Adventurer's Guild Adventurer's Guild - OOC Room

[GDLiZy]

For me this still misses on the Rank D exam theme.

I keep repeating this over an over (sorry! ) but I absolutely want to see failure/loss as part of the Rank D exam. It's frankly the only good point in the entire level progression that a serious roadblock in character development makes sense. At higher levels, characters start getting sufficiently strong enough that a roadblock can't be forced.

Maybe not everyone is happy to hear this, but I don't want to see any character smoothly surfing from level 1 to level 40 easily as if its a piece of cake to grind your way to level 40 in a straight upward trajectory. Rather, I have the view that characters need to experience failure. Most players seem to want to see their characters smoothly succeeding at every step of the way (even if they end up very battered), but I think giving characters a sense of defeat is essential at some point in their journey. The Rank D exam is the most convenient place to force characters to hit a low point (whether that is physically, emotionally, morally, or something else).

I'm highly reluctant to push an exam where the main conclusion is: "I need to make my character stronger / more OP!"

It's a very delicate balance, because if you push an exam that involves a laundry list of herculean feats, unless it's constructed in a sensitive way, people are somehow going to find a way to power their characters through without hitting that failure -- which misses the whole thematic point of the exam.

In either case, IMO this suggestion is a little to too specific, and it rehashes the Rank E exam too closely. I don't really see where the guild stands to benefit on sending Adventurer's on such a risky mission while intentionally handicapping their adventurers. It doesn't quite have the weight or significance that the Gelderholm Rank D exam has.

My personal view is that the Guild hands on Rank D promotions to adventurers who experience a heavy trial and sacrifice in the line of duty (e.g. in war). If the character didn't make a heavy sacrifice, I personally don't think they earned the Rank D.

This is in contrast with the objectives of the Rank E exam -- which serves to prove basic competency.

Well, I also tried to see how to make the character willingly sacrifice something, but, again, Spire Reef is a place that doesn't really have the concept of "duty" as it was a lawless state, every man for themselves. Sure, friendship and betrayal is a good way to sacrifice, but, I doubted that anyone would make their character backstabbed their friends. Mostly, it would affect the RP aspect of the Tavern ( Lots of people IC would be repulsed by the act of backstabbing, which we are trying to avoid since the Betray from AG exam was discussed ).

I was trying to make the "uncheatable/impossible" quest to avoid the smooth-sailing of the character, and I'm aware that doesn't really fit the theme of "honour and sacrifice" of the D-ranked. Because, in the environment of Spire Reef, it was pretty much impossible to do the honour part, and the sacrifice path would easily reach down to the villainy road, which restricted the RP.

 

[ohko]

Well, I also tried to see how to make the character willingly sacrifice something, but, again, Spire Reef is a place that doesn't really have the concept of "duty" as it was a lawless state, every man for themselves. Sure, friendship and betrayal is a good way to sacrifice, but, I doubted that anyone would make their character backstabbed their friends. Mostly, it would affect the RP aspect of the Tavern ( Lots of people IC would be repulsed by the act of backstabbing, which we are trying to avoid since the Betray from AG exam was discussed ).

I was trying to make the "uncheatable/impossible" quest to avoid the smooth-sailing of the character, and I'm aware that doesn't really fit the theme of "honour and sacrifice" of the D-ranked. Because, in the environment of Spire Reef, it was pretty much impossible to do the honour part, and the sacrifice path would easily reach down to the villainy road, which restricted the RP.

Mhm I’m also avoiding the honor theme for Spire Reef, and I’m leaning heavily towards the betrayal side for the greater good — or doing something very bad for a vaguely justifiable reason.

Any kind of loss.

 

[Nahrenne]

Mhm I’m also avoiding the honor theme for Spire Reef, and I’m leaning heavily towards the betrayal side for the greater good — or doing something very bad for a vaguely justifiable reason.

Any kind of loss.

How about there's just no D-rank exam in Spire Reef as the Guild has deemed it too lawless to uphold an upright environment for one?
'-'

X

 

[ohko]

How about there's just no D-rank exam in Spire Reef as the Guild has deemed it too lawless to uphold an upright environment for one?
'-'

X

That’s an option too, although I have ideas. I want to write some of the earlier quests before pitching them though.

 

[Nahrenne]

That’s an option too, although I have ideas. I want to write some of the earlier quests before pitching them though.

Okay.
I just felt like everyone was going in circles with ideas for the exam, is all.

X

 

[Deleted member 1244]

an impossible choice

DO you think people understand their creations?
Are people introspective enough to understand the underlying redeeming value of their character?

Can people answer properly if the quest is "Now do something that contradicts your greatest virtue"

Get a character to give up their pride, and be humiliated
Ask a character to give up Temperance by being reckless
have a character to lose their sense of justice by committing a great sin
a character to forgo their courage by running
a character to abandon selflessness by watching someone they could save die
etc etc etc

 

[Epsil]

That’s an option too, although I have ideas. I want to write some of the earlier quests before pitching them though.

