How the heck to market a story?

[AnneOminous]

Was also thinking of this. 370+ chapters and the story ongoing just looks looks more appealing to readers. Maybe that might help gain more traction? Just put intervals between the different books/volumes as that works for separators. I'm sure the remake will also bring some more viewers your way.

The downside is, I'm not sure how many casual Ranma watchers want a more serious fanfic switching the genre so seriously. Personally at least, I liked the show but I can't imagine the casual fanbase wanting only the female side as well as diving into all the serious trans stuff. It's a gimmick within a gimmick within a gimmick, you probably already know this by now. I'm sure you'll find some more viewers tho, don't commit to a 900,000 word rewrite. You'll drive yourself insane!


You do know some people use guy/dude/bruh irrelevant of gender, right? At least that's how it seemed to begin with...

That thing about the story being broken up is one of the main reasons I'm doing the rewrite - I basically felt like I owed them a rewrite so it didn't look like just a naked grab for more readership to catch the wave of the new anime. And I've wanted to clean up some stuff anyway - stuff my readers say they don't mind, but I as the author can't unsee. If it's going to be seen by just a few people, then I at least need to be completely at peace with what is there before I walk away. Problem is, for every person who says "breaking it up costs you readers" somebody else says "but I'm intimidated if I see something big." I feel like if I do it wrong, I squander a once in a lifetime chance - and I can't get any two people to agree on the "right" away so I have ZERO confidence in any of the meta around the relaunch. I don't know what's right - I just know that 2 years of my life will fade into obscurity if I don't guess right. So of course, I am going to everyone hat in hand begging for wisdom I clearly lacked the first time. And most folks either tell me to get a new hat, or they shit in the hat I have.

There's a particular thing with Ranma, and serious Ranma fic specifically - it is *very* popular in the trans community for obvious reasons, and a *lot* of trans people use it as a way to help them understand their feelings and crack their eggs. Especially given our current climate in America about one political party demonizing trans folks, I can imagine there's a lot of kids out there who are gonna find it on Netflix and realize they've found a place where they can come home. I want to be there for those kids.

I do know that people use dude, etc. that way - but when I say "hey that's kinda bugging me" after 5-6 posts in a row of it, and I just get back laughing emoji, it makes it pretty clear what the intent was from the beginning.

I do know that people use dude, etc. that way - but when I say "hey that's kinda bugging me" after 5-6 posts in a row of it, and I just get back laughing emoji, it makes it pretty clear what the intent was from the beginning.

Also, I can't imagine why there might be heightened gender sensitivity in a thread that is dozens of people laughing at me for trying to promote a trans-positive narrative.

 

[Tyranomaster]

I came in already frustrated from being denied the chance to advertise on Royal Road because it's a fanfic. I haven't meaningfully slept in a week. I was hoping for a "we're all in the same boat, here's one or two things that we tried that might marginally help" and it felt like right off the bat it was like "where do you get off wanting readers for your story?"

Nearly without fail the readers I have say it's among the best - if not the best - fanfiction they've ever read. Some say it's better than stuff like Worm. Probably 10% of my readers say they come from outside the Ranma fandom, and they have validated time and again that the story is welcoming to people without fandom knowledge. And so I find myself in this place where, impostor syndrome says "don't believe them, you're not that good, nobody outside Ranma wants it" and everybody loudly says "but yes you are" all over my discord, all over the comments. It puts me in this place where I am like "well okay let me try to do something real with this" and then the boot of reality comes crashing down without even giving it a chance, with the assumption that I must just suck, and the basic disrespect to repeatedly misgender me as the icing on top. I don't know how I managed to be cursed with both a giant ego and zero self confidence simultaneously, but here I am. I want to believe what the reviews and the readers say, but it's like "Well if I'm so good then where the hell is everybody? Is it a marketing thing? Is it a "hit the bottom of the well" thing? Do I believe the hype people are saying about me? Do I not?"

I'm in an extraordinarily vulnerable position here, eating anti anxiety meds like they're M&Ms, just to wade back out to get my teeth kicked in some more in the hopes of getting one or two nuggets of wisdom that will help me catch even 1% more of a wave I've waited my whole life for and will likely miss anyway.

