Do you think Scribblehub should ban ai generated novels?

[Deleted member 68927]

Why ban it? A tag will be just fine. Art is Art, and if some people can't make art any other way, then, why not? I, personally, can't draw, but I create AI art to support my stories. It brings them to life, and it helps me remember what I wrote about. It brings readers to my stories too. Banning is not the answer. And SH is a free to read site. It is not as if the people are making money out of these novels, right? But I do agree, that a bit of warning for the reader is a good thing. I add the ai tag to all of my pictures. It brings honesty to the process.

 

[RinDes]

To be honest, some human-written stories found on sites like this one, feel like they were created by an early stage AI that malfunctioned upon writing the first half of a chapter. Lacking in both heart and soul, I think it'd be somewhat difficult, at times, to truly distinguish the real from the machine made. Someone could very well share creative writing with an AI, and create a story that falls somewhere between both.

All I can say, is that AI generated art and writing feels like cheating: it takes away our ability to challenge our mind, to acknowledge our flaws and weaknesses, and personally work on how to improve ourselves. Talent, skills, creativity and imagination are not things that can be created by a machine: these are developed and honed through human experiences, feelings and emotions that can be felt through a brush stroke or few words.

So if some people wish to depend on AI to create something, let them: in the end, they're only cheating themselves. And I don't believe AI is a proper tool, or solution to self improvement.

But that's just my opinion, people are free to do as they please, so as long as humanity remains above, and can still be felt.

Kindly, Rin.

 

[laccoff_mawning]

It’s just another tool.

Now, the problem with this approach is that copy+paste is also a tool. The problem is how we use it and whos work do we use it on :P

I guess it depends on how people use A.I.

Im fine with either creating a tag or ban. Theres no harm in tagging it and it allows people to filter if they want to or not. Itwould probably be the safest way to avoid/deal with future controvery. until a proper decision on banning it or keeping it comes.

The main problem I see is that it shouldn't be monetised.

 

[foxtrotter]

From what I've seen so far from stories that were reported, you can usually tell that it's an AI novel if:

• Characters changes from "he" to "she" occasionally
• Character names randomly changes
• Sentences doesn't connect well

There's probably a lot more but that's just what I can remember from the top of my head.

There are certain words/phrases AI loves to use as well e.g.,:

• vast expanse of x (eg sky, grass, etc)
• cacophony
• tinged with a mixture of x and y (eg sadness, sorrow, etc)
• whirlwind of x and y (eg emotions, doubt, confusion etc)
• mischievous/playful glint
• 4-5 sentence paragraphs throughout (AI doesn't like to use single sentence paragraphs)
• Always using different speech verbs (AI doesn't like to repeat "said")
• Adjectives galore
• Not having just paragraphs of dialogue sometimes:

Human writer:
"Hi"
"What's up"
"Someting."
"That thing."

AI:
"Hi," he greets, and then some paragraphs of text.
"What's up" he responded, paragraph of text, etc
"Something," paragraph of text etc


Good example of AI is this story (author probably writes some of the dialogue himself, but rest seems heavily AI generated): https://www.scribblehub.com/read/829460-grass-story/chapter/841697/

Kusa's pout deepened, clearly not pleased with the response. "Humph... you just didn't experience it," she countered, her tone a mixture of faux offense and amusement.

Keine's reply held a hint of mischief. "I have, and I use a wooden stick just to knock you out," she revealed, her eyes twinkling with a playful glint.

Mokou, who had been the subject of Kusa's affections, chimed in with a smirk. "See? Even Keine agrees," she teased, clearly enjoying the banter.

Kusa seemed to be pondering something as she gazed thoughtfully into the distance. "Am I that weird when there's no moon?" she mused aloud, her voice carrying a touch of curiosity.

Keine's response was both enigmatic and cautionary. "Who knows? But I do know that you mustn't be approached when there's no moon," she warned, her gaze locking onto Kusa with a hint of seriousness.

