Advice for a newbie?

[ninyakitty1998]

Haven't had that happen yet, but my two gay romance books haven't reached the gay yet, so that might be it. My main project got stomped though. Like, unnecessarily so. Everybody says that, I know, but getting a 5 Star Review and and not even an hour later a 2 Star, which is coincidentally the lowest you can give without reading the book? Also, that happened for months until my score went below 4 Stars. It didn't really stop, I think, just got less. Anyway, two completely ridiculous Reviews sitting on top of my story page later, someone leaves a 5 Star Review, saying they were worried because of the rating and the critical reviews, that all but said the same, yet with no input on how these things played out. Like, all empty phrases, no substance to their claims, even when I explicitely asked. The Review then went on to say they found it a great story instead. Some people can be super nice, after all.
Don't get me wrong, I have no problem with people disliking my stuff, but I do have a problem with saying a bunch of nothing and pretending that's a valid review. By the way the few things said would also kind of contradict each other or simply make no sense, it also doesn't feel genuine at all.

Someone literally opened my book and gave me a 0.5, twice, right after I had said in a forum that one of my books was queer. (all of them have at least one queer couple, cause I like to rep everyone in my stories, but still). It was literally a huge slap in the face. RR reader's are really petty, too. No one wants to interact with your story at all, but they get pissed if you don't post eighteen chapters a day. It's ridiculous over there, but I heard nothing but good things about them, so I gave them a go. IDK how true those claims are anymore.

 

[TheKillingAlice]

Someone literally opened my book and gave me a 0.5, twice, right after I had said in a forum that one of my books was queer. (all of them have at least one queer couple, cause I like to rep everyone in my stories, but still). It was literally a huge slap in the face. RR reader's are really petty, too. No one wants to interact with your story at all, but they get pissed if you don't post eighteen chapters a day. It's ridiculous over there, but I heard nothing but good things about them, so I gave them a go. IDK how true those claims are anymore.

I'm a bit wary now, because the word "representation" doesn't ring well in art, especially in stories. You can make everyone gay, if your story supports it and speaks to the right audience, but you should write in a way that makes sense, not to represent whatever. And seeing how many really shitty stories have been produced in pursuit of "representation" I wonder if that had anything to do with it. But other than that, I could see that happening to a regular or even really good story (no matter what's in it!) - I also got one 0.5 Star Rating once, after getting a few good ones in a row, by someone who likely just clicked into the story without even reading it, because it fit the pattern too well for it to be organic and if it were organic, fine bro, but in that case, why not leave even a single fucking comment, telling me what's so terribly wrong with my story? If you're too lazy for that, don't bother leaving a trace at all.
I also got that feeling with the anger at not posting - well, I didn't feel attacked or anything and I'm happy people comment at all, but getting a comment from certain readers only whenever the story was on hiatus (because I posted diligently, but had to go on hiatus for a couple of times, for numerous reasons, during the one year and two months the first season took me to write), asking when it would come back. As soon as it came back, nothing was heard of that reader. The first time, I thought they might have left, but at the second hiatus, they came back to ask again.

 

[ninyakitty1998]

I'm a bit wary now, because the word "representation" doesn't ring well in art, especially in stories. You can make everyone gay, if your story supports it and speaks to the right audience, but you should write in a way that makes sense, not to represent whatever. And seeing how many really shitty stories have been produced in pursuit of "representation" I wonder if that had anything to do with it. But other than that, I could see that happening to a regular or even really good story (no matter what's in it!) - I also got one 0.5 Star Rating once, after getting a few good ones in a row, by someone who likely just clicked into the story without even reading it, because it fit the pattern too well for it to be organic and if it were organic, fine bro, but in that case, why not leave even a single fucking comment, telling me what's so terribly wrong with my story? If you're too lazy for that, don't bother leaving a trace at all.
I also got that feeling with the anger at not posting - well, I didn't feel attacked or anything and I'm happy people comment at all, but getting a comment from certain readers only whenever the story was on hiatus (because I posted diligently, but had to go on hiatus for a couple of times, for numerous reasons, during the one year and two months the first season took me to write), asking when it would come back. As soon as it came back, nothing was heard of that reader. The first time, I thought they might have left, but at the second hiatus, they came back to ask again.