This is the biggest, most ambitious thing I've done in my life. And I just want somebody to give a damn about it, and I don't know how anybody calls themself a writer or an artist of any kind, and doesn't understand that.

I get how you feel, but you need to also understand bubble feedback. I have people who tell me my story is literally their favorite of all time, and that it's what they've always been looking for. I do not, however, take that to mean it has reach outside of it's niche. It just means I know my target audience, and they're big fans of what I'm providing.

You have, across websites, maybe a few thousand readers, of the tens, if not hundreds of millions of active readers in the world. It'd be far more concerning if everyone who decided not to read your story kept constantly posting how much they hate it. Ultimately, you'll receive positive feedback from people who will love your story more than you love it. It's the nature of a widespread community.

That said, be very careful to properly analyze your own niche, and understand where your readers come from. Perspective is everything, and letting only the positive feedback get to you is just as bad as letting negative feedback get to you. Positive feedback can drive people to set themselves up for failure.

I'm going to ask you this, in all seriousness, based on your comment about taking anti-anxiety meds etc. IF you manage all this, get all this done, and start reposting it when the new Ranma comes out, and it flops, what will you do? Are you pushing yourself beyond your own limits, trying to achieve some ideal that a stream of positive feedback is driving you towards?

I ask because the trans community has a bad habit of ONLY giving positive feedback, leading to people essentially lying to themselves about things. Whether it be the quality of your work, or your own potential. I don't know your community, and I don't know your commenters. These are hypotheticals that you can answer for yourself. Maybe it's balanced feedback, I don't know. I do know, as an educator, that it's very cruel to tell someone to strive for something they have no hope of actually reaching.

Finding attainable goals, and meeting them, is what makes people happy. When you try for something impossible thinking you can do it, then fail, it hurts. It hurts even more because you start to resent the people who told you that you could do it, who you thought were your friends. Again, I don't know your community, and I don't know who's commenting, but be wary of taking overly positive feedback too greatly. You should always actually analyze things against reality itself.

 

[AnneOminous]

I get how you feel, but you need to also understand bubble feedback. I have people who tell me my story is literally their favorite of all time, and that it's what they've always been looking for. I do not, however, take that to mean it has reach outside of it's niche. It just means I know my target audience, and they're big fans of what I'm providing.

You have, across websites, maybe a few thousand readers, of the tens, if not hundreds of millions of active readers in the world. It'd be far more concerning if everyone who decided not to read your story kept constantly posting how much they hate it. Ultimately, you'll receive positive feedback from people who will love your story more than you love it. It's the nature of a widespread community.

That said, be very careful to properly analyze your own niche, and understand where your readers come from. Perspective is everything, and letting only the positive feedback get to you is just as bad as letting negative feedback get to you. Positive feedback can drive people to set themselves up for failure.

I'm going to ask you this, in all seriousness, based on your comment about taking anti-anxiety meds etc. IF you manage all this, get all this done, and start reposting it when the new Ranma comes out, and it flops, what will you do? Are you pushing yourself beyond your own limits, trying to achieve some ideal that a stream of positive feedback is driving you towards?

I ask because the trans community has a bad habit of ONLY giving positive feedback, leading to people essentially lying to themselves about things. Whether it be the quality of your work, or your own potential. I don't know your community, and I don't know your commenters. These are hypotheticals that you can answer for yourself. Maybe it's balanced feedback, I don't know. I do know, as an educator, that it's very cruel to tell someone to strive for something they have no hope of actually reaching.

Finding attainable goals, and meeting them, is what makes people happy. When you try for something impossible thinking you can do it, then fail, it hurts. It hurts even more because you start to resent the people who told you that you could do it, who you thought were your friends. Again, I don't know your community, and I don't know who's commenting, but be wary of taking overly positive feedback too greatly. You should always actually analyze things against reality itself.

That's a sober approach and I appreciate it.

I know what I am doing is not healthy. I exist on interactions like a vampire. It's the primary source of dopamine in my life. And I will freely admit that I am *terrified* of writing *the end* and having the spigot turned off. And that's a lot of what drives the "I need this to become an evergreen" motivation comes from. I have been pushed beyond my limits for six months, and I'm *tripling* down on that now trying to make something of this chance. My therapist knows about it, and until somebody comes up with a better plan, it's all I got. I've got one "make happy feels" button, and I am gonna mash it until it breaks.

