Word Density, am I writing too many words?

[Freesia.Cutepearl]

As I've continued to add to my story and follow it's statistics, as well as take note of other stories, some I liked, some popular, some using the same tags as me, one thing has become very apparent to me. I seem to write a large amount more than most every story I have looked at. And I'm not sure how to feel about this. Am I writing too much, progressing too slow, and so on? Does it even matter?

My first chapter doesn't count, it's only a Foreword.

In the Prologue and 12 chapters, I have written around 50k words, a bit less because I think it counts the author's notes.
Taken at face value that's a density of approximately 3.8k per 1 chapter

Comparing some stories that I have read and really like:

The story had a really nice flow and pacing, and Kotohood wrote nearly 200k words in ~86 chapters, give or take.
I have written about 1/4th of the words, in about 1/8th of the chapters, and am only around a week into the story timeline-wise.
The density here is around 2.2k per chapter.
My progression speed seems atrociously slow by comparison.

Forli wrote about 100k words in ~59 chapters, and again the progression speed of this story was much faster than my own and it felt enjoyable to read, to me.
I've written about 1/2 the words in about 1/6th of the chapters.
Density is around 1.7k a chapter here.

This is the first story I've seen that matches my density, around 4k per chapter.
Ninetailed wrote ~600k words in nearly ~150 chapters; leaving me at 1/12th the words in close to 1/15th the chapters.
Somehow the ratio still 'feels' low, even if the density claims otherwise.
I recall feeling very immersed as I binged through this story, long before I ever considered writing a single word of my own.
Even so I 'feel' as though my story progression is abysmally slow in comparison to this one.

The overall trend continues as I compare stories around within one of the same tags, "Divine Protection"

#8 is 1.1k density, around 1/5th of my words with around the same dozen chapters.
#9 is 1.3k density, around 4/5th my words in close to 3 times the chapters.
#11 is 1.1k density, around 1/2 the words in around double the chapters.
#12 is closer, nearing 2.6k density, with close to 2/5th the words in a little more than 1/2 the chapters.

I look at story after story and see similar ratios, even if the density per chapter isn't too far off the ratios make it 'feel' skewed.

It's just really bugging me, despite the fact readers seem to not care at all, perhaps it's because most of my life I've struggled with brevity and been told time and again that I talk too much, make things too complicated, can't keep things simple, and so on. It's creating this sense of fear and foreboding that I can't seem to shake.

I'd like to think that none of this should matter, I'm having fun and enjoying writing my story, and lots of people seem to be enjoying it, and that fills me with joy. But this nagging feeling is eating away at my sanity and undermining my feelings of happiness now, and I just feel like I need a sanity check, if you will?

Perhaps it's not good to look at other stories and compare such values, but the mind is a fickle thing and when I want to read myself I can't help but notice and compare involuntarily.

If you have read this far, I really appreciate it, please have a wonderful day, and if something is bothering you, perhaps getting it off your chest will help, I'm happy to offer encouragement where I can. I've already berated a newly made friend on this forum for daring to consider deleting his story which he is so passionate over.

Whatever your struggles, I hope they work out well for you, and I appreciate you taking the time to entertain me as I wrestle with mine.

 

[Assurbanipal_II]

As I've continued to add to my story and follow it's statistics, as well as take note of other stories, some I liked, some popular, some using the same tags as me, one thing has become very apparent to me. I seem to write a large amount more than most every story I have looked at. And I'm not sure how to feel about this. Am I writing too much, progressing too slow, and so on? Does it even matter?

My first chapter doesn't count, it's only a Foreword.

In the Prologue and 12 chapters, I have written around 50k words, a bit less because I think it counts the author's notes.
Taken at face value that's a density of approximately 3.8k per 1 chapter

Comparing some stories that I have read and really like:

The story had a really nice flow and pacing, and Kotohood wrote nearly 200k words in ~86 chapters, give or take.
I have written about 1/4th of the words, in about 1/8th of the chapters, and am only around a week into the story timeline-wise.
The density here is around 2.2k per chapter.
My progression speed seems atrociously slow by comparison.

Forli wrote about 100k words in ~59 chapters, and again the progression speed of this story was much faster than my own and it felt enjoyable to read, to me.
I've written about 1/2 the words in about 1/6th of the chapters.
Density is around 1.7k a chapter here.

This is the first story I've seen that matches my density, around 4k per chapter.
Ninetailed wrote ~600k words in nearly ~150 chapters; leaving me at 1/12th the words in close to 1/15th the chapters.
Somehow the ratio still 'feels' low, even if the density claims otherwise.
I recall feeling very immersed as I binged through this story, long before I ever considered writing a single word of my own.
Even so I 'feel' as though my story progression is abysmally slow in comparison to this one.

