English Rule Snobs

[bulmabriefs144]

Sorry, I'm gonna rant. So anyway, I was looking at the word "sorceror" as opposed to "sorcerer," and it says that it's a common misspelling rather than a spelling variant. And then it occurred to me, who actually decides such things? If the something is commonly spelled that way, why isn't the public's usage important? Why do some small group of snobs get to decide? And why do they get to decide "you can't a sentence with but or and." But actual sentences in conversations do start with such things! Shouldn't English grammar be based on a healthy mix of what looks right and what people use? It very much shouldn't be based on some back room decision of academia. Emperor and chancellor all refer to positions of honor or authorIty. And when you have mastered high level magic, you deserve to be called "sorcerer" or "sorceror". I think the reason they insist it's wrong is because the female word ending is always sorceress. They use the word aviator as a model. Sorceror would then have a female variant of sorcerix, supposedly. Uhhhh, except emperor becomes empress. English does allow for words to have irregular endings. There's also the whole annoying woke politics about grammar being racist, that's even worse, as instead of simply loosening the rules, it wants to make a social issue about these things. No, if the public generally spells it wrong (so long as the new spelling doesn't look terrible) you simply offer it as a variant, with no griping about race relations. Anyway, what does everyone find an annoying convention in English, that should change, but seems to persist because of English rule people? Besides the spelling of sorcerer (and 'dgm' words like judgement... see how the 'e' there nicely breaks up the word?), my major gripe is when in movies the say "This is she" on the phone. No, "This is her." Subject , verb, object. No special rule about 'to be ' verbs.

 

[RepresentingWrath]

What is your take on skibidi, rizz, and other common language words?

 

[ThrillingHuman]

you can't start a sentence with but or and

 

[ACertainPassingUser]

And then it occurred to me, who actually decides such things?

The one who made the English dictonary, and the one with the most power to maintain them.

It really depends whether you're talking about USA English or UK British.

 

[Representing_Tromba]

Every language has grammar and spelling rules. English just happens to have a a lot of them. that is just how it is.

 

[ArchlordZero]

We do it not for ourselves, but to prevent godzilla from having a stroke.
Have you ever thought of that?
No. You only think of yourself.

 

[ImaMelonFarm]

Their our know rules inn English.

 

[LilRora]

Most grammar rules are more about literature and official texts than about casual usage of a language. In regards to literature, it is partially arbitrary and sometimes doesn't make much sense, it's often purposefully broken to achieve some specific effects, and generally a lot of times it's easy to disagree whether something is correct or not.

The official usage of a language, however, matters a lot. When speaking and writing casually, a lot of things can be passed off because they're understandable, but when you're doing things officially in some manner, you need certainty things are not subject to interpretation, or at least as little of it as possible, and are broadly applicable.

And second related thing, remember rules like this are always some sort of generalization. The fact one thing is considered correct and the other isn't doesn't mean it isn't or wasn't used, but that something had to be settled and for some reasons it landed on the first one. This is where a lot of that subjectivity comes into play, but it isn't really something we can control.

Personally, I don't think trying to regulate informal language in any manner is a good idea, but formal language has to be because of what it is. Sorcerer doesn't really fall under formal language, but the distinction is often vague at best.

 

[melchi]

As long as the message received and the message intended is communicated clearly, and effectively than everything else is secondary.

A lot of "Rules" are routinely broken. Like I read a book translated form Portugal-language that had paragraphs that were all one sentence. It was weird, but he pulled it off somehow. Would not advise trying to use that technique though.

 

[AnonUnlimited]

A lot of "Rules" are routinely broken.

I feel attacked.

 

[RepresentingWrath]

I feel attacked.

?