If it flops... I will still finish the rewrite. I will still finish books 13-16 of the leading edge of the story. And then I will probably slink off to a quiet corner somewhere and not be heard of.

The hope thing is the problem - because I had convinced myself that there was no hope. When I published book 1 I didn't even know fanfiction.net had a comment feature. I was just archiving it - Anne-Ominously - for posterity. And then wave after wave - small but steady - of feedback kept telling me to keep going. And once I reached a place where I thought I plateaued, and spent months making peace with that, here comes the anime creator off the top rope with a tweet and changed the entire cosmos that my well exists in. And now I dont know if it's gonna get deeper, or wider, or neither - but I know I'm gonna regret and second guess it forever if I don't do EVERYTHING in my power to cast the best possible net. And if I still get no fish with that wide net, I'll be broken hearted but so be it. But at least I'll know I left it all on the field trying.

There are some people who give me feedback who I know are biased. But some of my best reviews - and most supportive comments when I am down on myself - are from people who have been notoriously harsh reviewers (not trans either, fwiw). People who are very well read and have not been shy at all about telling me when a chapter didn't land well, or when I'm slipping in quality and need to step it up.

 

[ACFoster99]

That thing about the story being broken up is one of the main reasons I'm doing the rewrite - I basically felt like I owed them a rewrite so it didn't look like just a naked grab for more readership to catch the wave of the new anime. And I've wanted to clean up some stuff anyway - stuff my readers say they don't mind, but I as the author can't unsee. If it's going to be seen by just a few people, then I at least need to be completely at peace with what is there before I walk away. Problem is, for every person who says "breaking it up costs you readers" somebody else says "but I'm intimidated if I see something big." I feel like if I do it wrong, I squander a once in a lifetime chance - and I can't get any two people to agree on the "right" away so I have ZERO confidence in any of the meta around the relaunch. I don't know what's right - I just know that 2 years of my life will fade into obscurity if I don't guess right. So of course, I am going to everyone hat in hand begging for wisdom I clearly lacked the first time.

First of all, there's your main problem. 2 years are NOT down the drain, even if you commit to a rewrite. This is coming from someone who genuinely dislikes huge parts of their own story and wishes things could've been done differently, not to the point of thinking it was a waste of time tho. You've got that content there and there's no reason for it to ever go, it's still a huge accomplishment in itself. Just because something isn't reaching as many people as you'd like doesn't make it a waste of time!

The main point is, if viewership is so important to you, then redoing 900,000 words isn't the way to go because you'll only displease yourself. If it's only for love and passion for writing, do it! If you want your writing to hit more of an audience, you play the field so to speak. The other commenters have expressed the latter point.

There's a particular thing with Ranma, and serious Ranma fic specifically - it is *very* popular in the trans community for obvious reasons, and a *lot* of trans people use it as a way to help them understand their feelings and crack their eggs. Especially given our current climate in America about one political party demonizing trans folks, I can imagine there's a lot of kids out there who are gonna find it on Netflix and realize they've found a place where they can come home. I want to be there for those kids.

Fair point, here's the thing with the trans genre tho. *Most* people who aren't trans have barely interest in reading stories that have that as a major point. It's the relatability side of things, it's why male MCs are far more popular on most sites and main picture of skimpy anime woman sell. Demographic and all that, how many men enjoy Twilight for example?

The point with this is, if you want to be there for those kids, then that works as well! It's just that you've got to sacrifice something, most likely being views from the people not interested in that stuff. You can find a balance, just it always comes down to what you want to write or what people want to read.

I do know that people use dude, etc. that way - but when I say "hey that's kinda bugging me" after 5-6 posts in a row of it, and I just get back laughing emoji, it makes it pretty clear what the intent was from the beginning.

This is the internet friend, you reveal something about yourself and someone's bound to poke at it lol. It's the same with siblings and such, most of the time it's meaningless. They mean nothing by it in the beginning and if you bite, then they'll see it as fair game.

 

[AnneOminous]

The thing is - I'd be okay if my community is mostly Ranma fans and trans people. My worry is that the latter category is bigger than the Ranma bubble and I feel like I have to essentially fill up this giant balloon so I can float high enough to be seen from outside the wall. In the absence of any alternative metric, it's just throw everything into making number go brr.

