A succubus that is also Christian?

[BetterNickPending]

Christianity, in fact, requires this good vs evil duality for it to exists.

You confused Christianity with Buddhism.
In Buddhism you have duality represented by Ying and Yang.
Good and evil are equal powers that coexist.

In Christianity de facto evil does not exist.
Calling something evil is just a mental shortcut.

In Christianity evil is defined as "lack of good". Therefore evil does not exist on it own.
Good is like light and evil is like darkness.
Darkness is just absence of light and do not have its own substance.
You can always shine in a dark place and disperse the darkness.
But you can not "shine" darkness to disperse light.
You can obscure a place to perceive it as being dark but if you remove the obstacle it will not remain dark and will be illuminated.

As people are lazy instead of saying "judging by his/her actions I see no good in that person" they simply say "that person is evil".
It is much easier to just brand someone as evil, than to analyse why someones actions lack good.
Part of human evolutionary success is thanx to ability of fast categorization and generalization.

So good can perfectly exist on its own without evil.


Back to demons. Each of them made a conscious decision to remove the good from its self. No matter the reasons that decision is final, absolute and irreversible.

If you shoot someone you can not take it back. You may regret it later as you suffer consequences of that action.
But you can not go back in time and stop the bullet.

The difference is that people are stupid and emotional. But then angels now devils, knew all the consequences of that choice before making it and than made it.

 

[Deleted member 84247]

You confused Christianity with Buddhism.
In Buddhism you have duality represented by Ying and Yang.
Good and evil are equal powers that coexist.

In Christianity de facto evil does not exist.
Calling something evil is just a mental shortcut.

In Christianity evil is defined as "lack of good". Therefore evil does not exist on it own.
Good is like light and evil is like darkness.
Darkness is just absence of light and do not have its own substance.
You can always shine in a dark place and disperse the darkness.
But you can not "shine" darkness to disperse light.
You can obscure a place to perceive it as being dark but if you remove the obstacle it will not remain dark and will be illuminated.

As people are lazy instead of saying "judging by his/her actions I see no good in that person" they simply say "that person is evil".
It is much easier to just brand someone as evil, than to analyse why someones actions lack good.
Part of human evolutionary success is thanx to ability of fast categorization and generalization.

So good can perfectly exist on its own without evil.


Back to demons. Each of them made a conscious decision to remove the good from its self. No matter the reasons that decision is final, absolute and irreversible.

If you shoot someone you can not take it back. You may regret it later as you suffer consequences of that action.
But you can not go back in time and stop the bullet.

The difference is that people are stupid and emotional. But then angels now devils, knew all the consequences of that choice before making it and than made it.

I have seldom seen a Christian that thinks that way. Usually, everything is black and white.

 

[John_Owl]

In Christianity, demons absolutely know Christ is real. They served Him at one point. However, since they're demons, this means they have since betrayed Him in favor of serving Lucifer, now satan. A demon loving Christ would make no sense. There's no theology supporting that demons can ever be forgiven for their betrayal, and they fear Christ. When Christ approached Legion, Legion reacted with fear and begged Christ only to cast Him out. Also Christianity is for humanity. It is stated Christ died for the sins of man, not demons, so a demon couldn't go the route we go.

This concept makes absolutely no sense from the get go. Most importantly...why? It isn't an interesting concept, it's just plain stupid.

i've got the perfect uno reverse card for this. Suspension of disbelief and "Demons exist outside of humanity's narrow scope".

that is to say, in a fictional world, whatever the writer writes is truth to that world. if they want to write a repentant demon that tries to find salvation in the love of christ, then so be it. I've written a succubus story where the succubus is less a demonic threat and more a demonic prostitute being pimped out by higher level demons. she gets summoned and decides "nah, i'm done with that. Ima just stay here with you."

and personally, I'm a fan of stories that show less black-and-white shades. like allowing demons to not be inherently evil, but simply a race in and of themselves, capable of both good and bad. I've seen this explained a number of ways, such as ancient humans saw them and assumed they were evil because they were terrified.

 

[georgelee5786]

i've got the perfect uno reverse card for this. Suspension of disbelief and "Demons exist outside of humanity's narrow scope".

that is to say, in a fictional world, whatever the writer writes is truth to that world. if they want to write a repentant demon that tries to find salvation in the love of christ, then so be it. I've written a succubus story where the succubus is less a demonic threat and more a demonic prostitute being pimped out by higher level demons. she gets summoned and decides "nah, i'm done with that. Ima just stay here with you."

and personally, I'm a fan of stories that show less black-and-white shades. like allowing demons to not be inherently evil, but simply a race in and of themselves, capable of both good and bad. I've seen this explained a number of ways, such as ancient humans saw them and assumed they were evil because they were terrified.

If he wanted to, he'd have to rewrite how Christianity works and it would just be a waste of time. It would be better to write a fictional story with a different, unique religion rather than twist the tenets of an already existing one

 

[John_Owl]

If he wanted to, he'd have to rewrite how Christianity works and it would just be a waste of time. It would be better to write a fictional story with a different, unique religion rather than twist the tenets of an already existing one

demons and their concepts aren't unique to Christianity. he wouldn't even have to bring up any religion when he could just say that the demons are a worldly species in and of themselves.

