How are YOU going to fix the genre you hate or dislike?

[laccoff_mawning]

Gods I dislike these types of people. If MC doesn't end story with A MINIMUM of 3 Lovers, you didn't write a Harem. I don't care how the Japs butchered the term, and fuck'em for doing so. You didn't write a Harem. It's like a pet peeve of mine.

As a harem hater, I must strongly disagree.

If a story is harem for everything but the last few chapters, in which the MC chooses a single lover, then 99% of that story's chapters are of the harem genre. If 99% of the story is a harem, then the story is a harem. The ending has little relevance to the determination of the genre.

I don't think there's any decent logic behind this statement tbh. I tried to think if this sort of idea would work with any other genre, but nope.

If a romance ends with a breakup, it's still a romance; just not a traditional one.
If a smut didn't have any smut on the last few chapters, guess what? It's still a smut.
If a litrpg or isekai ended with a guy returning to a normal world, nobody in their right mind would question if it's a litrpg/isekai or not.
Similarly, an isekai into a fantasy world is still a fantasy, even if the first chapter takes place on a non-fantasy world.

Give me one genre other than supposedly harem where the story can invoke all the stereotypical elements of that genre throughout 99% of it's pages but not be considered of that genre just because it doesn't end in the way you want/expect.

 

[LeilaniOtter]

I really don't like, and can't write "Mecha". In order for me to like it, I'd probably have to have a clueless girl be reincarnated into the body of a mechanized beast of some sort, and having to learn the complete guide to operating itself, what all it can do, step by step, like a Dummies Book. *^^*.

 

[Prince_Azmiran_Myrian]

I really don't like, and can't write "Mecha". In order for me to like it, I'd probably have to have a clueless girl be reincarnated into the body of a mechanized beast of some sort, and having to learn the complete guide to operating itself, what all it can do, step by step, like a Dummies Book. *^^*.

What if they get into a giant biomechanical suit?

 

[LeilaniOtter]

What if they get into a giant biomechanical suit?

Then I guess I would have to do even more research into a genre I hate. But for a million dollars, it'll be worth it. ?

 

[abu_nur]

I always hated cyberpunk, because i am not that into future Sci-fi and cyberpunk is the embodiment of all human features i hate. Mainly greed and an extremely unfair world idk. So if i had to actually write one i will have a different focus than usual. Most cyberpunk stories kinda happened in an America-ish future sitting. But what if i just made it in a third world country, juts like mine. I think i will have to focus more on the politics and despite the technology being there, the people aren't really benifiting from it. A story where the system got so corrupt and so automized by machines that i loses the urban focus of cyberpunk. Because in definition cyberpunk is just a dystopian future world that depends heavily on technology.

In my story the hero is born to humans. One that was driven out of thier homes by the machines that now did all the work to suck the land resources dry and feed it to the world powers. Maybe those people were driven into the desert. In the story the MC is totally oblivious to how the technology work because he lived all his life in absence of it. He is a muscle head who uses his instincts and has great survival abilities. He basically uses some sort of swrord too. He accidentally get shipped onto a cargo ship to the other side of the world, a first world country, after fending off some roaming drones. He meets a girl who is the opposite of him, she is an introvert, total social anxiety, allergic to sun everything. (I don't like making all my MCs buetiful so imma give her a total nerd looks). They work together so the MC can return to his home land. Along the way he discovers that technology infested world and get affected by it in ways, the girl also gets affected by his manners and ideals and slowly regain her confidence in herself along the journey. Ultimately i am making is a romance subplot and it will end with both of them in his home village after a journey of self discovery.

SEE NOW THAT'S BETTER FR!
Now i thought so hard about this. I am worrying someone will steal that idea Damn

 

[Gray_Mann]

As a harem hater, I must strongly disagree.

If a story is harem for everything but the last few chapters, in which the MC chooses a single lover, then 99% of that story's chapters are of the harem genre. If 99% of the story is a harem, then the story is a harem. The ending has little relevance to the determination of the genre.

Have to strongly agree to disagree. If you didn't end story with harem, it wasn't a harem. Will not budge on this.

 

[RepresentingWrath]

 

[Anonjohn20]

If you are a smartass you can skip this step and go straight to showing your superior intellect. For those who aren't midwits, stick with me for a little bit.

So a small mental experiment, mkay? Let's not go crazy over here. Let's assume there is a djin somewhere on the internet, or was it Robin Williams? Anyway, there is someone who PMs you. Now, you think, this is an AI scammer again! Fuck 'em clankers! ? But the person starts by saying, "I will give you 1 million dollars if you write this story." ?The trick is, this persons asks you to write a genre you really dislike or outrights hate. ?

Before you start let me elaborate a little bit further.

First things first, what is a genre? To make it easier for us let's just use SH's genre list. You can also add stuff like Kingdom Building stories, Korean academy stories, Japanese villainess\villain stories, and Chinese cultivation. What is NOT a genre? BDSM, futanari, netorare, blacksmith MC, vampires, and so on. In other words, tags and tropes.

