Cancel Culture

RepresentingWrath

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Well... to be completely technical, it is completely logical to everyone who participates in the canceling, even if it might seem illogical to you. It's also hard to say if you're in the majority or minority of some opinion.

Opinions flip all the time. The United States was giving weapons to Al Qaeda and Osama Bin Laden in the 80's. Everyone (in the US) thought Bin Laden was a good guy back then because he was fighting the soviets. But then 9/11 happened and all of the US hated him. Did that mean Bin Laden was 'canceled'? :blobrofl:

The other thing is that the "presumption of innocence" is a legal routine that we consider fair, but is not necessarily logical or reflective of the facts of what actually happened.

For instance, pretty much 98% of everyone will pretty much universally agree that Jeffrey Epstein did in fact have an island full of underage sex slaves, but our legal system (which presumes innocent until proven guilty) has often resulted in very outcomes where Epstein has been acquitted in court numerous times. Generally speaking, having enough money and power can often result in powerful people buying their way out of court (or ridiculously light sentences like a few months of "house arrest" in a luxury mansion), and this has been a fact of the United States justice system pretty much since forever.

The 'canceling' of everyone closely associated with Epstein is therefore a logical reflection of what people perceive as what the US justice system was incapable of doing -- and people attempting to apply what they consider their own personal form of justice.

An important reminder that a 'not guilty' verdict in court =/= 'innocent'.

The US justice system is notoriously imperfect. It isn't based on science or rationality or explicit logic. Rather, we have a jury system where it's basically 12 jurors who give their subjective opinions whether the accused is guilty or not guilty. The jurors are (as a rule of thumb) vulnerable to appeals of emotion, and good lawyers learn to exploit that in order to obtain verdicts that suit their client's purposes. Also, if a majority of your jurors are racist (or biased against a particular race) it also means that the verdict will most likely also be racist (hence there were many cases in the early 20th century where black people accused of a crime were sentenced to it even though there was virtually no evidence and it was later proven that the entire story was fabricated).
Look, I didn't say that a 'not guilty' verdict in court =/= 'innocent'. I said, that Lynch law isn't a logical thing for a normal person. Yeah, opinions flip that's why you should abide by the law, not the Lynch law. Hell, we aren't even talking about freaking law-breaking. If someone said something racist, does he deserve to get his life ruined? Just because his opinions don't suit yours. As you said it yourself opinions flip all the time. This year, you lynch someone for being racist on Twitter, which might be right. The next year you are being lynched.

You said about Epstein, I don't live in the USA, nor do I know a thing about this Epstein. SO, let's talk about someone I know. Alec Holowka. Know him? He got canceled. Then he chose to kill himself because he was in a severe depression. Did anyone at least TRY to look if he was guilty or not? Were those people who bullied him punished? The answer is no. So what if he WAS innocent? There is no proof if he was or wasn't. Does a person's life weigh the same as another person's beliefs?

Yeah, there are times those crowds are right, not going to deny this. It's true. BUT there are times when they are wrong. So, does the person who is canceling another person held accountable when the said person is wrong? And the answer to my question is a no. Because you can't hold the CROWD accountable. You can punish like ten people, twenty, fifty. You can make an example. But, you can't punish hundreds and thousands.
 

ohko

tilda~ me~ home~ ♪
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Look, I didn't say that a 'not guilty' verdict in court =/= 'innocent'. I said, that Lynch law isn't a logical thing for a normal person. Yeah, opinions flip that's why you should abide by the law, not the Lynch law. Hell, we aren't even talking about freaking law-breaking. If someone said something racist, does he deserve to get his life ruined? Just because his opinions don't suit yours. As you said it yourself opinions flip all the time. This year, you lynch someone for being racist on Twitter, which might be right. The next year you are being lynched.

You said about Epstein, I don't live in the USA, nor do I know a thing about this Epstein. SO, let's talk about someone I know. Alec Holowka. Know him? He got canceled. Then he chose to kill himself because he was in a severe depression. Did anyone at least TRY to look if he was guilty or not? Were those people who bullied him punished? The answer is no. So what if he WAS innocent? There is no proof if he was or wasn't. Does a person's life weigh the same as another person's beliefs?

Yeah, there are times those crowds are right, not going to deny this. It's true. BUT there are times when they are wrong. So, does the person who is canceling another person held accountable when the said person is wrong? And the answer to my question is a no. Because you can't hold the CROWD accountable. You can punish like ten people, twenty, fifty. You can make an example. But, you can't punish hundreds and thousands.
:sweat_smile::sweat_smile::sweat_smile: There literally isn't such thing as a "Lynch Law".

This thing that you call the "lynch law" is something that's called living in a human society, and it has existed for thousands of years long before anyone coined the term 'canceling'. Back in the middle ages, if you said something scandalous (or suspected of doing something scandalous), you were 'canceled', shunned, and excommunicated, and this has been a normal feature of all human societies across all history. Entire operas and books are written about ancient people doing scandalous things and getting canceled about it.

Obsessing over 'cancel culture' as something unique or new to the 21st Century is just... weird to me.