 

[ACFoster99]

The thing is - I'd be okay if my community is mostly Ranma fans and trans people. My worry is that the latter category is bigger than the Ranma bubble and I feel like I have to essentially fill up this giant balloon so I can float high enough to be seen from outside the wall. In the absence of any alternative metric, it's just throw everything into making number go brr.

You could look at it a different way, your content gets through to trans people more so maybe there's your target? It may not be the biggest of genres but it still exists and some do get popular, this site is pretty welcoming to most trans people as well. There's novels of this site alone with thousands of readers that are trans focused.

You need to lose the mindset that you've wasted your time tho, it's really not healthy. If you enjoyed writing it, then you spent 2+ years of your life doing something you enjoy. It may have cost a load but expensive hobbies are like that, writing is technically a hobby for 99.9% of people after all. You managed to complete several books worth of content and didn't call it quits when lots of authors give up after just a few chapters. Be proud of what you've accomplished.

 

[AnneOminous]

You could look at it a different way, your content gets through to trans people more so maybe there's your target? It may not be the biggest of genres but it still exists and some do get popular, this site is pretty welcoming to most trans people as well. There's novels of this site alone with thousands of readers that are trans focused.

You need to lose the mindset that you've wasted your time tho, it's really not healthy. If you enjoyed writing it, then you spent 2+ years of your life doing something you enjoy. It may have cost a load but expensive hobbies are like that, writing is technically a hobby for 99.9% of people after all. You managed to complete several books worth of content and didn't call it quits when lots of authors give up after just a few chapters. Be proud of what you've accomplished.

Mostly, I'm trying to figure out how to reach out to the wider trans community.

 

[ACFoster99]

Mostly, I'm trying to figure out how to reach out to the wider trans community.

At least on this site, I'm pretty certain most stories just use the tags *Transgender*, *Male to Female* or vice versa. Girls love and genderbender is also really popular so it must be the fanfic tag being the huge turn off.

It's just a number game really, let's say there's 1/10 people who read fan fics and then 1/100 who are trans. The number dilutes a lot unfortunately.

And they are out there. Less than 1 in 10 people comment as well so again, it's just a numbers game. I'd still recommend combining your story into one whole thing just for visibility sake more than anything else. The most popular stories on this site all have hundreds of chapters after all.

 

[HungrySheep]

To make an over the top comparison, say I made a really nice TV, and it was well priced. Then, I decide to shape the TV like Shrek's head. The TV works great, and even comes with all the Shrek movies preloaded in it. Sure, I'd get some people who are huge fans of the TV, and put it in their Shrek rooms. However, a vast majority of people just want a regular TV they can display in their living room. I'm then upset that people don't want to buy my better-than-average TV. People tell me that if I made it non-Shrek themed, it'd do better, but I don't want that. I want everyone to have a Shrek TV in their living room.

Edit: They even tell me I can keep the preloaded Shrek movies, they like that!

This is the situation we find ourselves in here.

Ayo, I'd buy that.

 

[Deleted member 84247]

This thread is still going on?

 

[AnneOminous]

This thread is still going on?

It is now.

 

[Deleted member 84247]

It is now.

Did you formulate a plan?

 

[AnneOminous]

Did you formulate a plan?

So far my intent is to continue with the original plan - hoping to find a few little ways to augment but nothing yet.

 

[HungrySheep]

This thread is still going on?

It was a long ass thread and the first one in author general, so I felt obligated to read through the entirety of it LMAO

Also to give my two cents on the actual subject of this thread:

I've written two novels that have been somewhat well-received by a decently sized audience. Both novels have also hit trending consistently, reaching #1 multiple times and generally hovering around #1-#5 depending on whatever game the algorithm wants to play that week. We do not know how the algorithm works. I do not know how the algorithm works.

However, I will say this (because no one else is brave enough to): the VAST majority of the readerbase on EVERY site has absolute hot TRRRRRRRRRRRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaAAaaAaaaaAaSH taste. It doesn't matter if you write the holy grail of fiction. The vast majority of the audience has been COMPLETELY BUKKAKE-BRAINED by LitRPG isekai whatever the fuck. And it doesn't even need to be written well.

