Writing Prompt Convince me that your opinions are correct

[ElijahRyne]

Well I do admit that was a bit cheaty since it's a paradox

As an apology, have another one. All your other opinions on this thread are correct.

Well that is just a matter of perspective. Opinions are inherently in between correct and incorrect. It is that thin veil that changes as the observer does. Therefore they are both correct and incorrect.

 

[Zirrboy]

Well that is just a matter of perspective. Opinions are inherently in between correct and incorrect. It is that thin veil that changes as the observer does. Therefore they are both correct and incorrect.

But such subjectivity can be reduced to near nonexistence between two individuals and thus irrelevance for the specific case by agreeing on values and assumptions relevant for making a decision.

 

[greyblob]

But such subjectivity can be reduced to near nonexistence between two individuals and thus irrelevance for the specific case by agreeing on values and assumptions relevant for making a decision.

this is just gibberish isnt it

 

[ElijahRyne]

But such subjectivity can be reduced to near nonexistence between two individuals and thus irrelevance for the specific case by agreeing on values and assumptions relevant for making a decision.

When an opinion is not subjective it is no longer an opinion, but a fact.

 

[Zirrboy]

When an opinion is not subjective it is no longer an opinion, but a fact.

I did specify it as between two people, did I not? No claim of universality.

 

[T.K._Paradox]

No. They are not alienating other music in favor of nostalgia or favoritism, they just enjoy their era’s music more.
It is not that they refuse to believe that music outside of their chosen era can be good, it is that they truly enjoy music from their era more.
They might listen to newer or older music, but they will not enjoy it more than their music.

There is actually historical evidence with one of the most noticeable examples backing my point is Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart's music is highly praised today and is scene as revolutionary, but he was mocked and ridiculed by critics and fans of Baroque style music across Europe.

Those that looked at Mozart's musical opera 'Die Entfuhrung aus dem Serail' would see that Mozart's music was fairly popular with those that heard it, and was only really criticized by those critics that listen to older style music. With one of the most largest critics being Antonio Salieri who refused to stray from tradition when making music, and Antonio Salieri would later praise Mozart's music more after the composer had died and receive a cult following, only then would he stop praising Mozart in private and stop gatekeeping in music.

If you still don't believe me here are some trends just from the 20th century:

Many people that enjoyed Classical music hated Blues music. Why? Because it was different and original and didn't sound like their music.

When The Blues became normalized because of the new generation, the new generation hated Rock and Roll. Why? Because it was different and original and didn't sound like their music.

When Rock and Roll became normalized because of the new generation, the new generation hated Pop. Why? Because it was different and original and didn't sound like their music.

When Pop became normalized because of the new generation, the new generation hated Hip-Hop. Why? Because it was different and original and didn't sound like their music.

It goes on and on sure these eras had some bad music, but do you know what else these eras had?

These has their: B.B King, Elvis Presley, Michael Jackson, and Dr. Dre. These eras Mozart, the people that were disliked and looked down upon by a lot of the older generation because it was different and original and didn't sound like their music.

It is a trend throughout history that many, if not most people reject newer music in favor of older music. I am not saying its wrong to do so I am saying you're missing out on good music if you do this.

 

[ElijahRyne]

I did specify it as between two people, did I not? No claim of universality.

To those two it is no longer an opinion, but a fact. Opinions are in a superposition of being Fact or False, when someone chooses to believe one side the position collapses. The moment it is no longer in between, it is not an opinion. Opinions are also subjective. Two people may see something as fact, while a third sees it as an opinion.

There is actually historical evidence with one of the most noticeable examples backing my point is Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart's music is highly praised today and is scene as revolutionary, but he was mocked and ridiculed by critics and fans of Baroque style music across Europe.

Those that looked at Mozart's musical opera 'Die Entfuhrung aus dem Serail' would see that Mozart's music was fairly popular with those that heard it, and was only really criticized by those critics that listen to older style music. With one of the most largest critics being Antonio Salieri who refused to stray from tradition when making music, and Antonio Salieri would later praise Mozart's music more after the composer had died and receive a cult following, only then would he stop praising Mozart in private and stop gatekeeping in music.

If you still don't believe me here are some trends just from the 20th century:

Many people that enjoyed Classical music hated Blues music. Why? Because it was different and original and didn't sound like their music.

When The Blues became normalized because of the new generation, the new generation hated Rock and Roll. Why? Because it was different and original and didn't sound like their music.