 

[Cipiteca396]

There are certain words/phrases AI loves to use as well e.g.,:

• vast expanse of x (eg sky, grass, etc)
• cacophony
• tinged with a mixture of x and y (eg sadness, sorrow, etc)
• whirlwind of x and y (eg emotions, doubt, confusion etc)
• mischievous/playful glint
• 4-5 sentence paragraphs throughout (AI doesn't like to use single sentence paragraphs)
• Always using different speech verbs (AI doesn't like to repeat "said")
• Adjectives galore

Human writer:
"Hi"
"What's up"
"Someting."
"That thing."

AI:
"Hi," he greets, and then some paragraphs of text.
"What's up" he responded, paragraph of text, etc
"Something," paragraph of text etc

I'm not an AI... Right?

 

[AliceShiki]

Human writer:
"Hi"
"What's up"
"Someting."
"That thing."

AI:
"Hi," he greets, and then some paragraphs of text.
"What's up" he responded, paragraph of te

For the record, it is very common to have description woven in-between dialogue in western novels.

Sometimes you just go with quick back and forths when the situation calls for it, but I definitely do not see this as the norm.

That said, different environments lead to different structures. Japanese webnovels commonly have back and forth dialogue with no description in-between, for example, so people who use those novels as their inspiration may also do that more often.

Still, I think it's hard to use this as a tell for AI writing, since human writers do this all the time.

Always using different speech verbs (AI doesn't like to repeat "said")

Does anybody like to repeat "said"?

Honestly, when I'm translating novels from Japanese, which don't have speech markers at all and it ends up being up to me to add them, I keep on trying to juggle as many of them as possible to make things less repetitive.

When writing I usually try avoiding situations where I even need to write the "[person] said" kind of thingy, but... As I don't have this luxury when translating, I at least try making the speech markers not feel overly repetitive.

Feels weird to use this one as an AI tell either.

I don't have much to comment on the rest of your post, but those points in particular felt really weird to me.

 

[Deleted member 84247]

I made a thread about this, but the consensus of the people is different than majorly successful authors like Brandon Sanderson. They tend to use only "said" and "asked" when they use dialogue tags instead of action tags. While WN writers tend to use more words such as "grumbled", "grunted", "quipped", "pondered", etc.

Writing - Dialogue Tags

After watching a few videos about dialogue tags, I found that the consensus of the authors was that you shouldn't try to be fancy with them when they are needed. Basically, you should mostly use he/she said/asked instead of exclaimed, proclaimed, inquired, etc. I am curious to know how you use...

forum.scribblehub.com

For the record, it is very common to have description woven in-between dialogue in western novels.

Sometimes you just go with quick back and forths when the situation calls for it, but I definitely do not see this as the norm.

That said, different environments lead to different structures. Japanese webnovels commonly have back and forth dialogue with no description in-between, for example, so people who use those novels as their inspiration may also do that more often.

Still, I think it's hard to use this as a tell for AI writing, since human writers do this all the time.

Does anybody like to repeat "said"?

Honestly, when I'm translating novels from Japanese, which don't have speech markers at all and it ends up being up to me to add them, I keep on trying to juggle as many of them as possible to make things less repetitive.

When writing I usually try avoiding situations where I even need to write the "[person] said" kind of thingy, but... As I don't have this luxury when translating, I at least try making the speech markers not feel overly repetitive.

Feels weird to use this one as an AI tell either.

I don't have much to comment on the rest of your post, but those points in particular felt really weird to me.

I meant to quote you @AliceShiki

 

[dummycake]

I use ChatGPT quite often to correct my grammar or to find a better way to write something, and every time there's a dialogue without "she said" or anything, it tried to add it. It's quite frustrating but it still helps me a lot.

 

[AliceShiki]

meant to quote you @AliceShiki

For the record, editing an @ or quote into a post won't trigger an alert~

I do check every thread in this subforum manually though, so I found your post anyways~

 

[CheertheSecond]

To be honest, some human-written stories found on sites like this one, feel like they were created by an early stage AI that malfunctioned upon writing the first half of a chapter. Lacking in both heart and soul, I think it'd be somewhat difficult, at times, to truly distinguish the real from the machine made. Someone could very well share creative writing with an AI, and create a story that falls somewhere between both.