That said, I am not saying I've written holy grails. Far fucking from it, in fact. I do not like my first novel at all despite the audience it received. My second novel I feel a bit better about, but it's certainly not something I feel proud of. There's so much I could've done better, but I digress.

The point is that how godly, genre-defying, fanfic-transcending, brain-blasting, or whatever your story is, it does not matter to the popular market. If you want to appeal to a larger market, you have to write for a larger market. The novel I am currently still working on is probably one of the best things I've written so far. I'm excited to share it once I've finally written enough chapters to start posting, but the reality of the situation is, it likely won't get anywhere NEAR as much readers as my previous two works, and I doubt it'll even reach trending.

Because the audience for such a novel is simply that small, not to mention I plan to release on a weekly schedule because I find I write a lot better when I'm not shitting out daily chapters. Even if the novel somehow does manage to get on trending, I highly doubt it'll pull in any substantial traffic due to its genre because again, quality doesn't matter to the readers. That's just a sad fact of the webserial market.

However, if your goal is just to get on trending, here are a few things you can do:

• This was already said by someone, but you should consider posting all your chapters under a single novel. People will rarely (which means never) click on sequels even if they are listed using the sequel function. By posting 3 separate volumes, you already lost traction. I recall you were going to do a reboot, so this is something to consider when doing that.
• Post daily chapters. Do not post more than that. Do not post less than that. Do not drop 10+ chapters on the reboot. Why? Because the site will automatically mark your novel as spam and destroy your chances of getting onto trending anytime in the near future.
• Reply to EVERY comment. I don't claim to know how the algorithm works, but I highly suspect it tracks some sort of engagement. Make sure the replies are at least a sentence long and are somewhat different in content to avoid the risk of being spam/bot flagged.
• Have a decent looking cover. Your covers so far are fine in my opinion, but my opinion is clearly not the opinion of the readers you want to reach. Most readers are looking for something with an anime girl on the cover. This will boost your visibility massively, trust me.
• Just be patient. This won't get you on trending INSTANTLY, but once you're there, maintain the routine and you will find yourself there often. It took me around 3 months to get my second novel on trending. My first hit trending in around a week, but that was because it was a LitRPG. Shit is built different.

Anyway, that's all I've got. Every day, I pray for readers to expand into other genres, but we're stuck with LitRPG system isekai. I cry.

 

[AnneOminous]

Three more months of daily chapters. I'm gonna break. I've been doing it for over a year and... nothing.
I have a new cover, new blurb, new tags. Rebuilding every chapter. Posting in one huge thing.

That spam filter algorithm is absolute trash. The dev team should be embarrassed.

 

[Tyranomaster]

That spam filter algorithm is absolute trash. The dev team should be emembarrassed.

I disagree. It's good and helps keep things regulated. It prevents people from gaming the view system by bulk posting. You don't want it because it specifically limits you from reposting your story on an anime release date, thus perpetually showing up on the front page.

You get 2 a day, so does someone else who wants to post that day.

 

[HungrySheep]

Three more months of daily chapters. I'm gonna break. I've been doing it for over a year and... nothing.
I have a new cover, new blurb, new tags. Rebuilding every chapter. Posting in one huge thing.

That spam filter algorithm is absolute trash. The dev team should be embarrassed.

I believe it was designed to prevent novels from hogging the Latest Updates column so that smaller novels would be able to reserve more visibility. I for one am grateful for the function because I do not think anyone would be able to keep up with AI novel spam. The epidemic hit Wattpad for a short while before it was addressed a while back.

 

[Deleted member 84247]

Post daily chapters. Do not post more than that. Do not post less than that. Do not drop 10+ chapters on the reboot. Why? Because the site will automatically mark your novel as spam and destroy your chances of getting onto trending anytime in the near future.

My only rebuttal is you don't need to post daily chapters. I have been posting weekly chapters, and for the past couple of months, I have been there most weeks at least once.

 

[HungrySheep]

My only rebuttal is you don't need to post daily chapters. I have been posting weekly chapters, and for the past couple of months, I have been there most weeks at least once.

That's super good to know! Thank you!

 

[Deleted member 84247]

That's super good to know! Thank you!

I would still recommend the first few chapters come out faster to build an initial audience and gain some momentum before switching to weekly.