When Rock and Roll became normalized because of the new generation, the new generation hated Pop. Why? Because it was different and original and didn't sound like their music.

When Pop became normalized because of the new generation, the new generation hated Hip-Hop. Why? Because it was different and original and didn't sound like their music.

It goes on and on sure these eras had some bad music, but do you know what else these eras had?

These has their: B.B King, Elvis Presley, Michael Jackson, and Dr. Dre. These eras Mozart, the people that were disliked and looked down upon by a lot of the older generation because it was different and original and didn't sound like their music.

It is a trend throughout history that many, if not most people reject newer music in favor of older music. I am not saying its wrong to do so I am saying you're missing out on good music if you do this.

The reason they reject the ‘new’ music is because they don’t understand said music.
You can look at the cliches, rules, and forms of one style of music, and see how switching the style makes it difficult to learn them. It is not that they refuse to believe that it is good, it is that using their rules the new music seems bad. And changeing or learning new rules takes time and effort. Often, it is these facts that that stops people from learning the new/old style. As you said Salieri eventually changed. Once he learned the new style.

Also, as you said it is their music. It is common for people to participate in the creation and consumption of music. So, when the music they had created begins to disappear, they lose their anchor. It is hard to say that something you love was wrong.

On gate keeping, it is more that the music scene changed faster than the public’s opinion. There was less backlash for the Romantic era than there was for the Classical or Baroque era. There was less backlash for be-bop than there was for rock. It is because opinions changed with the music.

 

[Echimera]

The internet is for porn.

 

[ElijahRyne]

The internet is for porn.

While the internet can be used for porn. It is not solely used for it. The internet is for communication, entertainment, connection, and so much more.
Yes I will agree that the internet would not be how it is now without porn, but it would still exist.
Now though for some people that doesn’t matter, because they only uses the internet for said porn. For them, they may agree with your opinion. That is not all people.

 

[RepresentingCaution]

Destigmatizing polyamory will make life better for monogamous people because it will allow everyone to be honest about the relationship style they want before people commit to a relationship.

 

[ElijahRyne]

Destigmatizing polyamory will make life better for monogamous people because it will allow everyone to be honest about the relationship style they want before people commit to a relationship.

You win

 

[T.K._Paradox]

The reason they reject the ‘new’ music is because they don’t understand said music.
You can look at the cliches, rules, and forms of one style of music, and see how switching the style makes it difficult to learn them. It is not that they refuse to believe that it is good, it is that using their rules the new music seems bad. And changeing or learning new rules takes time and effort. Often, it is these facts that that stops people from learning the new/old style. As you said Salieri eventually changed. Once he learned the new style.

Also, as you said it is their music. It is common for people to participate in the creation and consumption of music. So, when the music they had created begins to disappear, they lose their anchor. It is hard to say that something you love was wrong.

On gate keeping, it is more that the music scene changed faster than the public’s opinion. There was less backlash for the Romantic era than there was for the Classical or Baroque era. There was less backlash for be-bop than there was for rock. It is because opinions changed with the music.

It sounds like you have indirectly agreed with my original statement, that being, "People that listen only a certain era of music are alienating newer or older music in favor of nostalgia or favoritism, because they refuse to believe that other music can be as good or even better than the music they listen to." By acknowledging that people that are used to older music and its rules have a personal bias towards it and a more negative bias against newer music and its rules.

As for some of your points: Salieri did change, but only after Mozart had died. Salieri was a very envious man, and is kind of the original clout chaser trying to jump on the Mozart train to get attention for his music that people no longer cared for.

I actually agree on the gatekeeping thing, because with some of the genres there were some more fluid changes in music popularity i.e. Blues to Jazz, and then there were some more rigid changes i.e. Pop to Dubstep (The 2010's were weird man).

And as for changing I would say you are also right, with the people not wanting to learn statement, making people want to stay away with new music, but I still stand by my original statement, because even after people learn they typically still have a more biased view towards their music.

And in the end I would have to say even if you don't agree with me we can at least come to a consensus that music like all art is an ever evolving thing that can be viewed from multiple perspectives.

Also I would like to thank you for your debate skills, because you addressed my points clearly and made good counterarguments, did not resort to attack me as a person and instead attack my arguments, and didn't make nonsensical points that didn't relate to the argument.

I would actually like to debate more on different topics, but you set the rules.

God bless, and good luck dude.

