AI Protection Act. Discrimination against AI

[unlaumy]

The point isn't whether someone has morals or not. This AI hate isn't happening due to morals in the first place.

Why then?

And I could even find moral wrongness in using internet, then will you stop using internet for the sake of your morals? No, right?
Humans are the greatest evil from the perspective of the world, they are eating away at the world like termites and destroying other life without remorse for the sake of benefit. Now, why don't you go on the streets and shout "Death to HUMANITY!!!" for the sake of your morals? You wouldn't, right?
The world isn't one dimensional enough for you to classify things as good and evil. Almost everything will fall into the grey area if you only think hard enough. From the water you drink, the air you breathe, the food you eat and to your own existence.
So there is really no point in giving that morality chant.

If it betrays your morals enough, then you will stop using it. You do understand that each person has different morals, right? From the way I see it, you're the one who has a one dimensional view, it's either be an altruistic existence or you have to accept being a 'I have nothing to stand for' bitch.

But the point is, if you are watching One Piece and a few frames during a fight seem like they may have been created through AI, Does it make sense for you to disassemble that episode frame by frame in order to identify those AI generated frames? The episode was good and the AI frames didn't affect the quality of the episode in any way. You wouldn't even notice them if you don't explicitly try to identify them. Then why the hell will you criticize that episode only because of those AI frames.
You wanted to watch an episode for entertainment and you did. Does it make sense for you to criticize something that perfectly serves it's purpose? That too for such an irrelevant reason? That would just be toxicity.

I still don't get why you're insisting on this point. Whether anything is beautiful or not doesn't matter, the process that makes it exist is the problem. Some people can enjoy media without being bothered that its creator is a rapist/serial killer/whatever thing, but some can't do that. What, I have to cry for the ants that I accidentally stepped on first to justify the latter position? What are you, a fucking kid? Do you have to view everything in two boxes so that everything makes sense to you?

I don't even inherently disagree with AI, but I still know you have stupid takes here.

 

[Cardon]

But things like anime and games fall into product category rather that art category.

This snippet alone already tells me that your opinion shouldn't be taken seriously.

 

[Avarice_Of_The_Seven]

I still don't get why you're insisting on this point. Whether anything is beautiful or not doesn't matter, the process that makes it exist is the problem. Some people can enjoy media without being bothered that its creator is a rapist/serial killer/whatever thing, but some can't do that. What, I have to cry for the ants that I accidentally stepped on first to justify the latter position? What are you, a fucking kid? Do you have to view everything in two boxes so that everything makes sense to you?

I don't even inherently disagree with AI, but I still know you have stupid takes here.

I understand what you are trying to say and yes, you are correct. Those who can't do it has the right to criticize it. And I don't even disagree with the points that everyone has mentioned about the harms and flaws of AI are all correct. I even agree with most of those points.

But not everyone that spreads AI hate has that point of view. Most people don't even know why AI is bad and whether or not they can tolerate those points. They heard that AI is bad and so they spread AI hate everywhere just because they used AI. Otherwise, there wouldn't be so much hate in the first place.
If someone wants entertainment and does not care about things like morality or other things then do they have the right to criticize something for it just because it was defined as wrong?

And don't get me wrong, I know that things like anime and games among other things are art. but that's not how a market works. If there is a demand for something then companies will make a business out of it. They will create it for the purpose of generating profit. In this case, whether or not the thing they created is art or not is secondary. It will be first and foremost a product that has the sole purpose to generate profit. And in this case, the product's functionality matters more than it's existence as art. (believe me, I'm in this field)

And you might argue that those who are against AI are all doing this because of their principles and whatnot. but that is not how crowd hate and mass psychology works. There will obviously be those who hate it due to valid reason but most just spread hate because that is what everyone else is doing without any valid reason.

If you can't tolerate then you obviously have the right to criticize. Your morals are your morals but not everyone will have the same morals as you.





Well, seems like most people didn't understand what I was trying to say. And this thread has lost it's purpose and become a ragebait thread.
In order to not incite more conflict than necessary and avoid excessive rage bait, I'm gonna have to end the discussion here. You can create a new thread if you wanna continue this discussion then you may create a new thread.


So... Pika pika pika, pika pi pikaa chu (This thread is now closed cuz I'm not a keyboard warrior)

 

[laccoff_mawning]

But is this thread closed? Is it really?

It will be first and foremost a product that has the sole purpose to generate profit.

I've always found this perspective to be ugly. The love of money is the root of all evil, after all.

It doesn't matter how a product is created as long as it's good enough.

Maybe you need to rethink your opinion on this. I'm sure given a few minutes you could come up with concrete examples of why the method matters.

 

[Avarice_Of_The_Seven]

But is this thread closed? Is it really?

Well, you can't really close a thread here so the only way to close it is to declare it as such.

Maybe you need to rethink your opinion on this. I'm sure given a few minutes you could come up with concrete examples of why the method matters.

Well, that is not my opinion, it's more of a logical reasoning.

let's take spoon as an example;

Spoons can be both an artwork and a kitchen utensil.