I didn't mean it to be offensive. I just like to have diverse characters is all. I get what you mean though. I'm happy to receive feedback in whatever form, whether good or bad, so it might have just been that my intro sucked that much to them, lol. It was just the circumstance in which I got the review that made it look fishy to me is all. I'm gonna check your work out, now. thanks for your advice!

 

[RepresentingWrath]

We can always ask @RedMuffin about RR...

 

[TheKillingAlice]

I didn't mean it to be offensive. I just like to have diverse characters is all. I get what you mean though. I'm happy to receive feedback in whatever form, whether good or bad, so it might have just been that my intro sucked that much to them, lol. It was just the circumstance in which I got the review that made it look fishy to me is all. I'm gonna check your work out, now. thanks for your advice!

You shouldn't immediately apologize for everything someone says - just a piece of advice. All I was saying was that it gave me an ick the way you phrased it, but since I don't know the story, it doesn't mean your story is bad or anything. Anyway, it's reasonable to question RR reviews. Like, seriously, I posted one review on there, and the story wasn't good, but all of the reviews came from Review swaps and the people never came back after leaving a glowing review. The comments were all the same, some things even kind of gave away they didn't enjoy the read and nobody noticed one crucial mistake that I caught easily, where a city was mentioned out of nowhere, in a way that implied one would need to know about it. Yeah, I trust you all read with true pleasure, alright.
Don't get me wrong, they might not have hated it as much as I did, but a full shelf of 5-Stars smells of desperation, because you want to be nice, if you want a nice review back, right? That's how swaps work, as far as I have looked at them, which is also why I only attended one. The only one who wasn't in on the joke was the author hosting all these swaps.

 

[CharlesEBrown]

I also got one 0.5 Star Rating once, after getting a few good ones in a row, by someone who likely just clicked into the story without even reading it, because it fit the pattern too well for it to be organic and if it were organic, fine bro, but in that case, why not leave even a single fucking comment, telling me what's so terribly wrong with my story? If you're too lazy for that, don't bother leaving a trace at all.

From some other comments I've seen, I suspect there are a few people who have bots that go down-vote any story that might challenge theirs in some way, and they unleash them for petty reasons (dislike the author? Unleash the rating bot! Dislike one of the tags the author used? Unleash the Rating Bot! Story passed yours in Trending? Unleash the Rating Bot!)...

I find it funny that gay characters are such a big deal. I started with one back in the early 90s and found if I have more than five characters in a story, one of them turns out to be some manner of LGBTQ+, whether I had intended that or not. It very rarely impacts the story as they are almost always support characters, but I did have fun with a scene where two characters who are also superheroes meet in their civilian identities. The male character has never seen the female one out of her costume, but she was there when he decided on what his would be. He tries to pick her up, and she says: "Nothing personal, but I'm a lesbian."
"Oh! I'm terribly sorry..."
"Don't be - I enjoy it."
Then, a few lines later, he heads off to work and she returns to her workout routine, and she says: "Oh, and Merry Christmas."
"I rather doubt that," he replies.
"Oh? Why?"
"I'm Jewish."
"Oh! I'm so sorry..."
"Don't be - I rather enjoy it!"

 

[ninyakitty1998]

You shouldn't immediately apologize for everything someone says - just a piece of advice. All I was saying was that it gave me an ick the way you phrased it, but since I don't know the story, it doesn't mean your story is bad or anything. Anyway, it's reasonable to question RR reviews. Like, seriously, I posted one review on there, and the story wasn't good, but all of the reviews came from Review swaps and the people never came back after leaving a glowing review. The comments were all the same, some things even kind of gave away they didn't enjoy the read and nobody noticed one crucial mistake that I caught easily, where a city was mentioned out of nowhere, in a way that implied one would need to know about it. Yeah, I trust you all read with true pleasure, alright.
Don't get me wrong, they might not have hated it as much as I did, but a full shelf of 5-Stars smells of desperation, because you want to be nice, if you want a nice review back, right? That's how swaps work, as far as I have looked at them, which is also why I only attended one. The only one who wasn't in on the joke was the author hosting all these swaps.

