Identity dilemma

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Who will you pick?


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Deleted member 113259

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Now let's think about this. If you believe in souls then you can say you're still the same person inside. But if not then you technically just switched places with the other captive. So the final answer is to give him the money. Now the real question is how are you going to deal with the outside world with the new body. You don't know what the other guy did with it. Was he a death row inmate or does he have a huge amount of debt? Mabey he has a wife. What if you had a wife, how are you going to explain that it's you?
In truth such an experiment is impossible, we are body and soul. You can't split the two. At least no one on Earth can.
That was one of my intentions. The soul part, I mean.
How? I thought this was about deciding between a moral action and a beneficial action.
 

Woolen_Monkey

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In truth such an experiment is impossible, we are body and soul. You can't split the two. At least no one on Earth can.

How? I thought this was about deciding between a moral action and a beneficial action.
I have a question out of pure curiosity where would the soul be held? I imagine the brain.
 
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Deleted member 76176

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In truth such an experiment is impossible, we are body and soul. You can't split the two. At least no one on Earth can.

How? I thought this was about deciding between a moral action and a beneficial action.
That's why this is a thought experiment, and, no, this is about what you think makes up your 'self.'
 

Woolen_Monkey

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That's why this is a thought experiment, and, no, this is about what you think makes up your 'self.'
Get Brian juices working on how you define yourself. What makes you different from everyone else on the spinning ball destined to be destroyed?
 
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That's why this is a thought experiment, and, no, this is about what you think makes up your 'self.'
If it's about what makes up yourself then it's not covered in the dilemma. Both bodies will have souls that don't match with their actual memories therefore both people seize to exist and create different people entirely.
 

ThrillingHuman

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Scenario:

You have been kidnapped by a mad scientist who also has one other person captive. The scientist informs you that they will transplant everything in your mind to the other captive and everything in the other captive's mind to you (you'd not remember who you were before). This comprises everything that makes you who you are, such as your personality, beliefs, experiences, memories, and values.

Before beginning the experiment, the crazy scientist gives you a choice: you may either ask him to pay a million dollars to the other captive, who will receive your personality and memories, or to the current you, who will get their personality and memories.

Whichever person you choose to receive the money will be released, while the other person will be subjected to more torture and experimentation.
Memories are just luggage I'll drop like a sack of potatoes once I'm done with this life and move on to the greener pastures.
But considering I'd not want to become a hungry ghost in next life, I'll spare the other person and let them go free and let them have both my memories and the money. Look at how kind I am.
Not that this dillema even has a meaning since there is nobody here in the first place and such constructs as "me" and "them" are just illusions.
 

Woolen_Monkey

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If it's about what makes up yourself then it's not covered in the dilemma. Both bodies will have souls that don't match with their actual memories therefore both people seize to exist and create different people entirely.
Well, what exactly is a soul? If the soul defines who you are does that mean it holds onto memories and experiences? As memories and experiences define who you are then it makes sense that the soul holds thou memories. And since in the dilemma, you
swapping memories and experiences it wouldn't be so far to say that you are simply swapping souls. Therefore only your body would change not you.
 
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Well, what exactly is a soul? If the soul defines who you are does that mean it holds onto memories and experiences? As memories and experiences define who you are then it makes sense that the soul holds thou memories. And since in the dilemma, you
swapping memories and experiences it wouldn't be so far to say that you are simply swapping souls. Therefore only your body would change not you.
The rules of the dilemma say it compromises everything you are including memories and experiences.
 
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If it's about what makes up yourself then it's not covered in the dilemma. Both bodies will have souls that don't match with their actual memories therefore both people seize to exist and create different people entirely.
A delimma is a situation in which a difficult choice has to be made between two or more alternatives, especially equally undesirable ones. It is true that after the transplantation, you'd not be quite 'you,' and this is what it is even about. How much does one person have to change to cease being, well, you? Where does your personal identity reside? To give a similar analogy, if one day you wake up in a different person's body, are you the same 'you' you had been before waking up in that body? Or the current person who is occupying your past body is you.' Is the person's body you feel like occupying even 'you'? Nothing changed except the mental content.
 

Woolen_Monkey

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The rules of the dilemma say it compromises everything you are including memories and experiences.
What exactly does that mean? Self-doubt?
A delimma is a situation in which a difficult choice has to be made between two or more alternatives, especially equally undesirable ones. It is true that after the transplantation, you'd not be quite 'you,' and this is what it is even about. How much does one person have to change to cease being, well, you? Where does your personal identity reside? To give a similar analogy, if one day you wake up in a different person's body, are you the same 'you' you had been before waking up in that body? Or the current person who is occupying your past body is you.' Is the person's body you feel like occupying even 'you'? Nothing changed except the mental content.
See this what I was thinking.
 