 

[CharlesEBrown]

It all goes back to the Norman Invasion of England. The French-raised new rulers of the island were unhappy that not only did they have trouble communicating with the locals, the locals in one area had trouble talking to some of their neighbors and decided to write the first English dictionaries. They, being typical upper class French, snobbily decided that the spellings were exactly what they heard, so we wound up with spellings like rough, plough, gouge, gauge, rogue, rouge because that was what they heard. Except when it came to food animals - there, the animal usually kept the native name, perhaps softened a little, so chicken, cow, sheep - but the food item took on the French word or was derived from it - beef (boeuf), poultry (pullet), mutton (mouton). Since then, the most arrogant spelling or pronunciation was the one deemed "correct" by academics. Sometimes they grudgingly accept "alternate spellings" and create new dialects for widely deviant pronunciations...

 

[Navillus]

English is a language that is confusing, convoluting and baffling... I only know English but I don't even think I am fluent in it.

 

[laccoff_mawning]

But... who pronounces "sorcerer" as "sor-cer-or"? isn't it just obviously "sor-cer-er"?

Edit: It's also perfectly acceptable to start a sentence with "but" or "and"; It's just redundant and doesn't need to be added.

 

[theInmara]

The rules that you are complaining about will be different depending on which book you look in and who it was written and published by.

Dictionaries and style guides published in the UK are going to say something different than dictionaries and style guides published in the U.S.

And even within a single country, dictionaries and style guides are not going to completely agree with each other.

Talk to a linguist, however, and you will likely be told that there are no rules, only cultural norms that change and can only be documented. Except when you're France. France gets to make the rules for French that is spoken within France.

 

[beast_regards]

First truth of the Internet. Spell it however you like, your literature professors would hate you either way. They aren't fond of fantasy, anyway.

 

[tiaf]

Most grammar rules are more about literature and official texts than about casual usage of a language. In regards to literature, it is partially arbitrary and sometimes doesn't make much sense, it's often purposefully broken to achieve some specific effects, and generally a lot of times it's easy to disagree whether something is correct or not.

The official usage of a language, however, matters a lot. When speaking and writing casually, a lot of things can be passed off because they're understandable, but when you're doing things officially in some manner, you need certainty things are not subject to interpretation, or at least as little of it as possible, and are broadly applicable.

And second related thing, remember rules like this are always some sort of generalization. The fact one thing is considered correct and the other isn't doesn't mean it isn't or wasn't used, but that something had to be settled and for some reasons it landed on the first one. This is where a lot of that subjectivity comes into play, but it isn't really something we can control.

Personally, I don't think trying to regulate informal language in any manner is a good idea, but formal language has to be because of what it is. Sorcerer doesn't really fall under formal language, but the distinction is often vague at best.

Imagine there were no grammar rules when learning a new language.

Also OP: you do not need to save paper on the net so use paragraphs.

 

[QuercusMalus]

Sorry, I'm gonna rant. So anyway, I was looking at the word "sorceror" as opposed to "sorcerer," and it says that it's a common misspelling rather than a spelling variant. And then it occurred to me, who actually decides such things?

Plebian. The correct spelling is Sourcerer.

 

[beast_regards]

Plebian. The correct spelling is Sourcerer.

Copyrighted :)

 

[3guanoff]

Prescriptivists. Any language has them.
And look at any older English work to see that rules change.

Take the King James Bible; every other sentence starts with "and".
Random example:

Gen 18:8-10 And he took butter, and milk, and the calf which he had dressed, and set it before them; and he stood by them under the tree, and they did eat. ¶And they said unto him, Where is Sarah thy wife? And he said, Behold, in the tent. And he said, I will certainly return unto thee according to the time of life; and, lo, Sarah thy wife shall have a son. And Sarah heard it in the tent door, which was behind him.

As a writer, there are different style guides to choose from. Yet even these style leave room for differing opinions. If you subscribe to any copyediting mailing lists, you will have the pleasure of routinely witnessing such arguments.

If you want to use the word sorceror, do it! You are a self-publishing writer of fiction and entitled to developing your own style guide. You are not submitting to a journal or a publisher.
There is also the option of having an in-universe reason for the difference: perhaps your work's sorcerors differ from the plain stereotypicial sorcerer.