The overall trend continues as I compare stories around within one of the same tags, "Divine Protection"

#8 is 1.1k density, around 1/5th of my words with around the same dozen chapters.
#9 is 1.3k density, around 4/5th my words in close to 3 times the chapters.
#11 is 1.1k density, around 1/2 the words in around double the chapters.
#12 is closer, nearing 2.6k density, with close to 2/5th the words in a little more than 1/2 the chapters.

I look at story after story and see similar ratios, even if the density per chapter isn't too far off the ratios make it 'feel' skewed.

It's just really bugging me, despite the fact readers seem to not care at all, perhaps it's because most of my life I've struggled with brevity and been told time and again that I talk too much, make things too complicated, can't keep things simple, and so on. It's creating this sense of fear and foreboding that I can't seem to shake.

I'd like to think that none of this should matter, I'm having fun and enjoying writing my story, and lots of people seem to be enjoying it, and that fills me with joy. But this nagging feeling is eating away at my sanity and undermining my feelings of happiness now, and I just feel like I need a sanity check, if you will?

Perhaps it's not good to look at other stories and compare such values, but the mind is a fickle thing and when I want to read myself I can't help but notice and compare involuntarily.

If you have read this far, I really appreciate it, please have a wonderful day, and if something is bothering you, perhaps getting it off your chest will help, I'm happy to offer encouragement where I can. I've already berated a newly made friend on this forum for daring to consider deleting his story which he is so passionate over.

Whatever your struggles, I hope they work out well for you, and I appreciate you taking the time to entertain me as I wrestle with mine.
View attachment 4830

My density must be pretty low too.

 

[GDLiZy]

Word count isn't the indication of pace nor is word per chapter. If you feel that it's slow, it's slow.

 

[Freesia.Cutepearl]

Word count isn't the indication of pace nor is word per chapter. If you feel that it's slow, it's slow.

It feels slow in comparison, but yet, somehow, at the moment, while writing or rereading, it's not?
I don't know how to describe it. It feels like, the difference between barreling down the interstate, or taking a leisurely sightseeing drive, neither is slow for their context, and both get you to where you are going, but compared against one another, the leisurely drive is going to take longer to get you somewhere.

Ugh this is so hard to quantify and describe!

 

[yansusustories]

I understand the worry but I think it's not needed. Personally, I have stories ranging from about 1k words/chapter to 5k words/chapter. The difference isn't necessarily in the pace of the story just like @GDLiZy just said. The longer ones are often more descriptive than the shorter ones (e.g., new places or characters are described in greater detail) which racks up words but doesn't really progress what is happening in a story (but might be more enjoyable because it's more immersive).
In fact, shorter chapters can make the pace feel slower because a reader might read 50 chapters, look back, and think 'WTF? 50 chapters in and only this much happened?' (actual feedback I've gotten once for a 1k-words/chapter story) while if you have 10 5k chapters, it feels in hindsight like things progress a lot faster because there were fewer chapters even though the same amount of plot points might have happened.
Also, keep in mind that having a slow pace might not be bad. Some people love reading slower paced stories. And sometimes a slow pace might even be preferable for a certain type of story. Like, while an action-packed adventure might profit from a faster pace, a tragedy could totally benefit from a slower pace overall. And sometimes the beauty of a story is even in the author's ability to switch between slower paced periods and the occasional fast-paced bits.

 

[Ruriha]

yeah, you can't write too many words. It should depend on your pacing, or unless you're putting too much filler phrases, then it is indeed a problem.

 

[Freesia.Cutepearl]

I understand the worry but I think it's not needed. Personally, I have stories ranging from about 1k words/chapter to 5k words/chapter. The difference isn't necessarily in the pace of the story... The longer ones are often more descriptive than the shorter ones (e.g., new places or characters are described in greater detail) which racks up words but doesn't really progress what is happening in a story (but might be more enjoyable because it's more immersive).

Thank you. I think I tend to be very descriptive, I try to avoid describing things that don't feel as relevant, but at the same time I struggle at times with the difference between being descriptive, and just being too verbose? I think? At least, I've been told that.

For some context, here is a scene from one of my recent chapters where I describe a room. For in story context, she is spying on it using a "remote control spider" a technique she came up with, abusing her shapeshifting to make her finger a spider, connected via spider silk thread to her body.

Spoiler: Story Excerpt

I follow the man in the dark long coat down the hall, looking back I see the other man, with the dirty tan cloak, is waiting by the door of iron bars, still holding onto the woman in green, she doesn’t seem to be struggling anymore. I turn back around and catch back up to the long coat man, the hallway we’re walking down has empty cells with iron barred doors along it, most seem to be used as storage, as well as a few rooms with solid wooden doors as we near the end of the hallway.

A dull light made of a mixture of various colors spills into the hallway as we reach the end and it opens into a large room with a high ceiling. The walls and ceiling look to be made of old worn stone, but the floor is covered in a soft looking maroon colored carpet, along with maroon colored curtains with gold trim lining the bottom half of the stone walls.

