For you what makes a Villian, a good villian

[Representing_Tromba]

You don't have to relate or sympathize with a villain, if you hate it and want it dead, then the author write it right too. To relate or sympathize with a villain mean it's mostly a 'sad back story' villain.

I hope this doesn't come off as rude but did you not read the part about it being logical? It doesn't have to be relatable but I want to at least be able to logically consider the arguments of the villain. Whether that argument is as simple as money and power, it can at least be logically seen as a motive. I don't want any of this I'm a villain because it's fun crap. What was the trigger to make them a villain or what mental disorder can explain their actions?

Just because they're relatable doesn't mean it has to be sad either. They could have been a cashier or some retail employee that snapped and decided to become a villain. At the very least, it feels realistically motivated. It could have been one bad day after the other, or hell, they could have just been so OCD that they swore to make the perfect world. Still relatable as heck. I can't agree with it but it at least makes sense.

 

[georgelee5786]

For me, actually smart and unapologetically malicious. No justification or emotional backstory, he's just full of malice and desires to see his goal through no matter the cost

 

[Representing_Tromba]

But what if the villain is, for example, a sociopath? You won't understand them logically, right? That's the point of disorders, behavior can be illogical. And what if it isn't announced that this villain is a sociopath? I understand that it is really hard to write such a character and make them believable, and people will fudge it up, but I just want to hear your thoughts about it.

But you can understand it logically. Because they are a sociopath they aren't living under regular logical norms. Thus, it is logical to assume that they will be illogical. They won't understand the emotional ramifications of their actions but their actions will take emotionally devoid logical steps. Research into sociopaths has shown that they'll usually act in similar manners. They are hard to write but that's what makes them so enjoyable to read.

 

[ThrillingHuman]

I just noticed it's in SH discussion instead of Author General.

I hope this doesn't come off as rude but did you not read the part about it being logical? It doesn't have to be relatable but I want to at least be able to logically consider the arguments of the villain. Whether that argument is as simple as money and power, it can at least be logically seen as a motive. I don't want any of this I'm a villain because it's fun crap. What was the trigger to make them a villain or what mental disorder can explain their actions?

Just because they're relatable doesn't mean it has to be sad either. They could have been a cashier or some retail employee that snapped and decided to become a villain. At the very least, it feels realistically motivated. It could have been one bad day after the other, or hell, they could have just been so OCD that they swore to make the perfect world. Still relatable as heck. I can't agree with it but it at least makes sense.

I feel the question of 'why are they a villain?' (as in, why do we even think it's a villain in the first place) is a more important question than 'why are they a villain?' (as in, what motivation do they have for being a villain).

 

[RepresentingWrath]

But you can understand it logically. Because they are a sociopath they aren't living under regular logical norms. Thus, it is logical to assume that they will be illogical. They won't understand the emotional ramifications of their actions but their actions will take emotionally devoid logical steps. Research into sociopaths has shown that they'll usually act in similar manners. They are hard to write but that's what makes them so enjoyable to read.

What I meant is, how are you going to understand a character is a sociopath? Maybe it was a bad example, since sociopaths are relatively more popular than other disorders. What I mean is, you won't have their psychological evaluations right before you eyes. What if there is some kind of disorder, but other characters and even author never say that this villain has a disorder?

 

[Representing_Tromba]

What I meant is, how are you going to understand a character is a sociopath? Maybe it was a bad example, since sociopaths are relatively more popular than other disorders. What I mean is, you won't have their psychological evaluations right before you eyes. What if there is some kind of disorder, but other characters and even author never say that this villain has a disorder?

It could be shown through various character traits that on their own aren't inherently bad, maybe a bit concerning, but enough to make the characters worry. Then make it a big reveal. It's part of the reason why disorders of different kinds are so hard to write. It requires a lot of subtext.

Plus, all the stuff I've already said is personally biased as the question is asking for what we personally think makes a good villain so what I say isn't the definition of a good villain. It's just what I like to see in what I consider a good villain.

 

[Whoops]

Depends if the villain is the protagonist or the antagonist of the story.
For a protagonist the most important is probably the reason he's the villain, something relatable or at least understandable. "I was born a cunt and now hate everything" doesn't really work. I think Ainz from Overlord is a good villain.

For antagonists it doesn't matter much to me personally. It can be as simple as "he killed my dead wife's dog" or just a mysterious name. As long as it moves the protagonist forward its fine. Not every villain needs to be a mastermind.

 

[RepresentingWrath]

Plus, all the stuff I've already said is personally biased as the question is asking for what we personally think makes a good villain so what I say isn't the definition of a good villain. It's just what I like to see in what I consider a good villain.

True. Still, it was interesting to hear your thoughts. Thank you for sharing.

 

[Representing_Tromba]

I just noticed it's in SH discussion instead of Author General.

I feel the question of 'why are they a villain?' (as in, why do we even think it's a villain in the first place) is a more important question than 'why are they a villain?' (as in, what motivation do they have for being a villain).

Societal norms, cultural norms, and a from what I believe, an ethical and moral understanding that is preprogrammed into the psyche.