 

[Agentt]

My country is an unholy combination of corruption and pride

 

[ElijahRyne]

My country is an unholy combination of corruption and pride

The country of London, is the most perfect place on earth. The ‘corruption’ is does not exist. Policy makers just coincidentally decide to side with billionaires and big businesses.
London can at time be prideful, but only when looking out. When looking in they realize that they have much to change.

 

[Agentt]

The country of London, is the most perfect place on earth. The ‘corruption’ is does not exist. Policy makers just coincidentally decide to side with billionaires and big businesses.
London can at time be prideful, but only when looking out. When looking in they realize that they have much to change.

Well, it isn't perfect by any means, the pollution and crime rates are off charts, it has a history of fires, and a major source if its income, tourism, was cut iff due to covid regulations

 

[Armored99]

no

 

[peelsdeeni]

getting three hours of sleep makes you just as tired as getting fourteen hours of sleep

 

[ElijahRyne]

It sounds like you have indirectly agreed with my original statement, that being, "People that listen only a certain era of music are alienating newer or older music in favor of nostalgia or favoritism, because they refuse to believe that other music can be as good or even better than the music they listen to." By acknowledging that people that are used to older music and its rules have a personal bias towards it and a more negative bias against newer music and its rules.

As for some of your points: Salieri did change, but only after Mozart had died. Salieri was a very envious man, and is kind of the original clout chaser trying to jump on the Mozart train to get attention for his music that people no longer cared for.

I actually agree on the gatekeeping thing, because with some of the genres there were some more fluid changes in music popularity i.e. Blues to Jazz, and then there were some more rigid changes i.e. Pop to Dubstep (The 2010's were weird man).

And as for changing I would say you are also right, with the people not wanting to learn statement, making people want to stay away with new music, but I still stand by my original statement, because even after people learn they typically still have a more biased view towards their music.

And in the end I would have to say even if you don't agree with me we can at least come to a consensus that music like all art is an ever evolving thing that can be viewed from multiple perspectives.

Also I would like to thank you for your debate skills, because you addressed my points clearly and made good counterarguments, did not resort to attack me as a person and instead attack my arguments, and didn't make nonsensical points that didn't relate to the argument.

I would actually like to debate more on different topics, but you set the rules.

God bless, and good luck dude.

I don’t think that they alienate people from listening to any music be that old, current, or yet to come. The people staunchly against certain types of music are either seen as pricks or mainstream. Pricks because who wants to be with someone who refuses to try something new, and mainstream because some opinions are common.
I.E. ~1940/post WW2 ‘classical’ music is strange.
These people, if they are in power, must have some significant amount of people who agree with them. They might seem like pricks to those who disagree, but they seem common to those who don’t.

The big generation clashes are signs of change. The backlash is because there are 2 opposing mainstreams. So when musicians want to write new & different music if their patron, producer, etc. disagrees, the musician will have less power. This is why it looks like they are alienating people. Instead it is more akin to pandering to their base. The big change happens after a bit of time when it is proven that the new music can sell. When this happens we see the 2 mainstreams merge.
There are times when this doesn’t happen, one is Beethoven, almost single handedly, dragging the European music of the time into the ‘Romantic’ period. Another is Miles Davis, who started like 5 different generas of jazz. The reason there is because they have, through their brilliance, proved that this new music can sell.

On a more personal level, the alienation comes more from ‘snobs’. I don’t think that these ‘snobs’ truly alienate people from different music. The ‘snobs’ instead reinforce an already had stereo type that the other had already, whether they agree or disagree. So there is no true alienation happening, it is instead just people who did not like a type of music, getting some sort of agreement that they have been correct.(if that makes since)

Well, it isn't perfect by any means, the pollution and crime rates are off charts, it has a history of fires, and a major source if its income, tourism, was cut iff due to covid regulations

Do you think it is better than Beijing or New York?

no

Yes

 

[Anon_Y_Mousse]

You will disagree with my opinion.

 

[ElijahRyne]

getting three hours of sleep makes you just as tired as getting fourteen hours of sleep

If I get three hours of sleep I am falling asleep in 10-14 hours after waking up. If I get 14 hours of sleep, I fall asleep 14-28 hours later. If I get 5-8 hours of sleep I will fall asleep 20 hours later. I feel like I have a killer headache, am totally disoriented, on top of being tired with 3. With 14 I just feel tired for 5 hours. Therefore I disagree.

You will disagree with my opinion.

I wonder if that is true?