Totally understandable. I just looked at the shitty reviews and was like, ok, now I'm going to keep posting to spite you lol. I have confidence in my work, so that's all that matters at the end of the day. Not everything I write will take off, and I can accept that, so I'm just going to go with the flow. I've only been on RR for a month, and here for about three days, so I'm very early in the process for both sites. I like to get as much advice as I can from people all over each site so I can try and be successful.

From some other comments I've seen, I suspect there are a few people who have bots that go down-vote any story that might challenge theirs in some way, and they unleash them for petty reasons (dislike the author? Unleash the rating bot! Dislike one of the tags the author used? Unleash the Rating Bot! Story passed yours in Trending? Unleash the Rating Bot!)...

I find it funny that gay characters are such a big deal. I started with one back in the early 90s and found if I have more than five characters in a story, one of them turns out to be some manner of LGBTQ+, whether I had intended that or not. It very rarely impacts the story as they are almost always support characters, but I did have fun with a scene where two characters who are also superheroes meet in their civilian identities. The male character has never seen the female one out of her costume, but she was there when he decided on what his would be. He tries to pick her up, and she says: "Nothing personal, but I'm a lesbian."
"Oh! I'm terribly sorry..."
"Don't be - I enjoy it."
Then, a few lines later, he heads off to work and she returns to her workout routine, and she says: "Oh, and Merry Christmas."
"I rather doubt that," he replies.
"Oh? Why?"
"I'm Jewish."
"Oh! I'm so sorry..."
"Don't be - I rather enjoy it!"

I NEVER THOUGHT ABOUT THAT! That is interesting to say the least, about the bots. I don't get it either, RR seems to be weird about gay characters though. I've talked to others about this, and they have a hard time with that as well. I'm going to keep posting regardless, and worst case, I just take it down and publish it myself through kdp or something.
btw, I love that little quip of a scene lol.

 

[TheKillingAlice]

Totally understandable. I just looked at the shitty reviews and was like, ok, now I'm going to keep posting to spite you lol. I have confidence in my work, so that's all that matters at the end of the day. Not everything I write will take off, and I can accept that, so I'm just going to go with the flow. I've only been on RR for a month, and here for about three days, so I'm very early in the process for both sites. I like to get as much advice as I can from people all over each site so I can try and be successful.

Seems like you are already doing well on your way to handle it, so I doubt you will come across bigger problems. Still, getting readers is a good thing, especially if you wish to publish your books. As someone who doesn't have an editor myself when I self publish, I can tell you the scrutiny is a big thing. And editors are fucking expensive - if they are not, don't waste your money on them either.
In fact, I don't understand why the person putting in all the creative work and work (period) to write a book shouldn't be getting paid for it (then again, I recently opened a threat because I was shitting myself over adding donation links for my sites, so I shouldn't talk too big), especially since you can take a peek at the story and decide if you like it or not. I've held professionally published books in my hands with two errors on some of the pages, and no, in about 1.500 characters with spaces this should not be a thing for a professionally published book.
The fact that there's not just editors but correctors going over the story, that cost you literal thousands of bucks, is also the fact why I can't stand people nagging about typos in literal free fiction on the internet. Especially if it's not overly accessive. But I digress, so I'll stop before I've put you to sleep.

From some other comments I've seen, I suspect there are a few people who have bots that go down-vote any story that might challenge theirs in some way, and they unleash them for petty reasons (dislike the author? Unleash the rating bot! Dislike one of the tags the author used? Unleash the Rating Bot! Story passed yours in Trending? Unleash the Rating Bot!)...

I heard that as well, which is why I didn't wonder any more how they could be so accurate in literally coming up with a 2 Star, RIGHT after a 5 Star was given at any random moment you can imagine. Once that accuracy stopped, that 0.5 Star dropped. You can't get lower than 2 Star without reading, but makes sense why it would be a 2 Star, if going in an staying for a couple of minutes allowed you to go even lower (bots can't leave valid reads, after all).