Does it have to have a be just a sacrifice? What if the character undergoes a giant change, learning something new that could shatter their whole reality, changing their whole perspective on things. which creates an actual goal for them.

 

[Deleted member 1244]

Get a character to give up their pride, and be humiliated
Ask a character to give up Temperance by being reckless
have a character to lose their sense of justice by committing a great sin
a character to forgo their courage by running
a character to abandon selflessness by watching someone they could save die
etc etc etc

That might mean a private examiner tho

 

[ohko]

Does it have to have a be just a sacrifice? What if the character undergoes a giant change, learning something new that could shatter their whole reality, changing their whole perspective on things. Create an actual goal for them.

I'd be okay with it if it was presented through the context of a defeat / loss.

I mainly just don't want to see this:

• I'm level 1
• I'm level 5 - and I'm awesome
• I'm level 10 - I'm even more awesome now!
• I'm level 15 - I'm extra extra awesome!
• I'm level 25 - I'm super awesome admire me more now okay? I'm awesome!
• I'm level 40 - okay I can't think of anything else so I might as well make my character OP
• I'm level 60 - wait there's a level 60?

Basically I'm seeing the Rank D point as a critical benchmark where characters need to see their upward trajectory knocked down.

Career change, quarter life crisis, sure!

It doesn't have to be battle oriented.

 

[Ddraig]

DO you think people understand their creations?
Are people introspective enough to understand the underlying redeeming value of their character?

Can people answer properly if the quest is "Now do something that contradicts your greatest virtue"

Get a character to give up their pride, and be humiliated
Ask a character to give up Temperance by being reckless
have a character to lose their sense of justice by committing a great sin
a character to forgo their courage by running
a character to abandon selflessness by watching someone they could save die
etc etc etc

And this wont work on most blank slate characters..

 

[Nahrenne]

DO you think people understand their creations?
Are people introspective enough to understand the underlying redeeming value of their character?

Can people answer properly if the quest is "Now do something that contradicts your greatest virtue"

Get a character to give up their pride, and be humiliated
Ask a character to give up Temperance by being reckless
have a character to lose their sense of justice by committing a great sin
a character to forgo their courage by running
a character to abandon selflessness by watching someone they could save die
etc etc etc

I mean...Liana's kind of already experienced that when she found out what she did in her blood frenzy...those poor children...
She also experienced the loss of her body's purity to Jasper without her consent or being conscious when it happened...poor girl...
She loses her kindness and gentleness whenever she goes into vampire mode from blood lust - with her becoming vicious, cold and detached...
Her virtues are kindness, gentleness, bright personality and purity of the soul through piety, all of which have been lost at points and will continue to be lost at points...

I don't really see how such a quest/exam would work for Liana...

X

 

[Ddraig]

Honestly the idea of "sacrifice" does not even work in ic. The guild's job by providing exams is to test their abilities and acertain the value individual provides to the guild, not test their beliefs. It's a guild, not a cult.

 

[GDLiZy]

Mhm I’m also avoiding the honor theme for Spire Reef, and I’m leaning heavily towards the betrayal side for the greater good — or doing something very bad for a vaguely justifiable reason.

Any kind of loss.

What about a quest for we, the adventurers, to join a relatively famous pirate crew and spend our days and nights with them ( forming a bond of comradery through life-and-death situations ) and waited for the signalled from the Adventurer Guild. When the signalled came, without any exception, we killed the captain who shared booties with us, granted us home and sense of belonging, helped us through the storm and waves, then, bailed out?

The unique thing this quest has it going for is that "life is unpredictable and chaotic.". Maybe it's after a year, enough for us to almost consider leaving the guild, or just right after the captain helped you from falling into the water, forcing us into a super dilemma of "biting the hand that fed you". Just at the worst timing possible for our character to choose. How? Well, the AG is mysterious...

I think that it is cruel, but, well, ain't this the D-ranked, the most grim-dark one of all? ( If possible, I would like that the higher rank you are, the more depressing reality become. )

 

[Ddraig]

I still am not sure why are we not going with the treasure hunt idea, it is fun, it is exciting. Their could be deaths of people you have grown to know, you have to show leadership to not get rekt by a revolt etc.

 

[Nahrenne]

I still am not sure why are we not going with the treasure hunt idea, it is fun, it is exciting. Their could be deaths of people you have grown to know, you have to show leadership to not get rekt by a revolt etc.

I think the treasure hunting is for higher ranks.
'-'

X

 

[Deleted member 1244]

I don't really see how such a quest/exam would work for Liana...