All I can say, is that AI generated art and writing feels like cheating: it takes away our ability to challenge our mind, to acknowledge our flaws and weaknesses, and personally work on how to improve ourselves. Talent, skills, creativity and imagination are not things that can be created by a machine: these are developed and honed through human experiences, feelings and emotions that can be felt through a brush stroke or few words.

So if some people wish to depend on AI to create something, let them: in the end, they're only cheating themselves. And I don't believe AI is a proper tool, or solution to self improvement.

But that's just my opinion, people are free to do as they please, so as long as humanity remains above, and can still be felt.

Kindly, Rin.

I understand what you are trying to say but reader attention is a finite resource. Letting the AI works siphon this supply away from human authors' works is a negative thing for me.

After all, if we would like to scaffold human creativity, we should focus on human only works.

AI does not need creativity to better themselves. What are they going to use it for? Making money to order goods on ebay? They are cyber existence, physical products and human enjoyment offer them no satisfaction nor do them help the AIs toward whatever they want.

 

[Leti]

What are they going to use it for? Making money to order goods on ebay? They are cyber existence, physical products and human enjoyment offer them no satisfaction nor do them help the AIs toward whatever they want.

Exactly. We are cyber existence, physical products and human enjoyment offer us no satisfaction nor do them help us toward whatever we want.

 

[Indicterra]

Does Editing the story using AI come under this category

 

[MajorKerina]

Tagging it so people know is good. I use it in a very limited fashion for brainstorming and getting over writers block especially in emotional scenes that need a certain potent phrasing that I have difficulty expressing coherently. And then there's editing software like Quillbot and DeepL that help with rephrasing passive paragraphs into more active and clear ones.

 

[Sweetmeat]

I propose that we use AI-assisted genome editing to replace natural human readers with augmented readers that actually prefer lazy writing and amateur prose.

 

[Cipiteca396]

I propose that we use AI-assisted genome editing to replace natural human readers with augmented readers that actually prefer lazy writing and amateur prose.

But the AI never gets anything right, so you'd end up with lazy readers that prefer writing in amateur poses.

 

[JKHarr]

I think it should be okay as long as it's stated somewhere in the description that its AI generated.

 

[AdamKusy]

I don't think any AI has the capacity to create a full book or novel without forgetting the context after a few thousand words or chapters, for now at least. Who knows what will change in the next few years. Still, completely AI generated stories should get banned and removed, while people who use AI to write or edit some portions of their stories should put some warning before so that the potential readers can know what they're getting into since this whole AI art/text generation thing is still very sensitive and subjective.

 

[CubicleHermit]

Depends on the AI, and the context windows are getting larger all the time. Claude is the clear leader there, with their paid version able to get to 200k tokens or somewhere between 125-150k words. Without further prompting, it's a lot more analytical and a lot less creative than ChatGPT, so I'm not sure how much you'd ever want to use text it generated, but I've found it super-useful as an editor - I was able to dump in my entire WIP and ask it "where do you see inconsistencies?" and similar questions.

 

[nemonusquam_]

Ai art has taken over places such as devianart and other sites have chosen too regulate ai art or outright ban it, with Novelai becoming such a big trend do you believe that future novels which are generated with the use of sites such as Novelai should be banned or should they just be marked as being written by ai?

Whether one is for or against AI, like other technologies, it is here to stay.
So let's focus on honing our craft and telling a well-made story, and we'll be alright. There is an infinite amount of stories to be told, and your unique point of view cannot be replicated by a machine!

 

[Branwen_Cielocanto]

While I have no interest in reading "AI"-generated stories, I think that banning them would be pointless, as it would just lead to people posting them while pretending that they actually wrote the stories themselves(similar to what many are doing with "AI art"). There absolutely should be a required tag for such stories, though, so that they can be filtered out.