 

[ninyakitty1998]

Seems like you are already doing well on your way to handle it, so I doubt you will come across bigger problems. Still, getting readers is a good thing, especially if you wish to publish your books. As someone who doesn't have an editor myself when I self publish, I can tell you the scrutiny is a big thing. And editors are fucking expensive - if they are not, don't waste your money on them either.
In fact, I don't understand why the person putting in all the creative work and work (period) to write a book shouldn't be getting paid for it (then again, I recently opened a threat because I was shitting myself over adding donation links for my sites, so I shouldn't talk too big), especially since you can take a peek at the story and decide if you like it or not. I've held professionally published books in my hands with two errors on some of the pages, and no, in about 1.500 characters with spaces this should not be a thing for a professionally published book.
The fact that there's not just editors but correctors going over the story, that cost you literal thousands of bucks, is also the fact why I can't stand people nagging about typos in literal free fiction on the internet. Especially if it's not overly accessive. But I digress, so I'll stop before I've put you to sleep.

I feel the exact same way. I have a degree in English, so I was like, well, if I can't edit my own work, then what the hell did I go to school for lol. I ideally would rather publish with a company, but I'm aware of how difficult that is nowadays, so I've been considering kdp. Editors literally just scalp naïve people and half the time, like you said, there are still errors in the copies. I honestly think sites like this are best forms of free editing; get your feedback by positing free fiction, then use that to edit your work and then self publish, or pray someone picks you up from RR or something. Publishing your work is like jumping through a flaming hoop sixty feet in the air, and if you're someone like me who has little to no knowledge on marketing, or ability to make character art, it's very hard. At the end of the day, we all write because we want to make something from it; I didn't write three books series only for fun, and though it may sound shallow, I want to make this my career one day, hence going to college for English lol. I still work full time and know that reality is hard to accomplish, but we can dream, can't we?

 

[TheKillingAlice]

I feel the exact same way. I have a degree in English, so I was like, well, if I can't edit my own work, then what the hell did I go to school for lol. I ideally would rather publish with a company, but I'm aware of how difficult that is nowadays, so I've been considering kdp. Editors literally just scalp naïve people and half the time, like you said, there are still errors in the copies. I honestly think sites like this are best forms of free editing; get your feedback by positing free fiction, then use that to edit your work and then self publish, or pray someone picks you up from RR or something. Publishing your work is like jumping through a flaming hoop sixty feet in the air, and if you're someone like me who has little to no knowledge on marketing, or ability to make character art, it's very hard. At the end of the day, we all write because we want to make something from it; I didn't write three books series only for fun, and though it may sound shallow, I want to make this my career one day, hence going to college for English lol. I still work full time and know that reality is hard to accomplish, but we can dream, can't we?

Right? And if you have a degree, all the better. I don't, but I still think my one-man-army style can work.
Sure, you have to make the difference between and editor and a proof reader (sorry, my brain was wired when I wrote corrector, because in German it's Korrektor), so just paying an editor won't erase all of your mistakes in the technical department, but that's the problem. You have two pay at least twice for that shit and nobody says just because it's someone who one day went to college, that everything will be fine. I literally want to hit people in the face, once the infamous sentence is being uttered: "Well, what is your book worth to you?"
It's such cheap emotional manipulation, because your sissy ass isn't gonna make my story the next Lord of the Rings or Harry Potter. All I want is to tell my story and if I can't even get the entire machine of a publishing house, their connections, marketing and the fact that my book will appear in physical stores, making it a million times more visible than on the internet, I don't even see why I should commit to changing my story. I'm that much on an asshole, but I know I'm the most ridiculous nerd when it comes to logic. I actually did publish a book via a small publishing house a few years back, and my editor cleaned up my wordings, while it all still sounded like my own, changing exactly nothing in the story itself, because it was apparently fine the way it was. LOL. Not that my ego wasn't already bloated enough, but again, I upload a lot of chapters to sneak peek into the book, so you can make your own choice. I hate it when people then say "Well, for a self published book..." - well, shut up. That just means I put in all the work myself.
Also, if you need help with your cover or with understanding the process in self publishing, I can help you out if you want. Also, also, nice to have character art, but it's not necessary. Just let the story speak for itself.

 

[John_Owl]

Hey all, question for you lovely people. How do you get the ball rolling on readers during your first days? Is it more organic, or is there things I should be doing to attract more readers? I'm new to the site so I thought I'd ask! Any need to knows or advice you have would be great to learn! Thanks for your time friendly folks :)

I just checked out your stats (Though I haven't read the series' yet). Those both look to be doing fairly well considering they're brand new. My notes:

Tags look fairly good. Boys love isn't as popular as girls love, but not bad. I'd focus more on one (That is, you can work on both, but I'd recommend having a main project and a side project). Further, mark your NSFW chapters as NSFW/18+/R18. let readers know which chapters are smutty, in case you have a handful that don't care about the story and just want to get to the sexy bits.