If you go to a big public park and shout really loudly that "Hi everyoneee!!! I'm a lolicon and I [censored] with babies!", getting a reaction (and possible repercussions in your social/work life) are totally normal and expected since we live in a society. If you considered getting socially ruined a form of "lynching", I don't really don't know what to say to you.......

Everything that a person says and does has a measurable impact on their public image / opinion.

Denying that fact is... well... unreasonable.

Calliope Mori recently posted that if she was an animal, she would be a lemur... and 5000 followers instantly unsubscribed (because apparently being a furry is unacceptable). If we take the analogy that vtubers, companies, brands, and everything is a product -- everything that you say either gives you more followers or causes you to lose some.

As long as you are producing a net gain of followers, then you could say that you're doing pretty well.

Even then, there are still certain things that a vtuber shouldn't say (it would cause them to lose too many followers), so they aren't allowed to say it. This is basically capitalism in the form of branding and public image.

Of course, there are people who will kill themselves for having their public image slaughtered or losing too many Twitter followers -- like the person that you mentioned -- yet there are also people like Donald Trump who probably have several dozen sexual assault allegations at this point yet contrarily aren't killing themselves and seem to be doing just fine.

The social world is cruel in various senses. People judge, and being in a public space means that other people will judge you, regardless of what is said or isn't said out loud.
 

RepresentingWrath

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:sweat_smile::sweat_smile::sweat_smile: There literally isn't such thing as a "Lynch Law".

This thing that you call the "lynch law" is something that's called living in a human society, and it has existed for thousands of years long before anyone coined the term 'canceling'. Back in the middle ages, if you said something scandalous (or suspected of doing something scandalous), you were 'canceled', shunned, and excommunicated, and this has been a normal feature of all human societies across all history. Entire operas and books are written about ancient people doing scandalous things and getting canceled about it.

Obsessing over 'cancel culture' as something unique or new to the 21st Century is just... weird to me.

If you go to a big public park and shout really loudly that "Hi everyoneee!!! I'm a lolicon and I [censored] with babies!", getting a reaction (and possible repercussions in your social/work life) are totally normal and expected since we live in a society. If you considered getting socially ruined a form of "lynching", I don't really don't know what to say to you.......

Everything that a person says and does has a measurable impact on their public image / opinion.

Denying that fact is... well... unreasonable.

Calliope Mori recently posted that if she was an animal, she would be a lemur... and 5000 followers instantly unsubscribed (because apparently being a furry is unacceptable). If we take the analogy that vtubers, companies, brands, and everything is a product -- everything that you say either gives you more followers or causes you to lose some.

As long as you are producing a net gain of followers, then you could say that you're doing pretty well.

Even then, there are still certain things that a vtuber shouldn't say (it would cause them to lose too many followers), so they aren't allowed to say it. This is basically capitalism in the form of branding and public image.

Of course, there are people who will kill themselves for having their public image slaughtered or losing too many Twitter followers -- like the person that you mentioned -- yet there are also people like Donald Trump who probably have several dozen sexual assault allegations at this point yet contrarily aren't killing themselves and seem to be doing just fine.

The social world is cruel in various senses. People judge, and being in a public space means that other people will judge you, regardless of what is said or isn't said out loud.
Look, I'm not gonna lie, I can't comprehend all the things you wrote. My brain is kind of lagging due to the heat. And due to that fact, I don't translate every word I think of in my native language correctly. I may use synonyms that might be wrong.

As for the things you said, we aren't living in medieval times. We are living in modern times. And I believe, that NO human should be prosecuted for his beliefs. Doesn't matter if it's religious ones or political. Just because he is left, and I'm right, and she is centrist, we should go on a crusade and kill each other? Or what? You talked about the USA. Okay, somewhere in the Caucasian countries, you might end up dead for being gay. Just because these people killed gays like thousand years before, we should think of this as 'their culture' and accept this? After all, the social world is cruel, right? Why do you choose to be gay in a place where you can't be gay? Bad, bad gay.

Now let's proceed to the classical victim-blaming. So, a person had serious health issues, and he kills himself because he lost HIS FREAKING LIFE. He lost his job, his most trusted friends turned away from him, he got called a rapist, and no one wants to have anything to do with him. Because his name became a toxic brand. Because he was canceled. We should believe the woman who accused him. We should believe, that she had SEVERE depression because he ALLEGEDLY raped her. And we think of this as a reason, serious enough to cancel this guy. She is to be believed, he isn't. Or what? WHO chooses whom to believe?

Lastly, you didn't answer the question. Do those who cancel get ANY kind of punishment for being in the wrong? Also, by your logic. Back in the middle ages, some people were slaves of other people. SO, we should return slavery? Because it was prevalent, you know. There are even entire books saying how good slavery is.

The thing with all these canceling, precisely, the fact that they don't pick a fight with 'real' evil. They chose those who are weaker. Do people support Belarus? Do people support Hong Kong? Do people support Uyghurs? Do people fight for LGBTQ+ rights in countries where there are no rights for the said minorities? NO. They pick a fight they can win to make them feel good. They don't even need to think if this fight is righteous or not. Fuck it, I heard of Amazon employees suffering. Does anyone fight for their rights? Like, stop ordering anything from Amazon? Fight Amazon with capitalism, strike Amazon with money by decreasing their revenue? No?