True, but the virtue is only a... narrative tool... the nature of it is doing something the character could never do, or find enormous difficulty making possible.... So in a way the it could be as simple as to "be kind, love, go finds something to care about"

not test their beliefs. It's a guild, not a cult.

I understand what you mean, but from the guild's perspective in order to advance higher, one has to be able to have the mental fortitude to do something beyond their comfort zone, if you can't do that then just stay as rank E, which is fine.

At least that is how I see it, if it is at all realistic, which again it doesn't have to be... or could be a Rank C test even (moving the problem further away)

 

[ohko]

Honestly the idea of "sacrifice" does not even work in ic. The guild's job by providing exams is to test their abilities and acertain the value individual provides to the guild, not test their beliefs. It's a guild, not a cult.

It's not really an IC exam for "sacrifice". To some regard you can think of it as an indication of "maturity" or what distinguishes someone as "seasoned". I'm running with a more realistic definition of "seasoned" as someone who has experienced failure and the worst that life has to offer.

A character who has never experienced failure might as well be naive as a teenager -- at least, that's my sincere view.

From an OOC perspective, the exams serve to regulate character power levels. By forcing a character to fail a certain exam, it applies a ceiling on the invincibility of a character and forces players to think of ways their character might be fallible. In contrast, if you have an exam that involves doing 5 heroic feats (and winning), there's no ceiling on the power level -- and any character can easily breeze through it simply by adding a sufficient amount of plot armor or OP-ness.

What about a quest for we, the adventurers, to join a relatively famous pirate crew and spend our days and nights with them ( forming a bond of comradery through life-and-death situations ) and waited for the signalled from the Adventurer Guild. When the signalled came, without any exception, we killed the captain who shared booties with us, granted us home and sense of belonging, helped us through the storm and waves, then, bailed out?

The unique thing this quest has it going for is that "life is unpredictable and chaotic.". Maybe it's after a year, enough for us to almost consider leaving the guild, or just right after the captain helped you from falling into the water, forcing us into a super dilemma of "biting the hand that fed you". Just at the worst timing possible for our character to choose. How? Well, the AG is mysterious...

I think that it is cruel, but, well, ain't this the D-ranked, the most grim-dark one of all? ( If possible, I would like that the higher rank you are, the more depressing reality become. )

Definitely favor this. Actually, I'm thinking of building something similar -- basically a chain of quest requirements before the exam -- that entail building relationships with a series of sympathetic NPCs -- and then backstabbing them all for the greater good.

Of course this would require a battle during the backstabbing.

I still am not sure why are we not going with the treasure hunt idea, it is fun, it is exciting. Their could be deaths of people you have grown to know, you have to show leadership to not get rekt by a revolt etc.

This was generally on my mind for a Rank C exam.

The other thing is that it's too loose for an exam unless you constrain some specific parameters. If you let people run around for treasure -- it's either a huge arc that's bigger than a single quest report or a bit too loose to really find a plausible reason to force character development.

I understand what you mean, but from the guild's perspective in order to advance higher, one has to be able to have the mental fortitude to do something beyond their comfort zone, if you can't do that then just stay as rank E, which is fine.

Agreed.

 

[Nahrenne]

True, but the virtue is only a... narrative tool... the nature of it is doing something the character could never do, or find enormous difficulty making possible.... So in a way the it could be as simple as to "be kind, love, go finds something to care about"

Yes but...Liana can do that when she's not in blood-lust mode.
She went to an orphanage and gave away practically all of her money because she was saddened by their situation.
She spent a few hours playing with the children since it reminded her of what she used to do before she became a vampire and wanted to make them happy.
She's also grown to care about what Hejlikka and Julrik think of her.

I just don't see how that kind of exam would work for Liana...
*sigh*

nvm

It's not like she'll be going to Spire Reef anyway, so it's a bit redundant of me.
She'd honestly have more of a sense of loss and sacrifice by doing the Gelderholm exam - if she ever manages to leave the city, that is.

X

 

[Epsil]

Yes but...Liana can do that when she's not in blood-lust mode.
She went to an orphanage and gave away practically all of her money because she was saddened by their situation.
She spent a few hours playing with the children since it reminded her of what she used to do before she became a vampire and wanted to make them happy.
She's also grown to care about what Hejlikka and Julrik think of her.

I just don't see how that kind of exam would work for Liana...
*sigh*

nvm

It's not like she'll be going to Spire Reef anyway, so it's a bit redundant of me.
She'd honestly have more of a sense of loss and sacrifice by doing the Gelderholm exam - if she ever manages to leave the city, that is.

X

 

[Vanus]

I have to say even with all these suggestions put forward for this exam I don't see a single one that would deeply be emotionally scarring other than perhaps the first one where AIEO can't hide her secret agenda but that is 100% something I would not write her into doing. I'd rather have the daemon take over rather than that personally but that would be the end of the character for all intents and purposes.