As has been said, try to have a good cushion of chapters for readers to really sink their teeth into at the start. New readers will get hooked by the first chapter, but readers will be more likely to return if they're invested (that is, they've already sunk time into it). It's not a fair comparison, but if you check out Fursekai (link in my sig) you'll see that I currently have 2 chapters and 33 readers. That's really low for me because I DIDN'T start off with a chunk of stories, but that would seem like a lot to a new writer because I have readers on here that know my work. point is follow my advice, not my actions.

Finally, be active here on the forums. and a HUGE part of that is include links in your sig. You'll see some have just word hyperlinks, others (like me) go the extra mile to include our covers. Unlike most, I also have a section below those that show the status of the stories in my sig.

That said, good luck!! SH can be tough to start out on, but once you're established, it can be a very kind and supportive place. Unlike some others *cough*RR*cough* our feedback is like 95% positive and criticisms are intended to help.

 

[beast_regards]

The Royal Road is actively hostile towards anyone, not just any specific group or genre.

It is designed purposefully this way. Anger creates engagement, engagement creates traffic, traffic creates revenue from (Google's) ads (ones you could block).

It also encourages spending, as it is impossible to survive without spending on ads, creating additional revenue from authors paying to survive the harsh competitive system, and force them to shape the story accordingly to be actively monetized, by both the site (site traffic) and the author (to have money to pay the site)

The high possibility that the story would be torpedoed motivates readers to spend on Amazon where you could buy the complete novel without it being sunk by rating.

 

[ninyakitty1998]

Right? And if you have a degree, all the better. I don't, but I still think my one-man-army style can work.
Sure, you have to make the difference between and editor and a proof reader (sorry, my brain was wired when I wrote corrector, because in German it's Korrektor), so just paying an editor won't erase all of your mistakes in the technical department, but that's the problem. You have two pay at least twice for that shit and nobody says just because it's someone who one day went to college, that everything will be fine. I literally want to hit people in the face, once the infamous sentence is being uttered: "Well, what is your book worth to you?"
It's such cheap emotional manipulation, because your sissy ass isn't gonna make my story the next Lord of the Rings or Harry Potter. All I want is to tell my story and if I can't even get the entire machine of a publishing house, their connections, marketing and the fact that my book will appear in physical stores, making it a million times more visible than on the internet, I don't even see why I should commit to changing my story. I'm that much on an asshole, but I know I'm the most ridiculous nerd when it comes to logic. I actually did publish a book via a small publishing house a few years back, and my editor cleaned up my wordings, while it all still sounded like my own, changing exactly nothing in the story itself, because it was apparently fine the way it was. LOL. Not that my ego wasn't already bloated enough, but again, I upload a lot of chapters to sneak peek into the book, so you can make your own choice. I hate it when people then say "Well, for a self published book..." - well, shut up. That just means I put in all the work myself.
Also, if you need help with your cover or with understanding the process in self publishing, I can help you out if you want. Also, also, nice to have character art, but it's not necessary. Just let the story speak for itself.

I 100000% agree. I think a one man army is just as, if not more, powerful. Self publishing is no small feat, and congrats on getting even a small press publish! I'm working on that right now myself. I think self publish has the same worth if not more, because we take even more risks, and have to front all of the work ourselves.

I just checked out your stats (Though I haven't read the series' yet). Those both look to be doing fairly well considering they're brand new. My notes:

Tags look fairly good. Boys love isn't as popular as girls love, but not bad. I'd focus more on one (That is, you can work on both, but I'd recommend having a main project and a side project). Further, mark your NSFW chapters as NSFW/18+/R18. let readers know which chapters are smutty, in case you have a handful that don't care about the story and just want to get to the sexy bits.

As has been said, try to have a good cushion of chapters for readers to really sink their teeth into at the start. New readers will get hooked by the first chapter, but readers will be more likely to return if they're invested (that is, they've already sunk time into it). It's not a fair comparison, but if you check out Fursekai (link in my sig) you'll see that I currently have 2 chapters and 33 readers. That's really low for me because I DIDN'T start off with a chunk of stories, but that would seem like a lot to a new writer because I have readers on here that know my work. point is follow my advice, not my actions.