 

[RepresentingPride]

I hope this doesn't come off as rude but did you not read the part about it being logical? It doesn't have to be relatable but I want to at least be able to logically consider the arguments of the villain. Whether that argument is as simple as money and power, it can at least be logically seen as a motive. I don't want any of this I'm a villain because it's fun crap. What was the trigger to make them a villain or what mental disorder can explain their actions?

Just because they're relatable doesn't mean it has to be sad either. They could have been a cashier or some retail employee that snapped and decided to become a villain. At the very least, it feels realistically motivated. It could have been one bad day after the other, or hell, they could have just been so OCD that they swore to make the perfect world. Still relatable as heck. I can't agree with it but it at least makes sense.

doesn't come rude, and I did read it, it's just for me when you said 'logically' I take out the money or power since most consider this bland and not logical to world domination.

 

[ThrillingHuman]

Societal norms, cultural norms, and a from what I believe, an ethical and moral understanding that is preprogrammed into the psyche.

No, I mean that if you intend to make an evil character (villains are evil by definition) you obviously have to show the error of their ways. They have to fail in some way so that the reader would see that "hm, I, indeed, do not want to be like them", even if the villain in question is incredibly charismatic and likeable.
Why do you have to have the villain fail? Can't evil win? Because evil is defined by the author himself. If the author decides that being ruthless and cunning is a virtue, then a ruthless and cunning character will not be a villain, but a virtuous character instead. In other words, being evil = being unvirtuous, being flawed. By introducing a villain, the author introduces a system of morality. By defeating a villain, they commend a virtue or show a sin to the readers.
Doing so in a natural way, without being preachy or forced, is the real point of writing villains.
Explaining why a villain became who they were is thus of, at most, secondary level of importance. You don't need to explain why somebody lacks virtue.

 

[J_Chemist]

 

[Ilikewaterkusa]

In world of Novels, movies and stories we have seen several types of villains, they are for the most part an inseprable part of the story,

But unfortunately 90% villains are being villain for the sake of being villain, one dimensional characters who are there just for MC to stomp on, and their reason for being the bad guy is more pathetic as most of the times it would be their egos or they have a shitty attitude in general, or just wanna conquer/destroy the world.

that's just one side though, there are also times when villains stopped being just a villain but something more, there are times when villains character is so well done that you even as reader get freaking terrified of him (for me personally it's Amon from LOTR, Mf terrorised my nights, would like to hear who is yours)

There are villains with ideals, morals and his unique way of conduct and ambition

Villains who is actually not a villain if we look at it in broader way, but actually a dude who thought he was doing the right thing for greater good. (Thanos for example)

Villains who are actually villains but is so damn freaking cool you can't help but mark the guy to your favourite list (do you have one, the do share the name)

That brings me back to my question what makes a Villian, a good villian or a compelling one

So that brings me to my main question, for you, what makes a Villian, a good villian

Otto Apocalypse. A battle to restore that which has been lost against the natural forces of the world.

 

[Agentt]

Just give me an evil villian. I'm tired of morally ambiguous ones, or one's which have a backstory. Don't even make the villain a psychopath or a crazy person. I just want a supervillain who is just bad. That's it.


I probably have this view since I was practically raised reading isekais lol

 

[Deleted member 84247]

Just give me an evil villian. I'm tired of morally ambiguous ones, or one's which have a backstory. Don't even make the villain a psychopath or a crazy person. I just want a supervillain who is just bad. That's it.


I probably have this view since I was practically raised reading isekais lol

Sometimes a story just needs a character so hateable like King Joffrey.

 

[RepresentingPride]

Sometimes a story just needs a character so hateable like King Joffrey.

poor actor was so good to give a hateable character that he had received several death letters from GOT fans.

 

[Agentt]

poor actor was so good to give a hateable character that he had received several death letters from GOT fans.

Ahh, that's immature of them...

There are a few more cases of some actors just getting so many villain roles a lot of people genuinely believe they have sadistic tendencies.

 

[KuruKinaar]

I like when Villains have realistic characteristics to them, like liking silly things or have relatable experiences and or personality traits. I also think they are good when their purpose for their ways are valid, even if it's valid through their eyes. Backstory and the glimpse through their experience is good to have.

I think there's a lot of books I have read and rolled my eyes at the bad guy because it always seems to obvious or cilice how they're written. They have no uniqueness besides "grr I'm bad, I want things my way, blah blah blah..."

There was one book I read that was the MC and you didn't know they were the bad guy and lying the entire time until the last page of the book. Like that messed me up and book scored high on my like list. It was unique to follow them through their life experience and such.

 

[Flash_Nuke]

A reasonable villain, to the point where you would want to strangle the MC for being too naive to even go against them. I just enjoy reading logical thought processes, even for side characters and villains.

I second this opinion. A good villain for me is the one who is in the wrong and you know it but his stand so well that he don't need to convince for you to doubt the hero's action. (Also my fav villains are, coincidentally Amon from LOTM and the the Dead king from a practical guide to be evil)

 

[Lodur]

A villain whose reasoning are reasonable.

What is "reasonable" for you is not necessarily reasonable for other person and vice versa. For an egocentric person their personal well-being is very reasonable. Often at the expense of everyone else's well-being. After all, there is no anyone dearer to nearly everybody than he/she himself/herself. If you add a lack of empathy and an innate or acquired disrespect for the lives of others, you have the material for a 100% villain with more than logical motivation.