A discussion about why some of the best stories come from talented writers with a whim

[Representing_Tromba]

As the title suggests, I want to discuss why it may be that so many classic stories aren't planned or even intentional but are often gags or casual word vomits. Some examples include The Hobbit, Frieren, Avatar tlab, and others that I can't currently remember. The Hobbit started as a bedtime story for his children only writing it down because his children kept correcting details he often forgot, and C.C. Lewis convinced him to publish it. Frieren was a one-shot gag comic that wasn't supposed to be big because the creator was depressed after another flopped manga. Lastly, Avatar was only started because two weebs in the film industry decided to scribble a bald steampunk kid on a napkin after discussing fighting with the elements. People can write stories for years and never have success but some random idea eventually takes off for a few. What are the defining factors of these success stories that aren't luck-based? How talented at writing were they? Did they have a sudden backer or publisher? Were they newer to the industry or were they a seasoned veteran? These are all things I want us to consider. Personally, one defining factor of these stories is that they were written for the sake of the author and their desires, not the world.

 

[RepresentingWrath]

I can't think of any factors beside luck.

 

[Deleted member 84247]

Mostly years and years of hard work and patience. People only look in awe after the fact without noticing the struggle.

 

[YoungMasterDuck]

When you're planning a story, you're usually concentrated and usually already possess a certain "pre-stretch". As a result, you already have a rough outline of what you want to do, whereby potential good ideas either don't occur to you or you immediately dismiss them.

I think it generally has something to do with the state of your brain at that moment.

 

[RepresentingWrath]

Okay. I have one, let's pretend it does not rely on luck. They have a good team. Be it editor, publsiher, an author friend, a child, and so on. It is rarely(if ever) a work of one person. In one way or another, all those examples would've not been possible without the help of people who are equally eager and passionate.

 

[Daitengu]

Pure selfish desire. It's why I think Steven King's Cary is his best work. As he wrote it purely to prove he could be a non-ero writer.

 

[Deleted member 84247]

In my opinion, it is never luck. Working smart and challenging yourself means you can overcome any "luck" obstacle. The only thing that I would consider luck based is how hard you actually have to work. If your circumstances are unfortunate it means the obstacles get bigger, yes, but you can still do something.

I could blame luck for not being a super successful author right now, but instead of writing a book and learning through all of the resources provided by the internet, I am typing in a forum.

 

[RepresentingWrath]

In my opinion, it is never luck. Working smart and challenging yourself means you can overcome any "luck" obstacle. The only thing that I would consider luck based is how hard you actually have to work. If your circumstances are unfortunate it means the obstacles get bigger, yes, but you can still do something.

I could blame luck for not being a super successful author right now, but instead of writing a book and learning through all of the resources provided by the internet, I am typing in a forum.

Do you think authors that got popular are the only ones who work hard? Or that they work harder than others? Sorry if this sounds rude or agressive, but I guess this is a sensitive topic for me. Considering how much I like certain manga, and the person who drew it put all his health into it. Yet his work is less popualr than other works. Do I think he put more work or less? No. What I want to do is ask a question. What else he has to do to become as popular as them?

 

[owotrucked]

In my opinion, it is never luck.

it gotta be luck, don't force me to come to terms with skill issues

 

[Story_Marc]

Because calling it a "whim" is reductive. There is so much more work, particularly with the skillsets, that goes unseen and unappreciated. Envy nailed it in her comments, IMO.

Many who believe they can "just write" and hit it big don't understand this. Writing is easy to start, but it is demanding to do well. Becoming a true master as a storyteller is a marathon, not a sprint. This is why so many won't; at the end of the day, the costs of reaching such levels where you can pull stuff off consistently are high.

That's one of the reasons I do what I do.

To note, luck itself will factor in, but... well, that would require me to break down what I've come to learn about luck since there's more to it than just "this happened for them, end of story." Like putting oneself in the spot for stuff to happen, which requires doing said work a lot.