Finally, be active here on the forums. and a HUGE part of that is include links in your sig. You'll see some have just word hyperlinks, others (like me) go the extra mile to include our covers. Unlike most, I also have a section below those that show the status of the stories in my sig.

That said, good luck!! SH can be tough to start out on, but once you're established, it can be a very kind and supportive place. Unlike some others *cough*RR*cough* our feedback is like 95% positive and criticisms are intended to help.

THANK YOU so much for your advice. I was just reading the know all forum for authors, so I plan to get a nice cushion up this weekend and post through the week before setting up my actual schedule. I have plenty of backlog thank goodness, lol. I really appreciate this, and can't wait to look into your work, too

The Royal Road is actively hostile towards anyone, not just any specific group or genre.

It is designed purposefully this way. Anger creates engagement, engagement creates traffic, traffic creates revenue from (Google's) ads (ones you could block).

It also encourages spending, as it is impossible to survive without spending on ads, creating additional revenue from authors paying to survive the harsh competitive system, and force them to shape the story accordingly to be actively monetized, by both the site (site traffic) and the author (to have money to pay the site)

The high possibility that the story would be torpedoed motivates readers to spend on Amazon where you could buy the complete novel without it being sunk by rating.

That's really good to know, thank you!

 

[TheKillingAlice]

The Royal Road is actively hostile towards anyone, not just any specific group or genre.

Exactly what I meant.

 

[RedMuffin]

We can always ask @RedMuffin about RR...

...So you summoned me to fight against the whole SHF as a RR champion?!

RR reader's are really petty, too.

No u!
^[a RR reader]

No one wants to interact with your story at all, but they get pissed if you don't post eighteen chapters a day. It's ridiculous over there

Bruh...

The only one who wasn't in on the joke was the author hosting all these swaps.

They'll learn it in time, I mean, there's even a user that literally has put that joke in their forum signature.

From some other comments I've seen, I suspect there are a few people who have bots that go down-vote any story that might challenge theirs in some way, and they unleash them for petty reasons (dislike the author? Unleash the rating bot! Dislike one of the tags the author used? Unleash the Rating Bot! Story passed yours in Trending? Unleash the Rating Bot!)...

^This u? Honestly, that's the most absurd conspiracy theory I have seen today, and I just woke up so we still have to see.

I NEVER THOUGHT ABOUT THAT!

I failed to save an innocent mind... May the creator have mercy on you lost lamb...

The Royal Road is actively hostile towards anyone,

I sometimes wonder what you guys have been through to reach that conclusion. Let me banish the negativity and make you HAPPY!

 

[CharlesEBrown]

View attachment 32439
^This u? Honestly, that's the most absurd conspiracy theory I have seen today, and I just woke up so we still have to see.

No, but mostly because I can't smoke. Well, unless someone lights me on fire - then I smoke a lot.

 

[TheKillingAlice]

They'll learn it in time, I mean, there's even a user that literally has put that joke in their forum signature.

Now I keep wondering what that signature said. Or do you mean my literal sentence? xD

 

[RedMuffin]

Now I keep wondering what that signature said. Or do you mean my literal sentence? xD

 

[TheKillingAlice]

View attachment 32442

Yeah that. I was in literally one and saw that clear as day. But the bro was 100 % sure they all loved his story for real and grew quite a high nose from it. Dude was the living embodiment of "I'm great, cause I've been listening to podcasts on how to write for so many hours". Every time I said something he did wasn't that good, with examples and reasoning, his main counter was that "Terry Pratchett does it too" as if comparing yourself to a best selling author was something that flies. Maybe they just write better than you and make it work?

 

[ninyakitty1998]

Yeah that. I was in literally one and saw that clear as day. But the bro was 100 % sure they all loved his story for real and grew quite a high nose from it. Dude was the living embodiment of "I'm great, cause I've been listening to podcasts on how to write for so many hours". Every time I said something he did wasn't that good, with examples and reasoning, his main counter was that "Terry Pratchett does it too" as if comparing yourself to a best selling author was something that flies. Maybe they just write better than you and make it work?

yikes......