A spoon that is shown in art galleries as an art piece will obviously be praised or criticized for its origin of creation and the involvement of factors like whether or not machines were involved in it's creation.

But a spoon that you buy as a kitchen utensil only needs to serve that purpose. You can obviously still define this spoon as art as well but it would be pointless. That spoon was made as a product and needs to function as a product. Would it matter if that spoon was made by a human blacksmith or a machine? It only needs to function as a spoon and then it is a good spoon.

 

[DharmaCA]

I am only talking about my personal experience and do not intend to make any kind of statement.


Personally, I have a love–hate relationship with AI. On one hand, as a writer who has spent years honing my craft, I feel that the presence of AI is a threat and somewhat belittles my hard-earned efforts. Even if AI still cannot rival human writers in long-form narratives, the fact that AI-generated writing is saturating the market is already enough to make me feel threatened.


On the other hand, I have a dream of creating my own game, and this is something I couldn’t realistically do on my own before. But now, with the help of AI, I can accelerate my coding learning process, and AI itself can streamline many aspects of programming. In just two months of learning from scratch, I was already able to create my own vertical-scrolling top-down shooter. My dream has come that much closer to realization. In this regard, I’m glad AI has entered my life.


By the way, I don’t plan to sell my game, because the unclear state of AI-related copyright law makes me afraid of potential legal issues. Even if I ever do sell it someday, I would include a disclaimer stating that the game was made with the assistance of AI.

 

[laccoff_mawning]

That spoon was made as a product and needs to function as a product.

This is correct. It is necessary for a product to serve it's purpose as a product.

But a spoon that you buy as a kitchen utensil only needs to serve that purpose.

But this I do not agree with, and it doesn't strictly follow from the former.

Would it matter if that spoon was made by a human blacksmith or a machine? It only needs to function as a spoon and then it is a good spoon.

If, hypothetically, the spoon is made by some machine that is powered by the sacrifices of firstborn sons offered unto it every sunrise, then I think it does matter how the spoon is made.

For more real world examples, my immediate thoughts are fairtrade products, free range eggs and poultry, child labour/forced labour products, also the existence of minimum wages, workers rights, and the abolision of slavery. So in human history, there appears to be quite a few examples of times when humans decided that the method in which commercial products are created are important.

 

[Nevafrost]

After reading ALL the posts here, I do think this thread is a ragebait.

 

[Avarice_Of_The_Seven]

After reading ALL the posts here, I do think this thread is a ragebait.

I think so too, that's why I closed it.

Most people think from different perspective so it's obvious that they wouldn't understand my point. And arguing will only result in fueling ragebait.

 

[JHarp]

You wanted a plushie and you got one, does it matter whether if that plushie was made by skinning alive someone's cat or not.

The entire cosmetics industry, most of the meat industry, theres a reason many food products, especially in america are looked down on for the way they are made. There is a push for more ethical and more humane development of even the most basic needs, the things that; arguably 'shouldn't matter' if you were just meeting a quota.

Asking if people care about how something is made when entire industries had to respond to the fact people do; to make them more ethical is a strange one.

And I don't even disagree with the points that everyone has mentioned about the harms and flaws of AI are all correct. I even agree with most of those points.

As for this, since I don't care enough to actually enter the topic, most of what you have been saying; even if you agree, from a basic look, doesn't shift. At no point do you build on someone elses idea, you generally rehash or argue the previous point you made, thats usually where a lot of people run into conflict for these topics.

Lets refute a simple rule that got shoehorned in as false inevitability framing for example: 'All technological adoption is inevitable'
Uh yeah, thats why Google Glass is still a thing, Segways have been the primary form of transportation, we all now have 3D TVs after those got invented. Minidisc became the new rewritable digital audio format while LaserDiscs superior quality definitely meant it stuck around and didn't die due to higher cost and size.



Since I apparently have a habit in this forum for calling out 'weird persuasion tactics', since people keep posting really aggravating and challenging messages while trying their hardest to devalue anyone else they talk about:

Spoiler

As a bonus feedback, infantilization combined with depersonalization as a pre-emptive delegitimization tactic.
People who seem to fall into a group or crowd, calling them 'pikachus' or whatever, can show a lack of actual care and nuisance on the subject. Dismissing them as incapable of real speech, treating them as a mascot by removing language for conversation while flattening them into a single caricature while poisoning the well.
Even the baited hostility loop, repeatedly insulting 'pikachus' as a group; 'This isn't a rage bait, I'm just attacking this group of unknowns I've uniquely categorised'.

If you actually were holding a conversation on any of this topic against people who had enough energy to fight it, we would be taking about how you lower the acceptable bar for harm regarding jobs, how your constant reclassification of art vs product to shift when ethics matters without any actual justification.
I object to your group abstraction as a dismissal, I could not care less about the term as an insult; which you will likely now apply to me because I took the measure of mentioning it and someone will try to call this 'defensive'. Instead I'm doing a fun thing called Praeteritio, theres your word of the day.