 

[Tyranomaster]

As the title suggests, I want to discuss why it may be that so many classic stories aren't planned or even intentional but are often gags or casual word vomits. Some examples include The Hobbit, Frieren, Avatar tlab, and others that I can't currently remember. The Hobbit started as a bedtime story for his children only writing it down because his children kept correcting details he often forgot, and C.C. Lewis convinced him to publish it. Frieren was a one-shot gag comic that wasn't supposed to be big because the creator was depressed after another flopped manga. Lastly, Avatar was only started because two weebs in the film industry decided to scribble a bald steampunk kid on a napkin after discussing fighting with the elements. People can write stories for years and never have success but some random idea eventually takes off for a few. What are the defining factors of these success stories that aren't luck-based? How talented at writing were they? Did they have a sudden backer or publisher? Were they newer to the industry or were they a seasoned veteran? These are all things I want us to consider. Personally, one defining factor of these stories is that they were written for the sake of the author and their desires, not the world.

I have 2 theories, and it's probably some degree of both. First and foremost, these people were already storytellers, and knew the fundamentals, without that, it's pointless.

First theory relates to a common line in all those situations, the author was interested and engaged in their story, rather than "Trying to write a story". Whether it was making a story for their kids, just having fun with an idea, or exploring the idea of a one-shot gag to get their own spirit up, in none of those situations was the goal to actually write a story to tell, it was to entertain an immediate audience.

The second theory is survivorship bias. Though there are examples that this works for, there are probably many, many more examples where it didn't happen, and that those stories fell flat on their face.

 

[Representing_Tromba]

it gotta be luck, don't force me to come to terms with skill issues

That's the thing, it's almost always never a skill issue that determines it. Luck may not be a factor but skill doesn't always matter with popularity.

 

[Deleted member 84247]

Do you think authors that got popular are the only ones who work hard? Or that they work harder than others? Sorry if this sounds rude or agressive, but I guess this is a sensitive topic for me. Considering how much I like certain manga, and the person who drew it put all his health into it. Yet his work is less popualr than other works. Do I think he put more work or less? No. What I want to do is ask a question. What else he has to do to become as popular as them?

I think this is a sensitive topic for me, too, so I will not.

 

[RepresentingWrath]

I think this is a sensitive topic for me, too, so I will not.

Sorry. Have a blood cookie to lift your mood.

 

[John_Owl]

three prong process, all require luck:
1, have the right story
2, in front of the right person
3, at the right time.

That is to say, all three need to line up, or your story won't be noticed.

 

[BearlyAlive]

Once you're at a certain level it's 1000% down to chance. I won't call it luck since that's something I don't have, so Imma label it as chance in case I get lucky.

 

[TroubleFait]

Some examples include The Hobbit, Frieren, Avatar TLAB...

Tolkien is very talented, the Avatar team did a monstrous job, and I don't know much about Frieren but having read some chapters I know the author isn't particularly bad...

Luck is a factor, sure, and whims and selfish passion can be what empowers an author to be great instead of good. But if there isn't a strong foundation to support the project I doubt it can be great.

Speaking about luck, a huge Hollywood production to film a Dune adaptation got cancelled in the 70's, meaning a bunch of the greatest artists of the time found themselves with no plan. Thankfully, George Lucas had a movie idea just at the right time...

I think Lucas is an excellent filmmaker but without this stroke of luck I wonder what he would have done...

 

[TheEldritchGod]

Helldiver metal song.
same guy.
Fall of the creek.

The first one is better. Why? Because he made it for pure fun.

The second one is okay, but feels forced.

That's the difference. People can tell when you aren't enjoying your art. Its half the reason I'm deadlocked on a story.

 

[melchi]

Don't forget Mary Shelly

 

[Prince_Azmiran_Myrian]

As the title suggests, I want to discuss why it may be that so many classic stories aren't planned or even intentional but are often gags or casual word vomits. Some examples include The Hobbit, Frieren, Avatar tlab, and others that I can't currently remember. The Hobbit started as a bedtime story for his children only writing it down because his children kept correcting details he often forgot, and C.C. Lewis convinced him to publish it. Frieren was a one-shot gag comic that wasn't supposed to be big because the creator was depressed after another flopped manga. Lastly, Avatar was only started because two weebs in the film industry decided to scribble a bald steampunk kid on a napkin after discussing fighting with the elements. People can write stories for years and never have success but some random idea eventually takes off for a few. What are the defining factors of these success stories that aren't luck-based? How talented at writing were they? Did they have a sudden backer or publisher? Were they newer to the industry or were they a seasoned veteran? These are all things I want us to consider. Personally, one defining factor of these stories is that they were written for the sake of the author and their desires, not the world.