How to explain a complex power system.

[Sergeandgreen]

Hello, I recently started to write a xianxia story (not released yet) and build a complete interconnected cultivation system. Like three different paths, with ten stages each, where each stage has something that can be improved or gives new abilities. Just the rough sketch for that takes up 7k words.And that was before i added 8 primary elements and 28 secondary elements.

Now the general question, how and in what setting do you describe your magic system? Do you have any tips or tricks to not make it the infodump of doom?

I will definitely break my explanation down into multiple parts to make the info dump not too large, but no matter if its a book, a lecture, or a master disciple lesson, it will be a large info dump, especially when I actually explain it in detail and not just as a sketch. I try to add a few sprinkles in casual dialogs as well, so that I can skimp over some information and focus on the new when mc listens to a lecture. But a few creative ideas or your experiences with explaining a complex magic system would be appreciated.

 

[RepresentingWrath]

I say don't use a complex power system. But if you are hellbent on it, explain it one step at the time through dialogues. I don't really have advice other than that. You can also do the full infodump explanation in the glossary, in case someone doesn't get it from a dialogue.

 

[Sergeandgreen]

Yeah, i definitely wanted to work with a glossary. I mean just the list of elements is so long that i will only mention one or two secondary elements and put the rest in a table in the author notes.


What is your opinion on lessons? Does it count as a dialog?

 

[RepresentingWrath]

What is your opinion on lessons? Does it count as a dialog?

It depends on how it is presented. You should be careful when you write a lesson, so it would sound natural. In case of Xianxia, I also think the first teacher(master) shouldn't explain half of the existing realms and everything about cultivation. Explain a little bit, and stop for some time. Then explain a little bit more and stop again. Something like this.

Moreover, if MC starts in a small sect, with a relativelly weak master, in other words, someone who is not strong, I think it would be better to also mention how they don't know a lot rather than not knowing a little bit. Maybe even make them wrong here and there in their explanations. That way, when we get a correct explanation later on, we can understand why this sect or teacher failed to grow stronger. Or MC is reincarnated or whatever else, and MC will correct it. Which will once again give us understanding of a lot of things.

Anyway, whatever you decide to do, your choice of words and the way you phrase everything will decide whether it's good or not.

Yeah, i definitely wanted to work with a glossary. I mean just the list of elements is so long that i will only mention one or two secondary elements and put the rest in a table in the author notes.

Personally, I would drop the novel. I think you(generic you) should explain everything in the novel. If you(again, generic you) failed to do so for whatever reason, that's a huge minus for me. Obviously I do not count works where authors decide not to explain stuff deliberately. I'm talking about a huge power systems that can't be integrated into a story without infodumping, so the author decides to use the glossary as a crutch. I drop such stories. But this is just me, I don't know about everyone else.

 

[Corty]

It depends on how it is presented. You should be careful when you write a lesson, so it would sound natural. In case of Xianxia, I also think the first teacher(master) shouldn't explain half of the existing realms and everything about cultivation. Explain a little bit, and stop for some time. Then explain a little bit more and stop again. Something like this.

This. Only explain what is at arm's length. It is enough to have the bases and foundation down and what is within the reachable distance for the MC. The rest can be added as he grows stronger.

 

[ACertainPassingUser]

Copy paste another novel's complex power system. Done.

 

[Sergeandgreen]

Well, since creating the thread, i have written a lesson to get a feeling for it. 1,5k words just for the first stage of one path. But its the foundation of the foundation. But yeah, i definitely plan to only give him access to a few things beyond his current power. I didn't want to make a lesson for all 10 x 3 stages at once.


I wanted to use the glossary as something to reread what i already explained. Maybe as an assistance to those who took a break from the story and don't want to start from the beginning. The glossary shouldn't add new content. Only show the known things in a compact format.
Regarding the table with the elements, i could also insert it into the chapter itself at full length like a system message in a litrpg, but I'm not sure if that isn't hindering the reading flow more than it helps.

