Chanting spells

Type of chant

  • English/poem style chant

    Votes: 20 62.5%
  • ‘Abrakadabra’ nonsense gibberish

    Votes: 12 37.5%

  • Total voters
    32

MatchaChocolate69

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I vote for chants.
I like it when powerful magic has chants that need to be recited to cast it. It’s a way to both characterize the spell and give it a limitation.
 

Thraben

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First of all, I am tired of people Enheriting this logic that chants are cringe. Bring back chants, you scoundrels. (Coming from a scoundrel who also doesn't always make chants.)

But seriously, I think it is more cringe when the MC says it is cringe to chant. :blobsip:
Counterpoint, any setting wherein magic users aren't actively trying to chant as little as possible or remove chanting all together I'm automatically forced to assume is an idiot plot.

It's the equivalent to if people in the real world made gunpowder but not guns, it's that abundantly incompetent and would reflect greatly on the setting itself.
Addendum!

Spells like Feather Fall or Shield that are meant to be used as reactions would be the equivalent to having an unsolved problem you already know the answer to but haven't submitted the answer yet.

Modal spells that can do multiple things (like Prestidigitation) are like equation systems, you pick an equation that gets you to the result you need for that situation and then the problem solves itself
 
D

Deleted member 84247

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Counterpoint, any setting wherein magic users aren't actively trying to chant as little as possible or remove chanting all together I'm automatically forced to assume is an idiot plot.

It's the equivalent to if people in the real world made gunpowder but not guns, it's that abundantly incompetent and would reflect greatly on the setting itself.
That's not really a counterpoint. That's how most stories work here. They try to get rid of chanting altogether. But if chanting is part of the magic system you don't need to get rid of it. Magic isn't really comparable to guns or gunpowder as it's not real. You can make any magic system, even making one that forces chants to work.

Imagine a world where you don't even discover gunpowder. Instead, you dig into the ground and find guns. It's stupid, but we are talking fantasy where you can do anything. I can only question the imaginations of authors. Also, while we are on this topic it is all FANTASY. How much a reader can suspend disbelief is up to them. Every reader will be different, and not all of them will even question why people are chanting.
 

Thraben

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That's not really a counterpoint. That's how most stories work here. They try to get rid of chanting altogether. But if chanting is part of the magic system you don't need to get rid of it. Magic isn't really comparable to guns or gunpowder as it's not real. You can make any magic system, even making one that forces chants to work.

Imagine a world where you don't even discover gunpowder. Instead, you dig into the ground and find guns. It's stupid, but we are talking fantasy where you can do anything. I can only question the imaginations of authors. Also, while we are on this topic it is all FANTASY. How much a reader can suspend disbelief is up to them. Every reader will be different, and not all of them will even question why people are chanting.
Ah, I didn't mean for this to come off the way it clearly has. I'll clarify.
Let's say you are miraculously isekai'd into a world with magic that requires chanting 1-2 sentences before you can cast a spell. We can make up and agree on literally any reason why chanting is required, it doesn't matter why mages need to do it, only that they do.
You, because you're a curious isekai protagonist, want to learn magic and more specifically use it to fight the bad guys, because that's how this works.

Obviously, we now have a logical checklist to follow for making magic more viable in combat in order to make you more powerful. 1-2 sentences is a lot of stuff to say in the middle of a fight that might not even last that long, so the checklist is primarily about guaranteeing that you'll succeed in casting your spell as quickly and efficiently as possible, and that it will be exactly as effective as it needs to be when it does.

The easiest way to do this would be to eschew the chant all together, and again, we can make up literally any reason why you'd need to chant, but the fact remains that the best solution to making magic more combat viable would be to shorten or remove it entirely. So, then, you, the isekai protagonist, figure out how to do magic without chanting.

Now we have a problem. If you're the only one who has figured out how to do this, either the author wasn't skilled enough at composing the magic system and this is a plot hole, or the author wasn't skilled enough at understanding what their magic system would do for their setting and this is a fundamental flaw in the setting that makes any character that isn't our protagonist seem incompetent.

This is my problem with chants. I like chants, they're badass, they're thematic, they fill what would be dead space with epic poetry or the hints of a magical language or with badass anime-style attack names - but they must necessarily be either a plot hole or a fundamental flaw in the setting unless the author is prepared to cover literally all of the bases.

Some are, and god damn do I respect them for it. Some don't, and in that case I prefer an author lampshading the problems with chanting over never addressing them at all.

To be clear here I've used chanting in all of my fics that have magic, with overcoming chanting explicitly being a way to signify that someone is stronger than the average trash.
 
