in the setting, it's probably possible to produce a lot more.

 

[DeirdreH]

Well keep in mind the more you change the properties of humans with magic the less they remain human and the more they become just another kind of fantasy creature.

The reason to have humans in a fantasy story is for the readers to identify with them. A story about fantasy species A oppressing fantasy species B does not affect readers the same way.

 

[minacia]

Well keep in mind the more you change the properties of humans with magic the less they remain human and the more they become just another kind of fantasy creature.

The reason to have humans in a fantasy story is for the readers to identify with them. A story about fantasy species A oppressing fantasy species B does not affect readers the same way.

Certainly! ^^ ...That said, I've definitely read bad stuff where are variety of things are done that make it vaguely possible to do a lot at a time or very quickly in fashions that are nowhere close to realistic... sometimes it involves aliens or eggs... um, yeah, it's a fetish that exists...

 

[DeirdreH]

The other thing to note is that increasing the number of births per woman doesn't actually help in terms of the large farmed population.

The reason you need enormous human farms compared to the number of demons being fed is because of how many years it takes for a human to become fertile.

Cows are fertile at about one year of age, so the ratio of cattle to humans is a lot lower (also one cow feeds a human for a year vs a demon requiring 10-100 humans per year).

Cattle farmers in the real world don't bother trying to increase the number of gestations per pregnancy because it wouldn't actually produce any benefit. Every immature stock animal that is growing up is one that must be feed while being unavailable as food itself and so the more births produced per female the larger the fraction of the livestock is non-productive at any given time.

If anything you'd use magic to make humans mature faster and reduce the number of children per mother because this results in lower overall resource usage.