There is a saying in my native language, a small victorious war. I believe there is something similar in English, a splendid small war. In the past, the government of a certain country needed to unite the country, the people. As they couldn't do ANYTHING to actually make the lives of people better, they started a war. A war that they thought they would win quickly, thus diverting the attention of the people. Making them elated that their country is strong, that they belong to something great. And all those canceling people, each and every one of them leading those splendid small wars. To make themselves feel better.
 

ohko

tilda~ me~ home~ ♪
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As for the things you said, we aren't living in medieval times. We are living in modern times. And I believe, that NO human should be prosecuted for his beliefs.
No one is being prosecuted for their beliefs. Nobody is being sent to court or jail because they said something.

Freedom of speech goes in all directions.

Party A has the freedom to say racist things, and Party B has the freedom to criticize Party A for saying racist things.

Nobody is throwing anybody else into jail. Everyone is basically saying what they want -- which is the inherent nature of freedom of speech.

She is to be believed, he isn't. Or what? WHO chooses whom to believe?
Every individual who hears a story automatically forms their own judgement of the situation. Human beings naturally judge others, and it's impossible to stop people from judging other people. This is a fact of society and how human culture works.

When many people reach the same conclusion, it forms a side in a controversy. Some people will support Side A, and other people will support Side B. This is the very nature of a controversy, and if there wasn't a difference in beliefs, it inherently wouldn't be a controversy.

You can't stop either side from forming their beliefs about a situation. Stopping people from stating their beliefs is censorship.

Lastly, you didn't answer the question. Do those who cancel get ANY kind of punishment for being in the wrong?
No. Putting people in prison for things that say is literally (legalized) censorship.
 

BenJepheneT

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Well... to be completely technical, it is completely logical to everyone who participates in the canceling, even if it might seem illogical to you. It's also hard to say if you're in the majority or minority of some opinion.

Opinions flip all the time. The United States was giving weapons to Al Qaeda and Osama Bin Laden in the 80's. Everyone (in the US) thought Bin Laden was a good guy back then because he was fighting the soviets. But then 9/11 happened and all of the US hated him. Did that mean Bin Laden was 'canceled'? :blobrofl:

The other thing is that the "presumption of innocence" is a legal routine that we consider fair, but is not necessarily logical or reflective of the facts of what actually happened.

For instance, pretty much 98% of everyone will pretty much universally agree that Jeffrey Epstein did in fact have an island full of underage sex slaves, but our legal system (which presumes innocent until proven guilty) has often resulted in very outcomes where Epstein has been acquitted in court numerous times. Generally speaking, having enough money and power can often result in powerful people buying their way out of court (or ridiculously light sentences like a few months of "house arrest" in a luxury mansion), and this has been a fact of the United States justice system pretty much since forever.

The 'canceling' of everyone closely associated with Epstein is therefore a logical reflection of what people perceive as what the US justice system was incapable of doing -- and people attempting to apply what they consider their own personal form of justice.

An important reminder that a 'not guilty' verdict in court =/= 'innocent'.

The US justice system is notoriously imperfect. It isn't based on science or rationality or explicit logic. Rather, we have a jury system where it's basically 12 jurors who give their subjective opinions whether the accused is guilty or not guilty. The jurors are (as a rule of thumb) vulnerable to appeals of emotion, and good lawyers learn to exploit that in order to obtain verdicts that suit their client's purposes. Also, if a majority of your jurors are racist (or biased against a particular race) it also means that the verdict will most likely also be racist (hence there were many cases in the early 20th century where black people accused of a crime were sentenced to it even though there was virtually no evidence and it was later proven that the entire story was fabricated).
I never saw it that way, but perhaps we should've. We're always the victim/good guys in our narratives. People having different opinions, and I mean that in an extreme manner. My bruise could be what makes you bleed, and what may be a minor ache to you could be a massive stab wound to me.

Of course, Epstein's Disneyland and racism within the early (and arguably, now still) jurors of the justice system is indefensible, and the Bin Laden shtick has no grey area; one's an extremist and the other's a morally corrupt opportunist with only corporate good in mind. But what I think the point that OP wanted to make was overreactions the internet usually has over inconsequential acts or even minor misconceptions between two parties, and by that, is in conjunction with how fucking easy it is to use the internet.

As stated above, this cancel culture thing only really dangles like a death threat over people with significant social standing on the internet. At worst, us peasants just get "ratio'd" over at Twitter for a bad take. But to stay on topic here, we've seen people get their jobs fired or be reported over universities for simply having a different opinion on a social subject. You can't even argue between classism and racism without the threat of being doxxed breathing down your neck. It's to the point where you WOULD want to actively avoid political topics just so you could keep from a social threat. Of course, you could always follow the usual NEVER POST ANY PERSONAL INFO OVER THE INTERNET rule but let's be honest: do you remember all your steps? Can you trace it all back to the first time you've ever started an Instagram account, or have an old alt somewhere you used to use as a main but now you've forgotten the password to? Those are live ammunition with your name on it, just laying there to be fired.