Second part. Since smartasses left us way back, I will talk to you, yes you! ? Let us talk one-on-one, mano a mano, face to face. Let's not try to weasel our way of this curious predicament, mkay? Let's not say, "Well, I hate harem, since I have to write it, I will simply make it into a setting without MC actually having multiple lovers." Let's not. We all write, we all can play with words and stretch the definition of a term to the point it blows up like a balloon. Since this is a mental experiment made for fun, let's think of how to fix the genre while still respecting it.

Phew, can't believen I've already finished. Now I can't wait to read, like, three replies in this thread! Two of which are going to be smartasses saying how they would've made different rules, and one person saying the didn't understand what to do. Bring it on lads!

I wouldn't fix the genres I hate, because I'm not sure it's possible to do so. So for 1 million dollars I'd just give them what they asked for; in my case what I'd hate is a wuxia/xinxia fanfiction.

Draco Malfoy bumps into Harry Potter's shoulder. In a fit of rage Harry shouts, "You are courting death!" as he pulls out his wand and starts casting spell after spell. Since Draco isn't the main character, he just loses and dies without much effort. Despite this being the fourth Slytherin student Harry has slain this week, no one genuinely cares except the next person in line to be destroyed by Harry in the next chapter.

The genre is smut.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

So really, I would heavily christianize it instead of going the "free love" or perverted lust driven slop that the genre is known for.

Fair enough, the genre could use a bit more monogamy. Just, uh, time skip it to the point where they can procreate.

If a story is harem for everything but the last few chapters, in which the MC chooses a single lover, then 99% of that story's chapters are of the harem genre. If 99% of the story is a harem, then the story is a harem. The ending has little relevance to the determination of the genre.

A harem still involves many lovers. Most people will write a story where a bunch of characters are chasing after an MC, but if the MC doesn't reciprocate that love, then "harem" is the wrong word to use, and yet people do so anyway.

 

[VKnives]

I want to play along but I can't think of which genre I hate the most!
Looking at the list it's probably sports, as a full genre. I don't want to consider gender bender as a genre, that is odd.
I would make the sports series about the intense specific training and psychological toll on the characters, and why it matters to them. I would have to make it about some combat sport to give any more depth to it with my own expertise. It would be a lot of training montages and learning between fights. I would fix it by avoiding making anyone actually "the best" at most things, and never have winning/losing actually reflect their worth or whether they achieving happiness and what they need in life.
Then add lots of sex. That's how you make it entertaining even if you don't care about sports. lmao

 

[ElijahRyne]

If you are a smartass you can skip this step and go straight to showing your superior intellect. For those who aren't midwits, stick with me for a little bit.

So a small mental experiment, mkay? Let's not go crazy over here. Let's assume there is a djin somewhere on the internet, or was it Robin Williams? Anyway, there is someone who PMs you. Now, you think, this is an AI scammer again! Fuck 'em clankers! ? But the person starts by saying, "I will give you 1 million dollars if you write this story." ?The trick is, this persons asks you to write a genre you really dislike or outrights hate. ?

Before you start let me elaborate a little bit further.

First things first, what is a genre? To make it easier for us let's just use SH's genre list. You can also add stuff like Kingdom Building stories, Korean academy stories, Japanese villainess\villain stories, and Chinese cultivation. What is NOT a genre? BDSM, futanari, netorare, blacksmith MC, vampires, and so on. In other words, tags and tropes.

Second part. Since smartasses left us way back, I will talk to you, yes you! ? Let us talk one-on-one, mano a mano, face to face. Let's not try to weasel our way of this curious predicament, mkay? Let's not say, "Well, I hate harem, since I have to write it, I will simply make it into a setting without MC actually having multiple lovers." Let's not. We all write, we all can play with words and stretch the definition of a term to the point it blows up like a balloon. Since this is a mental experiment made for fun, let's think of how to fix the genre while still respecting it.

Phew, can't believen I've already finished. Now I can't wait to read, like, three replies in this thread! Two of which are going to be smartasses saying how they would've made different rules, and one person saying the didn't understand what to do. Bring it on lads!

For an action, I would focus on building up to the fights. I will also during the fights make each more of a puzzle to be solved or else lost, at least in equal fights, rather than throwing a bunch of goons at Pov characters. Each character must have a viable chance to lose an equal fight, and each loss, and victory, must have a consequence. Someone is attacked by a rabid dog, multiple of these then apply they scare it off, kill it, get killed, get injured, get seriously injured, injure the dog, seriously injure the dog, get rabies, etc. If the fight can be cut out with little change to either/any of the characters involved you should cut it out.

Gender Bender


Instead of changing their genders, they turn into femboys.


Rom-Com

Make the protagonist less dense than a black hole, don’t take 100 chapters just to hold hands, and avoid unnecessary love triangles-nya

Make the protagonist denser than a black hole, every time a love interest tries to pursue them reality collapses.
….. Anyways…..For dystopia, make it less of a set dressing and more of an actual character/a thing that informs and is informed by how the the characters act. Quite dislike this one, so I don’t really know how to actually fix it from my perspective. I mean I do technically have a story idea somewhere that has a dystopian setting, and I think it was on the latter half of the story ideas list I recently posted. So I technically, technically, already have a plan for a story like this.
…. As for adventure, I would take the Mushishi approach not the Lord of the Rings one.