 

[TheEldritchGod]

I start with quantum mechanics and work my way up.
Here

 

[Corty]

I wanted to use the glossary as something to reread what i already explained. Maybe as an assistance to those who took a break from the story and don't want to start from the beginning. The glossary shouldn't add new content.

Glossary is more for us authors anyway because many readers never even realise it is an option. I used it for the same reason, so that I can just look up what did I explain already and to not repeat myself. It is great help to keep track of what has been revealed and what is yet to be put into the story.

 

[CharlesEBrown]

Well, with mine about 1/3 of it was "explained" as the hero realized what he could do, another third comes out when he is forced to prove he has actual magical ability, and the rest seeps out in bits and pieces as the story progresses.

 

[Heartmint]

I can only comment as a reader and not as an author. Beside all the point other people already said, my advice is: trim it. Trim the explanation. Often, novel with complex power system is just author explaining every tiny detail, even the obvious one. The reader is human, and can think of their own. Let them make the connection themselves based on explanation of the core function and some vague explaining on the detail.

Even with your complex system, I'm sure there's some part that is not really have that much impact on the overall system, the one that you can trim. I'm not saying you should simplify your system, I'm saying the reader doesn't need to be spoon feed all of it. Make that 7k words as your author note, to help you write. let the reader know maybe 3k words of it, in parts.

Also be careful about slowly introducing the multiple facets of the system. Lots of xianxia that do it makes it less of a complex power system, and more of plot armor that the author only uses when it's convenient for the plot.

Good luck!

 

[Sergeandgreen]

I can only comment as a reader and not as an author. Beside all the point other people already said, my advice is: trim it. Trim the explanation. Often, novel with complex power system is just author explaining every tiny detail, even the obvious one. The reader is human, and can think of their own. Let them make the connection themselves based on explanation of the core function and some vague explaining on the detail.

Even with your complex system, I'm sure there's some part that is not really have that much impact on the overall system, the one that you can trim. I'm not saying you should simplify your system, I'm saying the reader doesn't need to be spoon feed all of it. Make that 7k words as your author note, to help you write. let the reader know maybe 3k words of it, in parts.

Also be careful about slowly introducing the multiple facets of the system. Lots of xianxia that do it makes it less of a complex power system, and more of plot armor that the author only uses when it's convenient for the plot.

Good luck!

The 7k words are an extra worksheet for myself where i just describe each stage, what abilities they give, how they are trained, how they affect toher stages etc. It's just for myself. I never planned to give that out as it is. It was just that while writing it I realized that it would be a lot to explain in the story, and wanted to share ideas with the others on how to do something like that in the best way.

Also, i hate plot armor. Stupid MCs deserve to die.

Well, with mine about 1/3 of it was "explained" as the hero realized what he could do, another third comes out when he is forced to prove he has actual magical ability, and the rest seeps out in bits and pieces as the story progresses.

Needing to prove your ability is a nice way, to introduce things. Thanks for the idea.
Battles are also a nice way to show what is possible. And reflecting such a battle can also be a good workaround.
Thank you.

 

[Rhaps]

For my story, explaining is redundant as it involves at least five different magic systems, plus other characters with their own magic systems exclusive to them.

The most I'd go for is tell the reader what a character can do and give a short explanation when something come up.

There is a system for crafting magic items, another system that does the same.

Nobody can actually cast magic, they just request the world to cast.

The MC use another magic system exclusive to her.

 

[Dieter]

I hope you ask yourself if your worldbuilding is actually complex, like life, and not complicated, like a jet-engine with all its parts. If its complex, then you can just tell it how it is and people will read it. If its complicated, then don't even bother. No one wants to know, even if its necessary to make heads or tails of what's going on in the story.

 

[Jemini]

I also have a pension for writing complex magic systems. Here's a super valuable tip I've learned and implemented in my writing.

Only explain the parts of your magic system that are IMMEDIATELY relevant. Like, explain it either right before, or even as it is being put into action.

This gets into something else. A "show don't tell" aspect. The audience actually finds the information a lot easier to absorb if they see the current principle in action when it's being explained.