I think what OP was trying to highlight is the consequences of mob mentality PLUS the integration of the internet within modern society. Cancel culture didn't exist back then because at best, the common mob is a rally down at Wall Street that amounted to nothing but a massive clean-up operation at the sidewalk. Wall Street is still evil, only that they aren't hiding it anymore, and there's nothing you could do about it, but that's besides the point. Now, corporations and managements (things that we rely on to get a wage from) rely on these sites. Virtual traffic is as big as it's ever been. A social phenomenon/trend is the best advertising a brand would want that they couldn't buy. They want to become, in the literal sense, MEMES, so that they get spread far and wide as free advertising. This is why you get brand accounts trying to appeal to the masses with posts that range from somewhat haha to downright pandering cringe. They are, in a distilled explanation, chasing that internet bag. They NEED the internet, because if they hit the right frequency, they've essentially won advertising jackpot. and since they're chasing the internet bag of money, why not just port it all to the internet? the audience is on the internet already, right? so why not just make our systems and services work on the net? it's infinitely more profitable than its physical counterpart.

As of now, let me diverge a little bit from the subject and focus on the court in which cancel culture is fought on: social media.

Now, social media isn't just a part of the individual; they ARE the individual now. Your presence on the internet isn't an addition but a representation, at least to many. With social media being easy as ever to manage, a majority of people do not understand that there are others who like to hold some life beyond the interweb and just enjoy some slices of real life outside of the screen. However, being that social media are now having more expansive tools to express oneself, it's become this homogenous opinion of the masses that anything you are can be translated to the internet. However, the problem lies within the inability of social media to express nuance. Social media is designed as a catch-all tool for people to express who they are; they aren't swiss army knives that have designated tools that have specific purposes of expressing a certain side to a person; why catch the market of a niche when the profit's on the most RELATABLE OF MASSES. In short, they give tools that could simplify the market's most shared interests and personality and anything beyond that is just extra fat.

But what if that extra fat is what defines a certain person? What if they're someone that stands away from the usual crowd and just can't find a way to express himself with the tools given to them?

Most people don't care. They don't understand that there are some people whose personalities just don't mesh with the giant tools social media gives them to express themselves. That don't mean those "some people" won't try, just that the results vary. But, as I've said, most people DON'T CARE. I'm not saying most people are vain mongoloids that don't understand not everything can be translated well over to a tweet, I'm just saying that over-usage of convenience can blind others from wondering that said convenience may not be the same to the other guy. Social media has become SO EASY to use that anything beyond the realm of its expertise isn't considered as "exploration into personal psyches" but idiosyncracies, and those with said idiosyncrasies are what most people would label as "weirdos". Your personality can't be translated over a general app popularly used by the masses? You're not a guy with a differing character, you're just weird, because you can't cope with the tidal wave of simplifications.

But now, with the ever-rising usage of social media and with said corpos using it as advertising Powerball, the concept of niches in a personality is dead. Plus, with the ever rampant popularity competitions these social medias promote with systems such as Followers, Likes, Points, and Engagement Algorithms, the coffin is lowered into the Mariana's Trench, wrapped in steel chains and left for dead. Everyone's personality isn't a complex web of life experiences and teachings and perceptions, it's tags on a book: are you quirky, shy, loves books, enjoys movies, loves cartoons, hate cats? They've become labels, essentially, cut out from the general tools given by said social media. In fact, it's now encouraged that you have an easily labelled personality/character. Convenience is what sells now. On par with the rising surge of social media's presence and the said marketing from corpos and the popularity contest, what the internet's essentially done is that they've somehow replaced reality with their system, and now differing from the norm isn't seen as just a divergence from the mass, but as unmarketable shit that is actively discouraged. It's even apparent in this very dear site. 10k words with heavy themes that requires deep reading? No. Easily understandable LitRPG that's more plot-focused in 2k or less words? Yes. Why read about thing that can't be easily labelled when you can read the thing that literally has numbers displayed to present as progression? this isn't a jab at litRPGs, but as evidence on how convenience is king in the current world.

in short words, convenience in social media has become so convenient that it's now being integrated into our social life in the real world due to the rampant marketing and integration from corporations, further fuelling the public's dependence over said social media. coupled with the popularity competition encouraged by social media, social life has effectively become a test on how well you can translate over to a twitter profile. if you aren't compatible with the provided tools given by said social media, too bad, you're an outcast now, as social media isn't media anymore, but life.

Now, with all that explained, I will now explain that mob mentality.

It's easier than ever to gather a crowd over the web when exposure is as easy as one viral hashtag. You don't even need to make one good hashtag; like throwing shit at a wall, spam hashtag until one lands and goes absolutely everywhere, but that's just one half of the picture. One can easily manipulate the internet if one knows what makes it turn. And as explained on how social media became life, what better way to manipulate the masses than to use their humanity as a hostage? Couple that notion with the trend popularity competitions on the internet and you've got yourself a concoction that's as vile as its aftermath: the ability to deem someone as inhumane. essentially, the way to get people riled up on the internet is to use a subject and distill it in a way that it relates to one's moral principles and humanity. TL;DR: if you don't agree with this, you're a bad person. add that with said popularity competition and the innate will in all of us to "be the good guy", you've got yourself an easy mob entirely fueled by their desire to stay humane; as a good guy, if you will. to take ownership for the CONCEPT of being HUMAN, is ultimate power. religion as used it to great extents in the past, and damn if it doesn't work here.