 

[Prince_Azmiran_Myrian]

How would people feel about a story of a succubus who loves Jesus Christ? Like she’s as close to a total nun as she can be and she’s as holy as a demon could ever be?

The reason this doesn't make sense is because demons are fallen for rebelling against God. Since Jesus IS God, then why would they have rebelled if they love Him?
Furthermore, if they loved Jesus then they would stop sinning and would no longer be a succubus.

Edit: I think I get what you are going for, but it might not just work as cleanly as you might want it to.

In the traditional view of Christianity, there's no way for demons to be forgiven, and also, no Demon would also desire forgiveness. It's all black and white. Christianity, in fact, requires this good vs evil duality for it to exists. People who do not follow the religion, or who are not such close followers of the Dogmas, are capable of wondering why it would be impossible for such an existence to not want to repent.

To write your story the way you want is to forgo doing any favours to people who are deeply religious. Some might even go as far to vocally cry accusing you of heresy, considering you are trying to brand what is supposed to be the personification of Evil into something capable of looking for the light. But the idea itself is not new, just to give an example, in Demon: The Fallen, from White Wolf (And now from Paradox Gaming), you have the idea that demons could be searching for redemption.

Whatever you decide, just know that some religious people can be very vocal about their "it's impossible" since their beliefs dictate that demons would never see the wrong of their doing, or doing so would never be forgiven no matter how much they repent. In your work, you're the creator, God, so you can also dictate the rules for whichever circumstances you so decide to do. There's no need to follow something which would make your story less interesting because a few are vocal it is impossible due to X, Y, or Z. You would probably be writing fiction, and fictions is about possibilities, not about the dreary reality which readers most often are tired from and seek escape.

You confused Christianity with Buddhism.
In Buddhism you have duality represented by Ying and Yang.
Good and evil are equal powers that coexist.

In Christianity de facto evil does not exist.
Calling something evil is just a mental shortcut.

In Christianity evil is defined as "lack of good". Therefore evil does not exist on it own.
Good is like light and evil is like darkness.
Darkness is just absence of light and do not have its own substance.
You can always shine in a dark place and disperse the darkness.
But you can not "shine" darkness to disperse light.
You can obscure a place to perceive it as being dark but if you remove the obstacle it will not remain dark and will be illuminated.

As people are lazy instead of saying "judging by his/her actions I see no good in that person" they simply say "that person is evil".
It is much easier to just brand someone as evil, than to analyse why someones actions lack good.
Part of human evolutionary success is thanx to ability of fast categorization and generalization.

So good can perfectly exist on its own without evil.


Back to demons. Each of them made a conscious decision to remove the good from its self. No matter the reasons that decision is final, absolute and irreversible.

If you shoot someone you can not take it back. You may regret it later as you suffer consequences of that action.
But you can not go back in time and stop the bullet.

The difference is that people are stupid and emotional. But then angels now devils, knew all the consequences of that choice before making it and than made it.

In Christianity, the basis of good and evil is tied to how one is aligned with God's character and intentions. There are definitely evil acts, aka sin, like those which intentionally violate God's love and design.

i've got the perfect uno reverse card for this. Suspension of disbelief and "Demons exist outside of humanity's narrow scope".

that is to say, in a fictional world, whatever the writer writes is truth to that world. if they want to write a repentant demon that tries to find salvation in the love of christ, then so be it. I've written a succubus story where the succubus is less a demonic threat and more a demonic prostitute being pimped out by higher level demons. she gets summoned and decides "nah, i'm done with that. Ima just stay here with you."

and personally, I'm a fan of stories that show less black-and-white shades. like allowing demons to not be inherently evil, but simply a race in and of themselves, capable of both good and bad. I've seen this explained a number of ways, such as ancient humans saw them and assumed they were evil because they were terrified.

'In Christianity' are the important words for this thread. What you are proposing would be outside the basis of Christianity.

If the author wants to write it that way they can go ahead, but expect a lot of confusion since it doesn't make sense within christian context.

 

[Hans.Trondheim]

I'm a Christian, was raised a Christian, and still practicing as a Christian. Here's my take on the idea: it's a work of fiction, and as long as the author won't downright disrepect my beliefs, I find it interesting.

Look, some of us are aware that in the Bible, the Christian God demands no other god should be worshipped except Him. And, honestly, as a writer, I struggled with the thought before.

My story, The Saint Series (The Human Daint is Bored), has the concept of multitudes of gods, with only the High King of the Gods reigning over others. The High King is my Christian influence, and the others is just me reading Greek mythology.

Why am I saying this? I got the idea from CS Lewis (Narnia) and Tolkien (LotR). Both are well-known Christian authors, but they knew it is fiction, and so they aren't afraid of using the "other deities" trope for a better storytelling.

So, for me, I'd say, go for it. But since there is a well-known religious person involved, an amount of respect is still necessary.