D

Deleted member 84247

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Ah, I didn't mean for this to come off the way it clearly has. I'll clarify.
Let's say you are miraculously isekai'd into a world with magic that requires chanting 1-2 sentences before you can cast a spell. We can make up and agree on literally any reason why chanting is required, it doesn't matter why mages need to do it, only that they do.
You, because you're a curious isekai protagonist, want to learn magic and more specifically use it to fight the bad guys, because that's how this works.

Obviously, we now have a logical checklist to follow for making magic more viable in combat in order to make you more powerful. 1-2 sentences is a lot of stuff to say in the middle of a fight that might not even last that long, so the checklist is primarily about guaranteeing that you'll succeed in casting your spell as quickly and efficiently as possible, and that it will be exactly as effective as it needs to be when it does.

The easiest way to do this would be to eschew the chant all together, and again, we can make up literally any reason why you'd need to chant, but the fact remains that the best solution to making magic more combat viable would be to shorten or remove it entirely. So, then, you, the isekai protagonist, figure out how to do magic without chanting.

Now we have a problem. If you're the only one who has figured out how to do this, either the author wasn't skilled enough at composing the magic system and this is a plot hole, or the author wasn't skilled enough at understanding what their magic system would do for their setting and this is a fundamental flaw in the setting that makes any character that isn't our protagonist seem incompetent.

This is my problem with chants. I like chants, they're badass, they're thematic, they fill what would be dead space with epic poetry or the hints of a magical language or with badass anime-style attack names - but they must necessarily be either a plot hole or a fundamental flaw in the setting unless the author is prepared to cover literally all of the bases.

Some are, and god damn do I respect them for it. Some don't, and in that case I prefer an author lampshading the problems with chanting over never addressing them at all.

To be clear here I've used chanting in all of my fics that have magic, with overcoming chanting explicitly being a way to signify that someone is stronger than the average trash.
Well, yeah there are those. To use your gunpowder and gun example, imagine if chants are the firing pin. You can change firing pins and make new guns, but you still need the firing pin for them to work. If chants are a requirement, they can still be viable in combat, it mostly depends on things like how fast enemies are.

Imagine the modern world, but I can cast fireball with a sentence long chant. That is still super strong to the average person unless they have a gun. Even then, I can catch them off guard. I can sneak behind a whole squad and say a sentence behind a rock. Boom, all those people with guns get hit by a fireball.
 

Thraben

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Well, yeah there are those. To use your gunpowder and gun example, imagine if chants are the firing pin. You can change firing pins and make new guns, but you still need the firing pin for them to work. If chants are a requirement, they can still be viable in combat, it mostly depends on things like how fast enemies are.

Imagine the modern world, but I can cast fireball with a sentence long chant. That is still super strong to the average person unless they have a gun. Even then, I can catch them off guard. I can sneak behind a whole squad and say a sentence behind a rock. Boom, all those people with guns get hit by a fireball.
I agree completely.

But if everyone, or at least a significant portion of people, can use that fireball, it'd be unjustifiable to assume that no one has tried to make or been successful at making a better firing pin.
 
D

Deleted member 84247

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I agree completely.

But if everyone, or at least a significant portion of people, can use that fireball, it'd be unjustifiable to assume that no one has tried to make or been successful at making a better firing pin.
Yeah, that's why things like Lord of the Rings had such little magic casters too. You have to make magic rare or have people who innovate on magic casting.
 

Thraben

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Yeah, that's why things like Lord of the Rings had such little magic casters too. You have to make magic rare or have people who innovate on magic casting.
That's why I like D&D casting, because while 1/100ish people can use magic, only 1/10,000,000 (the wizards specifically) will ever be capable of innovating or even understanding it, but they'll understand it on the same level that current scientists understand electricity compared to the average medieval peasant from a thousand years ago.
 

AstreiaNyx

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Reading a debate about chanting with the use of intricate metaphors :blob_popcorn:

Looking back at her novel. The only chant she wrote is a call for divine intervention with: “yesyesyes” and “ohgodsohgods”.:sweating_profusely:

Slowly, she excuses herself from the debate. :blob_hide:
 

Thraben

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Reading a debate about chanting with the use of intricate metaphors :blob_popcorn:

Looking back at her novel. The only chant she wrote is a call for divine intervention with: “yesyesyes” and “ohgodsohgods”.:sweating_profusely:

Slowly, she excuses herself from the debate. :blob_hide:
Nah 'yesyesyes' is just traditional Skaven for 'kill it with everything you have' and as such is perfectly valid
 