and therein lies the problem. social media has essentially distilled the masses into labels. nuance is dead. everything is laid front, bare and centre through the lens of the internet. what those lens can't see doesn't exist. what those lens see is absolute. it doesn't matter if they're looking at it from one singular perspective among many others. my view is correct, and everyone else that sees what I don't see is incorrect, and as discussed from the last paragraph, inhumane.

and now you get cancel culture.

the utter convenience of social media causing its organic integration into becoming a dependence of life, the rising reliance of corporations and businesses of social media as a reaction out of chasing profits, the dismissiveness towards those that don't fit the frames provided by said social medias, the death of nuance in personalities, and the manipulation of the masses through the eligibility of one's humanity from simple labels used to describe a personality.

and now to construct the final picture.

you have a mob that will tear you down to shreds from the bare notion that you're inhumane simply because you don't adopt their labels. you have the death of nuanced personalities and backgrounds and upbringings; all utterly ignored. if one doesn't adopt said labels, they get dogged on the internet. they might get lucky if they hide their tracks well, but those that don't, they get their addresses and workplaces found out. corporations and businesses that depend on social media have to conform to the crowd; they are the customer after all. and now the one that doesn't adopt the label gets fired from their job out of sheer pressure from the big masses. it doesn't even matter if your business doesn't;t use social media for exposure. one viral post full of slander is enough to motivate your local community to shun you, as social media has essentially integrated part of life. it doesn't matter if it's full of lies: peer pressure is what calls the shot now.

and that's without getting into extra territory such as American ideals being used as compasses in eastern situations where they have no business being in, the rising narrative of clear cut black and whites, political climates, etc. that all STILL play giant parts within this massive web of a social phenomenon.

and now for the big question: what's wrong with that? in the end, those labels still define your personality, right? in frank words, it's not hard to say that you don't support racism, right?

and that's where the death of nuance comes.

who's to define these labels? there's no nuance to these discussions anymore. the discussion is boiled down to who can make the best sounding jingo/metaphor that seems irrefutable despite holding many inaccuracies and lies. the difference between a popular racist who claims to be otherwise and a non-racist guy with unpopular opinions is that the former can swap his rhetoric to be righteous and great just by simply claiming himself to be, and any discussion that would've been made is moot as the former can just as easily use the internet to their advantage to socially cripple the latter in the name of humanity.

of course, there are ACTUAL bad people out there with harmful views and opinions, but who's to say their judgement is always correct. who's to say ANYONE's judgement is correct? and when everyone's using humanity as a front for their cause, then what's so sacred about humanity in the first place anyway when it can be applied to labels so easily?

this, I believe, is the issue of cancel culture. the simplification of humanity to simple labels and the favour of popularity over actual merits to a discussion, and since the former is significantly more quantifiable than the latter, nuance is swiftly killed in the backfire. it does kill deserving enemies, yes, but this is scorched earth tactic.

i prefer to keep the innocents out of the way and do things the old way. the justice system may be flawed, but it's not a digital lynch mob. at least there's curation, instead of a group driven on pure peer pressure to be the "good guys". if you still believe in your cause, then I hope you get as much mercy as you see fit to give your enemy.

or maybe I'm wrong and I spent these four hours typing pure bullshit idk
 

AliceShiki

Magical Girl of Love and Justice
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I have encountered people who encountered my series and they never read like more than 2 chapters and they try to cancel me.
In nearly every platform rather it is twitter or other platform.
The groups that try to cancel many anime and other series without giving it a chance and giving the a proper feedback are like cancer.
People in that try cancel anything without giving a chance for example reading half of a volume.
Not everyone will find what they like but giving constructive reviews and feedback is great but trying to cancel cause , cause they make something; you don't agree with is just wrong.
Just give a author a chance without attacking them please.
There is a video that talks about people trying to cancel a anime in the link.
Without context, what your post seems to be talking about, is that someone read two chapters of your novel and left a bad review after this much.

... That's absolutely normal? If your novel failed to hook someone in your early chapters, then you failed as a writer. The first 10 minutes of any media are the most important ones, as those are the ones that hook your audience. It's absolutely normal to drop a webnovel if you don't get interested in it after a small handful of chapters.

Sure, most people won't leave a review after this little, but some will, and they're allowed to. This is not cancel culture, that's just disliking (the early chapters of) a novel and openly saying so... >.>

Like, maybe your novel will get better in the latter chapters, but the early chapters are your most important chapters, so it's your fault that they failed to hook the readers properly.
 

SerikoLee

Chaos Realm Creator/ Chaos God
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If everyone everywhere gets only two chapters into your book, complains and then quits, maybe you should focus more on improving your writing and storytelling and less on "cancel culture." It's just criticism, and criticism isn't always constructive in and of itself. You have to learn to deal with it constructively.
That is not what am talking about , there's goblin slayer and other series , that people out right attacked.
My series is like goblin slayer when nearing the end of my first volume.
Without context, what your post seems to be talking about, is that someone read two chapters of your novel and left a bad review after this much.