 

[LuoirM]

I would've bend the rules totally

 

[V8485]

I've actually been trying to do this with my novel right now.

I won't say I hate isekai, but I was constantly disappointed by how generic all of them were so, I created my own.

With character depth, an incredibly dark story (did that by accident), no harem, and no overpowered MC.

Just a sad bastard with a gun.

So that what I would do.

 

[laccoff_mawning]

Have to strongly agree to disagree. If you didn't end story with harem, it wasn't a harem. Will not budge on this.

Thank you for the logical argument. I see that your opinion is backed by none other than the most ironclad logical principles, with absolutely no emotional involvement whatsoever.

A harem still involves many lovers. Most people will write a story where a bunch of characters are chasing after an MC, but if the MC doesn't reciprocate that love, then "harem" is the wrong word to use, and yet people do so anyway.

Often, whether the MC reciprocates or not is unclear until near the end of the book. So we still have the same problem, but in reverse. Let's consider books in which the MC doesn't clearly reciprocate. Then this would imply 99% of the book isn't a harem until it's clear that he does, in fact, reciprocate. Does this mean such a book isn't a harem even if it does have a polygamous ending?

The problem still stands: it's not logical to base the defining characteristic of a genre at the end of a book. Whatever criteria we use has to be filled from near the start. Hence, It seems reasonable for the genre to take the more colloquial usage of the term.


With all that out of the way, if I had to write a harem story myself, I'd want to write it in a way that features all the downsides of harems, portraying it as a source of constant conflict rather than presenting it as some sort of accomplishment. As the story goes on, the harem would become larger and more dissatisfied until it eventually splits and falls apart. The MC, being treated as an outcast, then has to bear the consequences of his actions. Finally, the story would end with the MC apologising to the first of his former lovers, who eventually forgives him and the both of them live happily ever after.

 

[Gray_Mann]

Thank you for the logical argument. I see that your opinion is backed by none other than the most ironclad logical principles, with absolutely no emotional involvement whatsoever.

Glad we see eye to eye in this instance, at least.

 

[Anonjohn20]

whether the MC reciprocates or not is unclear until near the end of the book.

Not really. You can read mangas like Rosario Vampire or Nisekoi (and many others) and you'll see the MC dodging most of the hoes left and right until the end, where he chooses 1, and yet these stories are marked as harem when they are not, hence Gray_Mann's point.

The problem still stands: it's not logical to base the defining characteristic of a genre at the end of a book

Sure, but there is a clear distinction between "harems," where all the hoes share an MC, and "love triangles," where the hoes fight with each other over the MC's affection. Yet the Japs will mark the love triangles as harems.

 

[DireBadger]

I don't like OP characters, especially MC.

Because then it becomes paramount for their character and personality to grow instead.

And as long time reader, good luck finding an author who can actually do that.

Except you have to consider the premise of the story. If it is NOT a power fantasy, where the MC's struggles are education, social acceptance, romance, mystery, or even political, their 'power level' may be almost irrelevant. Does the power to wipe out an entire planet really matter when you are trying to get to the bottom of why your tribe was murdered?

It's a matter of focus. If superman were more of a detective, or struggled with understanding human psychology, his stories would be much more interesting.

 

[Gray_Mann]

Sure, but there is a clear distinction between "harems," where all the hoes share an MC, and "love triangles," where the hoes fight with each other over the MC's affection. Yet the Japs will mark the love triangles as harems.

Even love triangles are incorrect because that implies only 2 lovers, whereas harem means 3 or more. Damn Japan muddied up the waters real badly.

 

[Anonjohn20]

Even love triangles are incorrect because that implies only 2 lovers

"Love triangle" just implies a rivalry of lovers, despite most of them involving 2 people fighting over 1 person. It doesn't necessarily stop at 2 people.

 

[NotaNuffian]

Even love triangles are incorrect because that implies only 2 lovers, whereas harem means 3 or more. Damn Japan muddied up the waters real badly.

"Love triangle" just implies a rivalry of lovers, despite most of them involving 2 people fighting over 1 person. It doesn't necessarily stop at 2 people.

When I first heard the term "love triangle' after so long, my initial thought isn't Person A is loved by both B & C and is unable to commit to either.

My first thought was that and person B and person C might be freaky with each other.

Then my second thought is A loves B but not loves C, B loves C but not loves A and C love A but not loves B.

 

[Anonjohn20]

When I first heard the term "love triangle' after so long, my initial thought isn't Person A is loved by both B & C and is unable to commit to either.

My first thought was that and person B and person C might be freaky with each other.

Then my second thought is A loves B but not loves C, B loves C but not loves A and C love A but not loves B.

You're not wrong in that the term's phrasing was poor; if person B and person C are not also doing some loving, then it should be a love V, not a love triangle. That being said, there are only so many words in our language to describe the actions caused by hormones.