First step to having a conversation, a debate about furthering understanding, is to treat the people you plan to speak with as equals, that tends to help with introspection.

Either way that isn't an attack, I just keep seeing these weird posts that use an aggressive number of persuasion tactics while trying to make their point seem good. Training people how to feel about dissent isn't a conversation.

Have a good holiday everyone.

 

[Alski]

I think so too, that's why I closed it.

You do know there is a way for you to close your own thread, but im not gona tell you

 

[Hans.Trondheim]

@justabot please look into this thread; I think OP is requesting this one to be closed/locked for further replies. Thank you!

 

[tiaf]

Just gonna say that OP is quite ignorant and the necessity of using AI for anime and games means there is a lack of human resources. HR usually means the payment/work conditions is awful compared to the demanded workload and the required skills.

Companies using AI gives them more excuse to demand more from artists and animators. Less human involvement will lead to drop of quality in the long term as less humans will be involved and less new ideas can be born from it.

 

[Avarice_Of_The_Seven]

Just gonna say that OP is quite ignorant and the necessity of using AI for anime and games means there is a lack of human resources.

who or what is this OP?

 

[LeilaniOtter]

AI art to an artist is like if someone took your beloved cat, killed it in front of you, skinned and butchered it to figure out the shape of it's internals, and then used that as a reference to mass produce plushies recreations of it for profit in factories that spew poison everywhere, and also the plushies are also shit quality and inconsistent af. The end result is insulting, a mockery of the soul that was there before, and the process which enabled it in the first place was evil.

I wish I could quote this and steal it. This is exactly how I feel about AI art.

 

[Worthy39]

Well, I don't hate the use of AI in general. Though admittedly, OPM season 3 really sucked at using it. A scene where a girl had a bandage in one frame, and in the next one just doesn't? That's just lazy.

As for others using it in games and anime, I think you just insulted game developers, Manga artists, TV producers, animators, and writers everywhere by saying that those things aren't art. Art isn't just a picture, it's a form of expression, which can come in many different forms. The internet may have put people out of work, but it also created new job opportunities and still was run pretty much entirely by humans. AI? That's just people losing jobs, there's no true benefit from it, people don't gain anything from the slop AI makes, people don't get new job opportunities from AI becoming more popular, we just lose quality and jobs.

AI is fine if the person making it takes the time to ensure what comes out is quality, not just sloppy images, code, animation, or whatever else they may use it for. But what's not okay is people laying off quality employees they can easily afford just to replace them with AI because it's cheaper, despite being far worse at the job.

 

[MafiaNoble]

I don't really mind the use of ai, what I mind though is the obviously ugly and intolerably weird art and videos of ai.

At least make it a tolerable ai art before you post it.

I was messing around with ChatGPT this week, generated some images and was surprised by how far image generated improved in the 5.2 model. It could not only accurate follow description generations but also remove or add things from the picture or change outfits while keeping the character intact (no hallucination).

I find it a little hypocritical that people can buy cheap shoes without thinking about the child labour involved in those, or buy the cheaper groceries not minding the working conditions in the country they come from. But when it comes to AI they talk about how it steals their work or has ethical concerns.

 

[Avarice_Of_The_Seven]

Well, I don't hate the use of AI in general. Though admittedly, OPM season 3 really sucked at using it. A scene where a girl had a bandage in one frame, and in the next one just doesn't? That's just lazy.

As for others using it in games and anime, I think you just insulted game developers, Manga artists, TV producers, animators, and writers everywhere by saying that those things aren't art. Art isn't just a picture, it's a form of expression, which can come in many different forms. The internet may have put people out of work, but it also created new job opportunities and still was run pretty much entirely by humans. AI? That's just people losing jobs, there's no true benefit from it, people don't gain anything from the slop AI makes, people don't get new job opportunities from AI becoming more popular, we just lose quality and jobs.

AI is fine if the person making it takes the time to ensure what comes out is quality, not just sloppy images, code, animation, or whatever else they may use it for. But what's not okay is people laying off quality employees they can easily afford just to replace them with AI because it's cheaper, despite being far worse at the job.

Now everyone is just criticizing me for no reason. I never said that horrible AI slop is good.
Seriously, now this is really just ragebait. Everyone is trying to prove a point that I didn't even make. It would be pointless to argue with you if you didn't even understand the context of the thread properly.

Ugh, I'm never doing this again. And this thread is closed, by the way (dunno why the MOD's haven't closed it yet)

 

[LeilaniOtter]

Now everyone is just criticizing me for no reason. I never said that horrible AI slop is good.
Seriously, now this is really just ragebait. Everyone is trying to prove a point that I didn't even make. It would be pointless to argue with you if you didn't even understand the context of the thread properly.

Ugh, I'm never doing this again. And this thread is closed, by the way (dunno why the MOD's haven't closed it yet)

You're bound to get differing and sometimes incendiary feedback when you state an opinion.

This is how the internet works. Don't take it to heart. It's perfectly normal. ?

 

[Zinless]

Thread locked under OP's request