... That's absolutely normal? If your novel failed to hook someone in your early chapters, then you failed as a writer. The first 10 minutes of any media are the most important ones, as those are the ones that hook your audience. It's absolutely normal to drop a webnovel if you don't get interested in it after a small handful of chapters.

Sure, most people won't leave a review after this little, but some will, and they're allowed to. This is not cancel culture, that's just disliking (the early chapters of) a novel and openly saying so... >.>

Like, maybe your novel will get better in the latter chapters, but the early chapters are your most important chapters, so it's your fault that they failed to hook the readers properly.
True but am talking people attacking the series like the one's i grew to love.
One example: Interspecies Reviewers
So i compared one of my chapter that is like goblin and the sudden 1 star chance of that.
 

RepresentingWrath

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No one is being prosecuted for their beliefs. Nobody is being sent to court or jail because they said something.

Freedom of speech goes in all directions.

Party A has the freedom to say racist things, and Party B has the freedom to criticize Party A for saying racist things.

Nobody is throwing anybody else into jail. Everyone is basically saying what they want -- which is the inherent nature of freedom of speech.


Every individual who hears a story automatically forms their own judgement of the situation. Human beings naturally judge others, and it's impossible to stop people from judging other people. This is a fact of society and how human culture works.

When many people reach the same conclusion, it forms a side in a controversy. Some people will support Side A, and other people will support Side B. This is the very nature of a controversy, and if there wasn't a difference in beliefs, it inherently wouldn't be a controversy.

You can't stop either side from forming their beliefs about a situation. Stopping people from stating their beliefs is censorship.


No. Putting people in prison for things that say is literally (legalized) censorship.

No one is prosecuted. Yeah, that's the problem. People get shunned to the point they lose their jobs. Because of false accusations of self-righteous people. Also, you didn't answer a LOT of my questions. Only picking up a few things. Btw, if it sounds like I'm trying to accuse or offend you, it's not like this. As I said, I'm a bit overheated and can't think straight.
 

SerikoLee

Chaos Realm Creator/ Chaos God
Joined
Apr 20, 2021
Messages
136
Points
43
48 Chapters 7 Chapters/Week 375 Readers
Here is my latest stats today but when comparing a few of my chapters to anime series i like made a few raise their pitch forks at me tho.
 

ohko

tilda~ me~ home~ ♪
Joined
Dec 23, 2018
Messages
347
Points
133
No one is prosecuted. Yeah, that's the problem. People get shunned to the point they lose their jobs. Because of false accusations of self-righteous people. Also, you didn't answer a LOT of my questions. Only picking up a few things. Btw, if it sounds like I'm trying to accuse or offend you, it's not like this. As I said, I'm a bit overheated and can't think straight.
I mean I answered the things that seemed to be your main points because it's easy to derail if we went down every rabbit hole. My main point is that that 'cancel culture' (aka shunning people for controversial things) is a natural habit of the human species and it's impossible to stop, just like it's impossible to stop people from automatically judging people.

Okay, somewhere in the Caucasian countries, you might end up dead for being gay. Just because these people killed gays like thousand years before, we should think of this as 'their culture' and accept this? After all, the social world is cruel, right? Why do you choose to be gay in a place where you can't be gay? Bad, bad gay.
We criticize laws. In certain countries you can be legally executed for being gay, hence the law is criticized.

People bickering with each other (when there is no laws either way) is a normal part of every society. Getting too invested in this type of bickering is a waste of your time.

Now let's proceed to the classical victim-blaming. So, a person had serious health issues, and he kills himself because he lost HIS FREAKING LIFE. He lost his job, his most trusted friends turned away from him, he got called a rapist, and no one wants to have anything to do with him. Because his name became a toxic brand. Because he was canceled.
In many situations, it's rather unclear who is the victim (particularly in rape cases). If you view the accused rapist as the victim, what does that make the rape victim?

What about shooters who shoot up elementary schools? Most of them end up killing themselves after shooting a couple dozen students, so is the shooter a victim as well?

This type of nuance is really difficult to process. In the end, everyone is in pain.

Also, by your logic. Back in the middle ages, some people were slaves of other people. SO, we should return slavery? Because it was prevalent, you know. There are even entire books saying how good slavery is.
No, that isn't my point. My point is that judging people is a fundament fact of human nature that has existed way back before the Middle Ages.

I'm not saying that judging people is good (or bad).

I'm saying that human beings will always judge other human beings, and you can't stop human beings from judging each other.


The thing with all these canceling, precisely, the fact that they don't pick a fight with 'real' evil. They chose those who are weaker. Do people support Belarus? Do people support Hong Kong? Do people support Uyghurs? Do people fight for LGBTQ+ rights in countries where there are no rights for the said minorities? NO. They pick a fight they can win to make them feel good. They don't even need to think if this fight is righteous or not. Fuck it, I heard of Amazon employees suffering. Does anyone fight for their rights? Like, stop ordering anything from Amazon? Fight Amazon with capitalism, strike Amazon with money by decreasing their revenue? No?
I think this only relates to specific incidents of 'canceling' that you've tunnel visioned onto.

The Catholic Church was also 'canceled' by Millennials in the 21st century. People don't call it 'canceling' (since it's a widely spread belief), but many people feel that catholic priests are pedophiles.