Woolen_Monkey

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@Woolen_Monkey @Reinaislost Then the dilemma is incompetently framed.

The you that made the choice no longer exists for you now only remember yourself as the other guy. The analogy you provided isn't similar at all.
Aah, I see I mixed that up too so you're the other guy now okay.

On another note, his is similar. It happens to both captives simply waking up in different bodies.
 

Cipiteca396

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Maybe not so much when it comes to practical life, but the thought experiment demonstrates which one of them you think makes up the 'you': the body or the mind.
If you JUST want to know that, the experiment is flawed.

The experiment as it is now tests that AND altruism.
An altruistic person will try to spare the other subject from suffering.
A selfish person will try to escape and live an indulgent life.

If one considers the body the 'self', then the altruist would give the other person the money so they go free, while the selfish sort would keep the money.

If they instead consider the mind the 'self', then the altruist would keep the money, allowing the other captive's memories to escape in their body.
The selfish sort would give the money away, knowing that their mind would collect the rewards.

Ideally, you'd want to simplify the experiment to make it so both the altruist and the selfish sort would make the same choice.

For example... There is no second person. Instead, your memories are transferred to a computer(or other suitable host, guilt free), and your body is left an amnesiac. Both are allowed to go free. Which one do you give the money to?

(For the answer as framed, I'd take the money. My memories would go to the other person and be tortured, but with my memories, they'd be better able to handle and survive the situation. Unless they were previously a soldier, or something.)
 
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Aah, I see I mixed that up too so you're the other guy now okay.

On another note, his is similar. It happens to both captives simply waking up in different bodies.
Not exactly. For the sake of argument let's define a soul as one's intrinsic traits. As the metaphysical connection to God, that's what it most likely is. So let's say person A is a naturally optimistic person but has learned to be charitable through experiences while person B is the opposite. Once the switch happens you have an optimistic but greedy person and a pessimistic but charitable person. Neither of these people are the same.
 
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Woolen_Monkey

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Not exactly. For the sake of argument let' define a soul as one's intrinsic traits. As the metaphysical connection to God, that's what it most likely is. So let's say person A is a naturally optimistic person but has learned to be charitable through experiences while person B is the opposite. Once the switch happens you have an optimistic but greedy person and a pessimistic but charitable person. Neither of these people are the same.
So a soul is like a baseline state.
If it's like that you would end up with two different people.
 
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@Woolen_Monkey @Reinaislost Then the dilemma is incompetently framed.

The you that made the choice no longer exists for you now only remember yourself as the other guy. The analogy you provided isn't similar at all.
Does that mean losing memories implies they have lost their identity too?
If you JUST want to know that, the experiment is flawed.

The experiment as it is now tests that AND altruism.
An altruistic person will try to spare the other subject from suffering.
A selfish person will try to escape and live an indulgent life.

If one considers the body the 'self', then the altruist would give the other person the money so they go free, while the selfish sort would keep the money.

If they instead consider the mind the 'self', then the altruist would keep the money, allowing the other captive's memories to escape in their body.
The selfish sort would give the money away, knowing that their mind would collect the rewards.

Ideally, you'd want to simplify the experiment to make it so both the altruist and the selfish sort would make the same choice.

For example... There is no second person. Instead, your memories are transferred to a computer(or other suitable host, guilt free), and your body is left an amnesiac. Both are allowed to go free. Which one do you give the money to?

(For the answer as framed, I'd take the money. My memories would go to the other person and be tortured, but with my memories, they'd be better able to handle and survive the situation. Unless they were previously a soldier, or something.)
Right, my bad. I thought the thread title would have made this obvious.
 

Woolen_Monkey

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Does that mean losing memories implies they have lost their identity too?

Right, my bad. I thought the thread title would have made this obvious.

So imagine you have a serial killer right and then you have a kind-hearted teacher. If the teacher loses memory of all his experience that made him become a teacher but has the memories of a serial killer. He would then think he is a serial killer right?

Did that make sense or am I just confusing you?
 
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So imagine you have a serial killer right and then you have a kind-hearted teacher. If the teacher loses memory of all his experience that made him become a teacher but has the memories of a serial killer. He would then think he is a serial killer right?

Did that make sense or am I just confusing you?
It makes sense, yes. But both of you know that you've swapped bodies here.
 
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