 

[John_Owl]

The reason this doesn't make sense is because demons are fallen for rebelling against God. Since Jesus IS God, then why would they have rebelled if they love Him?
Furthermore, if they loved Jesus then they would stop sinning and would no longer be a succubus.




In Christianity, the basis of good and evil is tied to how one is aligned with God's character and intentions. There are definitely evil acts, aka sin, like those which intentionally violate God's love and design.


'In Christianity' are the important words for this thread. What you are proposing would be outside the basis of Christianity.

If the author wants to write it that way they can go ahead, but expect a lot of confusion since it doesn't make sense within christian context.

ah, yeah. my bad. I missed that part.

Yeah, having a christian demon wouldn't make sense, as 1, in christianity, their demons are christian (That is to say, they follow the christian faith that christian demons are evil, ergo, they are evil). and 2, they are INHERENTLY evil, which would mean they have no choice in the matter. same as angels are inherently warriors and god is inherently good.

 

[T.K._Paradox]

@Suczka put this very well. Christian theology answers the concept of good and evil not as a duality.

But rather as pure existence (Good) and a lacking of that existence (Evil). Similar to Cold and Darkness both of which don't exist a concept by themselves, but they are rather a lack of Heat and Light respectively.

I am sure you don't mean any harm or foul play by what you wish to represent in your story, but those of us that do practice the faith you are using for inspiration would rather not have our faiths misrepresented.

But in the end you are the author and can make whatever decision you'd like with your story and fact you asked for feedback on how to possibly write this speaks volumes about your character and how you care for a potential audience.

 

[georgelee5786]

demons and their concepts aren't unique to Christianity. he wouldn't even have to bring up any religion when he could just say that the demons are a worldly species in and of themselves.

He all but said he was using demons as understood by Christianity since he brought Christ into it

 

[John_Owl]

He all but said he was using demons as understood by Christianity since he brought Christ into it

I've since corrected that I missed that part of the original post in my original comment. that said, one could also say that it was intended as a christ-analogy. not specifically christ, but an AU version of the religion where a christ-like-being existed. That would be my go to.

 

[BetterNickPending]

In Christianity, the basis of good and evil is tied to how one is aligned with God's character and intentions. There are definitely evil acts, aka sin, like those which intentionally violate God's love and design.

As the acts might be evil and labelled as Sins that does not mean that evil has a substance.
Those acts are evil because of lack of good in ones action or intention.

In Christianity human is incapable of consciously taking an action with the sole reason of rebelling against the God*.
No matter how evil that action would be.

In human mind human might be even aware that this action might be evil but he will find justification that this action brings to him some benefit.
Thief: if I steal this lady handbag I will have money to by food.
Scammer: if I scam this old lady of her savings I will be able to afford my mothers surgery (or buy a new car)
Murderer: if I kill my father he want rat me to the police and I will remain free
Hitler: if I kill Jews I will have money for public spending, if I kill Poles my nation will be able to expand
Grave defiler: If I spray paint pentagrams on those graves my friends in satanic cult will think I'm cool.
. . .
and so on

*that is why every human is capable of redemption.

Only then angels now devils had enough understanding and awareness to fully and consciously oppose God.

 

[TsumiHokiro]

You're going to make me post just to correct this duality for this word: dichotomy. I stand correct, Stop fantasizing over a single word. The first Christian who says they can live with your no need of doing good or no need of worrying of having sin as a Christian as your non-Christian behaviour will show up, for even this bird knows what the bible preaches.

 

[Woolen_Monkey]

I'd read... But then again I have fourth degree brain rot from all the MTLs I've read.

 

[Cipiteca396]

Can't tell if yall are finished arguing yet or not, so I'll just drop a quick warning.

The question was answered to the OP's satisfaction. There's no point in further argument about religion (which is specifically forbidden by the forum's rules). Things are fairly clear, so now we can chill and talk about other things (in different threads).

 

[Prince_Azmiran_Myrian]

Can't tell if yall are finished arguing yet or not, so I'll just drop a quick warning.

The question was answered to the OP's satisfaction. There's no point in further argument about religion (which is specifically forbidden by the forum's rules). Things are fairly clear, so now we can chill and talk about other things (in different threads).

I'm not going to argue with you, but I do wonder why you felt the need to (threaten?) those who were arguing/discussing here?

 

[Cipiteca396]

I'm not going to argue with you, but I do wonder why you felt the need to (threaten?) those who were arguing/discussing here?

Warning is not threat. It's literally just a warning.

 

[WinterTimeCrime]

Why not create your angelic and demon sects like in Hazbin Hotel? Create your own religion, similar to Christianity, but not precisely, possibly with your own 'God' figure.

Learning about the different religions and the succubi themselves will intrigue readers. The former premise isn't exciting, since everyone knows the concepts of Succubi and Christianity. Maybe you could put a spin on the Succubus itself. Like, perhaps she doesn't crave lust but is the first succubus to want general companionship, and travels to the human world to join an adventurer's party/find a lover/find the true meaning of love/ intrigued in a queen's pursuit of military conquest and agrees to help her.

I don't know, man, think of something cool. We're writers, dammit.