I feel like you are using the term 'canceled' to refer to things that you don't agree with. What about things that were canceled that you did agree with? For instance, Hillary Clinton was quite popular in the 2000's. However, around 2016 she ended up 'canceled' because of her emails. What's your opinion of that?

There is a saying in my native language, a small victorious war. I believe there is something similar in English, a splendid small war. In the past, the government of a certain country needed to unite the country, the people. As they couldn't do ANYTHING to actually make the lives of people better, they started a war. A war that they thought they would win quickly, thus diverting the attention of the people. Making them elated that their country is strong, that they belong to something great. And all those canceling people, each and every one of them leading those splendid small wars. To make themselves feel better.
I don't think people believe that they are waging a war. I think that's an overexageration. The comparison of being socially ruined to "lynching" (physically killing someone) is also an overexaggeration.

When people say that they hate Hillary Clinton or Donald Trump, most people only say it but don't really do that much about it. At most, they post and rage about it on Twitter but don't do anything else. I don't think many people believe that they are fighting for a greater cause -- they are just saying what the belief and it becomes a cesspool of twitter comments that people spent 5 seconds writing.
 

GodlyKamui

Onee-san Smut Enjoyer
Joined
Mar 14, 2021
Messages
129
Points
133
I mean I answered the things that seemed to be your main points because it's easy to derail if we went down every rabbit hole. My main point is that that 'cancel culture' (aka shunning people for controversial things) is a natural habit of the human species and it's impossible to stop, just like it's impossible to stop people from automatically judging people.


We criticize laws. In certain countries you can be legally executed for being gay, hence the law is criticized.

People bickering with each other (when there is no laws either way) is a normal part of every society. Getting too invested in this type of bickering is a waste of your time.


In many situations, it's rather unclear who is the victim (particularly in rape cases). If you view the accused rapist as the victim, what does that make the rape victim?

What about shooters who shoot up elementary schools? Most of them end up killing themselves after shooting a couple dozen students, so is the shooter a victim as well?

This type of nuance is really difficult to process. In the end, everyone is in pain.


No, that isn't my point. My point is that judging people is a fundament fact of human nature that has existed way back before the Middle Ages.

I'm not saying that judging people is good (or bad).

I'm saying that human beings will always judge other human beings, and you can't stop human beings from judging each other.



I think this only relates to specific incidents of 'canceling' that you've tunnel visioned onto.

The Catholic Church was also 'canceled' by Millennials in the 21st century. People don't call it 'canceling' (since it's a widely spread belief), but many people feel that catholic priests are pedophiles.

I feel like you are using the term 'canceled' to refer to things that you don't agree with. What about things that were canceled that you did agree with? For instance, Hillary Clinton was quite popular in the 2000's. However, around 2016 she ended up 'canceled' because of her emails. What's your opinion of that?


I don't think people believe that they are waging a war. I think that's an overexageration. The comparison of being socially ruined to "lynching" (physically killing someone) is also an overexaggeration.

When people say that they hate Hillary Clinton or Donald Trump, most people only say it but don't really do that much about it. At most, they post and rage about it on Twitter but don't do anything else. I don't think many people believe that they are fighting for a greater cause -- they are just saying what the belief and it becomes a cesspool of twitter comments that people spent 5 seconds writing.
Well, the Catholic Church also did some cancellations throughthout history... Ah, the Dark Ages...

Let's not forget the Spanish Inquisitions or the Crusades... :blob_evil_two:

So yeah, cancelling people is in our nature.
 

RepresentingWrath

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 7, 2020
Messages
13,555
Points
283
I mean I answered the things that seemed to be your main points because it's easy to derail if we went down every rabbit hole. My main point is that that 'cancel culture' (aka shunning people for controversial things) is a natural habit of the human species and it's impossible to stop, just like it's impossible to stop people from automatically judging people.


We criticize laws. In certain countries you can be legally executed for being gay, hence the law is criticized.

People bickering with each other (when there is no laws either way) is a normal part of every society. Getting too invested in this type of bickering is a waste of your time.


In many situations, it's rather unclear who is the victim (particularly in rape cases). If you view the accused rapist as the victim, what does that make the rape victim?

What about shooters who shoot up elementary schools? Most of them end up killing themselves after shooting a couple dozen students, so is the shooter a victim as well?

This type of nuance is really difficult to process. In the end, everyone is in pain.


No, that isn't my point. My point is that judging people is a fundament fact of human nature that has existed way back before the Middle Ages.

I'm not saying that judging people is good (or bad).

I'm saying that human beings will always judge other human beings, and you can't stop human beings from judging each other.



I think this only relates to specific incidents of 'canceling' that you've tunnel visioned onto.

The Catholic Church was also 'canceled' by Millennials in the 21st century. People don't call it 'canceling' (since it's a widely spread belief), but many people feel that catholic priests are pedophiles.

I feel like you are using the term 'canceled' to refer to things that you don't agree with. What about things that were canceled that you did agree with? For instance, Hillary Clinton was quite popular in the 2000's. However, around 2016 she ended up 'canceled' because of her emails. What's your opinion of that?


I don't think people believe that they are waging a war. I think that's an overexageration. The comparison of being socially ruined to "lynching" (physically killing someone) is also an overexaggeration.