I have an unreleased series I'm writing right now that uses a lot of fairy creatures. In my first chapter, my character is in school being teased about her lack of knowledge about the fey, and he teases that she wouldn't even know the difference between a goblin and a hobgoblin. This is actually a trick question, because there actually IS no difference in traditional fairy lore between a goblin and a hobgoblin. Or rather, the difference between the two is very literally the same as the difference between a Jap and a Japanese person. Goblin is actually a short-hand slur for hobgoblin, often used by people describing their more negative aspects.

This was discussed at the beginning of the chapter. I wove it in naturally as though it was just a part of the teasing, such that it seemed very natural. However, later on, at the end of the same chapter, my character encounters a whole group of hobgoblins. I'd already primed the audience with information about hobgoblins, and then I introduced them.

That's how you do it.

In cultivation settings, I've seen stuff like this done by someone talking about the level someone else has reached in their martial arts cultivation, worked in either in the form of talking in admiration, fear, or bragging. This introduces the concept of how inhuman this progression in one's cultivation makes a person. For things like multiple paths, you can have your character progressing on one of the paths, and then have to fight someone who is on a different path. At this time, the master can warn them to watch out for the differences between the path they are used to and the path this other person is on. Things like that.

 

[Arch9CivilReactor]

Breakdown what’s actually ‘relevant’ to the plot and characters while making sure that they only become aware of things when they properly study the system. There is no need to deep dive into paths that aren’t directly relevant as either an obstacle or barrier.

Complex systems are better disguised as simple systems. The more you expand on a seemingly ‘simple’ concept, the more the reader themselves will know if it’s complex or not. You telling them it’s complex is just a turn off.

The only exception is sci-fi stories where the high concept technology and the characters way of utilising it builds character. No one cares about the mage that mastered all magic, but they DO find the mage who overcame a weakness in his one particular magic intriguing.

Just remember that the character is more important than the system. No one would care how amazing the weapon is unless it said something about the person wielding it.

 

[Syringe]

Aside from what everyone's already said, you can make a visual/chart to make it much more easier to digest, and you could place it in your Glossary so people have an easy-to-access reference.

This is mine for example:

Spoiler: Power Scale Tier List

 

[CheertheSecond]

Easy. Explaining through multiple chapters.

Even with my system that is only 2000 words. I explained the first 300 words through the story arcs that covers 70+ chapters.

 

[RepresentingPride]

Read some Xianxia/Wuxia for reference, you will see that what @SailusGebel said was used almost every time to not infodumb those type of information.
You start in a small village/sect and grow little by little, at the beginning not everyone know what are upside this realm or that one etc. The character will learn it either by going on another sect or by traveling and coming accross those "expert" who are just some weakling to another sect or to the heavens, etc......

 

[Sergeandgreen]

Read some Xianxia/Wuxia for reference, you will see that what @SailusGebel said was used almost every time to not infodumb those type of information.
You start in a small village/sect and grow little by little, at the beginning not everyone know what are upside this realm or that one etc. The character will learn it either by going on another sect or by traveling and coming accross those "expert" who are just some weakling to another sect or to the heavens, etc......

Thank you for the idea but that was exactly what i didn't want to do.
I always thought it was just a convenient way for a mc to grow step by step and never meet an opponent he can't defeat. So i want to build a completely functioning society with mortals, cultivators, and immortals. (Immortals are so rare that the ascension of one is used as a measurement of time.) Meaning that while the top cultivators and immortals aren't in every city, every big sect will have a person just below the immortal realm. (Which is stage 9/10). My mc has to navigate around those powerful people and, if possible, use them against each other.
But i decided to make a cap on what about cultivation is common knowledge. So the names of the stages up to stage 4 are common knowledge, and anything above that is kind of guarded, as knowing it before hand might cause some newbies or even prodigies to try something stupid for eventual greater gains.

I think i have a lot of time to slowly explore anything beyond stage one, as he will spend a lot of time in the first stage to prepare for those after that. So i will be able to add things step by step. The first stage will be spoonfeed thought as he visits a sect and experiences what a normal cultivator has to learn. I want to show the readers what common knowledge is and how other people rise to power (mc is a demonic cultivator, so he his training is a little more bloody).