Elmir_Arch-Ham_of_Omega

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Chanting nowadays (especially in Isekai) is used as a plot device to show how bad everyone else is in magic...
Bring back the cool ones like "Sheathe these feet in the Driving Gale / Make swift these legs / Over land I sail!" and "By Nature's Hand / By Craft, by Art / What once was One / Now fly apart!"
 

aattss

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Ah, I didn't mean for this to come off the way it clearly has. I'll clarify.
Let's say you are miraculously isekai'd into a world with magic that requires chanting 1-2 sentences before you can cast a spell. We can make up and agree on literally any reason why chanting is required, it doesn't matter why mages need to do it, only that they do.
You, because you're a curious isekai protagonist, want to learn magic and more specifically use it to fight the bad guys, because that's how this works.

Obviously, we now have a logical checklist to follow for making magic more viable in combat in order to make you more powerful. 1-2 sentences is a lot of stuff to say in the middle of a fight that might not even last that long, so the checklist is primarily about guaranteeing that you'll succeed in casting your spell as quickly and efficiently as possible, and that it will be exactly as effective as it needs to be when it does.

The easiest way to do this would be to eschew the chant all together, and again, we can make up literally any reason why you'd need to chant, but the fact remains that the best solution to making magic more combat viable would be to shorten or remove it entirely. So, then, you, the isekai protagonist, figure out how to do magic without chanting.

Now we have a problem. If you're the only one who has figured out how to do this, either the author wasn't skilled enough at composing the magic system and this is a plot hole, or the author wasn't skilled enough at understanding what their magic system would do for their setting and this is a fundamental flaw in the setting that makes any character that isn't our protagonist seem incompetent.

This is my problem with chants. I like chants, they're badass, they're thematic, they fill what would be dead space with epic poetry or the hints of a magical language or with badass anime-style attack names - but they must necessarily be either a plot hole or a fundamental flaw in the setting unless the author is prepared to cover literally all of the bases.

Some are, and god damn do I respect them for it. Some don't, and in that case I prefer an author lampshading the problems with chanting over never addressing them at all.

To be clear here I've used chanting in all of my fics that have magic, with overcoming chanting explicitly being a way to signify that someone is stronger than the average trash.

The author doesn't need to create a way for people to use magic without chanting. Just because people in-universe may try to cast magic without chanting, doesn't mean they can actually succeed. Sometimes, limitations (if it is such) in a setting don't exist for the sake of being ignored by characters who are sufficiently "smart" or awesome.

And if an author doesn't explain the in-universe reason people need chants, that's not something I'm particularly concerned with. I mean, people have different expectations and ideas of how certain tropes should play. For example, I see it as a potential plot hole if magic is too flexible and convenient in the hands of someone new to it.
 

QuercusMalus

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Both can be done well. But overall I prefer chanting.

Not sure if you would call it 'chanting' as they are in a made up language, but I liked how the thu'ums from Skyrim were done- to learn you need the ability, an item(dragon soul), and to find the location, and each syllable unlocks more power but requires more souls. By adding syllables you are expanding the chant. With them being single syllables also makes it make more sense in a combat situation where long, drawn out chants seem problematic.

There was a series called 'A Wizard in Rhyme' where the mc was a literary major or something similar and accidentally got transported to a world where rhymes and songs were spells. It led to some... interesting mistakes. Him reciting the quote from the statue of liberty accidentally summoned a bunch of hobos. The Tyger by William Blake got him a dragon.
 

BearlyAlive

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I'm rather fond of longer one-liners or poems, but I can understand people wanting to use other languages like Latin or German. As long as they don't butcher the grammar like Nasu did to the German language in Fate...

Using "ASDfawdDGA<SDGASDGF" for fireball spells might be a fun idea, at least until you use "ASDfawdDGA>SDGASDGF" by mistake for water spells...

Also when I read the second poll option, for some reason I had to think of warlocks casting spells by screaming "uwu uwu" or "Ugyaaa" or other weird onomatopoeia...
 

RiaCorvidiva

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I don't know if I like the idea of 'gibberish', but I think it's perfectly reasonable and commonplace to have words spoken in a complicated divine language or language of magic / spellcasting. Especially when there are some pathways to explore in terms of 'if I learn how to speak more complicated sentences, I get more powerful effects. But if I screw it up, the spell backfires.' Or similar.
 

Dark_Phoenix_Zaetyk

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Nowadays you don't see chanting spells/magic in novels especially those Isekai ones.....all you got is a guy/lady spamming "magic" to release Heavenly fires
 
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