When people say that they hate Hillary Clinton or Donald Trump, most people only say it but don't really do that much about it. At most, they post and rage about it on Twitter but don't do anything else. I don't think many people believe that they are fighting for a greater cause -- they are just saying what the belief and it becomes a cesspool of twitter comments that people spent 5 seconds writing.
I totally agree that people would judge and shun others. But we shouldn't tolerate it and fight it in one way or another. When you get a hater, you can block the hater. When you get a person who is self-righteous after yourself, this person will try to ruin you. We should not let people like this act as they want.

Criticizing the law doesn't do shit. That's the problem. People don't do ACTUAL righteous deeds to support someone. They choose something easy to do. Like go and report someone on Twitter and ask that the said person got banned from everywhere and get his only source of revenue taken away. It's an easy thing to do. Sending ACTUAL humanitarian help is hard. Spend a few minutes against spending money but helping a person. Most of those canceling people would never choose to spend money. They would use an excuse that the said help won't reach the person in need. And it might be true, but what if the said help ACTUALLY reach the person? They don't even want to try and find an excuse.

As for who is a victim, and who is not? Well, that's why we have court. YES, the law is imperfect. YES, it can be bent, and it can be wrong. HOWEVER, the chance of punishing the person in wrong much higher. You said jurors are subjective to emotions. Well, aren't the crowd of accusers subjective to emotions as well? The thing is, when you go to court, there is a definitive victim and the assailant. The court might be wrong. BUT IF the court is right, then the assailant OR the victim who falsely accused got punished. As I said, a crowd in wrong can't be punished.

Racism is a fundamental fact of human nature as well. It stems from the fear of the unknown. Okay, in English this saying might be wrong. In my native language, the meaning of racism didn't change, and the meaning behind my word is true. What I want to say, we fight with racism as we think it's wrong, right? That means we should fight with shunning as well. It's not like people stop fighting with racism just because there are still racists, right?

As I said before, I don't live in the USA. Don't appeal to me with the culture or political stuff from there. I know SOME stuff, but not everything. As for the tunneling my vision. What I meant there, that people don't fight with 'evil' if the said evil is increasing the quality of their life. The church doesn't do a thing nowadays, while, for example, some companies that are two-faced provide entertainment. Or good food or high-tech stuff. I don't know of a good example. It would be Blizzard, I guess? They banned a person who supported Hong Kong in their tournament. They said political stuff isn't welcomed here. A few weeks later, they bashed Trump. Let's say Trump is bad, and they did a just thing. Then why the fuck ban a person who supported Hong Kong? The answer is, China brings in a lot of money to blizzard. Was Blizzard boycotted? Did people ACTUALLY do at least something to bring justice? Like, stop playing and paying for their games? No. They have works, and they want to simply chill in their favorite World Of Warcraft. But they would bash Trump or bash a 'rapist' on Twitter as it only costs them like a minute or so.

As for war, I never said that those people think of this as war. It's what they do. They do something small, diverting their attention from REAL problems. And they do it with the help of some social problems, to make themselves feel better. As for socially ruined people. Look. Let's imagine there is an artist. The only way he earns money is by doing art. Then, this person started getting canceled because he made fan art. And a character on the said fan art is of different skin color, and it's cultural appropriation and so on. So, his name became a toxic brand, he gets banned from Patreon, ko-fi, and other similar sites. Yes, he isn't killed. But his life is ruined. And also, sometimes, being alive with a tarnished reputation is worse than death. There are rape victims who tell that it scarred them for life, right? Imagine if you are FALSELY accused by someone vindictive of being a rapist. HOW would people look at you?

Also, I think we should stop this conversation before it goes out of hand(it already did). If you want, we can continue via DMS. I'm always up for a talk.
 

AliceShiki

Magical Girl of Love and Justice
Joined
Dec 23, 2018
Messages
3,529
Points
183
That is not what am talking about , there's goblin slayer and other series , that people out right attacked.
My series is like goblin slayer when nearing the end of my first volume.

True but am talking people attacking the series like the one's i grew to love.
One example: Interspecies Reviewers
So i compared one of my chapter that is like goblin and the sudden 1 star chance of that.
So, essentially, you compared your own series to a popular anime in the comments of your series and then got some 1* ratings because of that...?

Seems like someone was whimsical in giving 1*s and you're making a storm in a teacup. People rate stuff on their whims and you really shouldn't care for it, just keep writing, geez.
 

Ai-chan

Queen of Yuri Devourer of Traps
Joined
Dec 23, 2018
Messages
1,669
Points
153
Cancel culture is horrible. Ai-chan's sister sell cakes and just the other day she had an order for a moist chocolate cake. But after the cake was delivered, the customer cancelled the order, said his mother already bought another cake. Like what the fuck, man? The cake was already delivered, the delivery service was already paid, and now you want Ai-chan's sister to take back the cake?

People who cancel orders after it's already delivered should be jailed for six years.
 

RepresentingCaution

Level 37 ? ? Pronouns: she/whore ♀
Joined
Apr 15, 2020
Messages
9,775
Points
233
As long as you are writing the story you want to read, someone else will also love it! Take mine, for example. There is a reason I thrive on one-star ratings!
 
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