Magic lamps of various colors hang from the ceiling in even spacing, seemingly rotating, creating dark and light spots as shadows dance across the room. A small stage made of a dark, rich colored polished wood sits directly across from the hallway’s entrance. Upon it 5 people seem to be playing various instruments, seemingly with some magic as I can see various lights erupt from parts of their instruments as they play.

A woman is up front, as if she is singing into a microphone, but the sounds emanating from it remind me more of those people who can do things like beatbox with their mouth, only, distorted and changed in some way, as she plays with what look like buttons that line the upper third of the stand of her ‘microphone’ with accompanying small flashes of light.

Near the stage is a large round table, with a maroon cloth with golden patterns, and several people in very fancy looking clothes, what looks to be some bottles, an elevated tray that resembles a snack tray, except it is filled with indents that contain what look like long thin cigars, as long as a sparkler one might see during new years on earth.

The scent of a sweet and intoxicating smoke fills the air, as a visible cloud of it lingers just above the reach of the curtains lining the wall. The man in the longcoat passes by the other variously sized tables with different colors of cloth, making his way towards the large maroon and gold one near the stage.

I can’t easily follow him as the ceiling is so much taller, I fall behind as I climb quickly up the wall, the scent of the smoke strengthening significantly as I reach the ceiling and am enveloped in the cloud. It smells sweet, reminiscent of vanilla and cinnamon, and feels intoxicating and relaxing. I try to ignore the feeling and rush as quickly as I can toward the table.

As I enter the area above the table, I do my best to secure a good chunk of thread as an anchor, and slowly slide down through the air, to get near enough to easily use my telepathy. I try to focus on listening to the longcoat man and the one he appears to be addressing, a man dressed in fancy looking, but loose fitting clothes resembling something from the 1700s, colored maroon and black with golden trim and designs.

He is also wearing a hat that looks like a cross between a top hat and a baseball hat, the body of the hat resembles a top hat, but the brim is wide and flat in the front almost like a trapezoid, widest at the front and thinning significantly as it reaches the sides, and disappearing completely at the back. It is black with golden trim along the edge of the brim, finished off with a small maroon colored band near the bottom of the tophat part.

In fact, shorter chapters can make the pace feel slower because a reader might read 50 chapters, look back, and think 'WTF? 50 chapters in and only this much happened?' (actual feedback I've gotten once for a 1k-words/chapter story) while if you have 10 5k chapters, it feels in hindsight like things progress a lot faster because there were fewer chapters even though the same amount of plot points might have happened.

That makes sense, really. Not that you've put into that context. I can recall a story I like, that I started reading recently, that went at a breakneck pace and barely described anything, while it felt like a decent amount happened progression wise, it felt like a short rollercoaster ride, it was exciting and we went fast, but I didn't have time to take I the scenery and the world felt like a blur as it flew by.

Also, keep in mind that having a slow pace might not be bad. Some people love reading slower paced stories. And sometimes a slow pace might even be preferable for a certain type of story. Like, while an action-packed adventure might profit from a faster pace, a tragedy could totally benefit from a slower pace overall. And sometimes the beauty of a story is even in the author's ability to switch between slower paced periods and the occasional fast-paced bits.

It's my very first attempt at writing a story like this, so I hope that I can manage to learn to accomplish that well. I had intended for things to have a bit of a slower pace at the start, my main character can't speak the language yet either(she has a workaround), it's a bit of a challenge, but it also means introducing things about the world is more of a drip-feed than a giant exposition. I just worry, possibly-- probably, pointlessly, that it's not fast enough for people, or some weird standard my mind is setting, based on comparing as I have been.

Thank you all for your comments and feedback. <3

 

[Cossimeri]

I don't think writing too many words per chapter is a bad thing. Ultimately your word density just acts as an extra trait to set you apart from other stories on the site. It also means you probably get people engaging with your story on every release. I know I read a few stories that only have 800 words or so per chapter and I honestly just wait for a few chapters to have released before I go in and binge them.

 

[BenJepheneT]

Not to repeat what's been said above, word density does work in getting you readers. Reality of the matter is that time is a valuable resource and in all honesty, people are willing to forgo pacing/quality/character if that means they could get a quick thrill for a cheap price. If readers and engagement are what you're looking for, best for for 2k - 2.5k words per chapter.

Don't be like me. I'm not chasing for numbers but, hypothetically speaking, if I am, I'm the worst guy to get advice from.

But if quality is what you're stretching for, word density varies between genres. Is your story character centric or plot centric? Are your scenes quick and easy to understand or filled with complex emotions and motives? Is your word count per chapter enough to convey the scene you want to tell or does it kill the already chugging pacing? It's a good idea to have your action be chopped into light sized easy bites but a bad idea to have your emotional character interaction be hacked and severed into cliffhanging pieces.

Point is, word density holds its importance in many different aspects depending on what you're striving for in your work. Just know what you're trying to focus on.

 

[IvyVeritas]

The number of words per chapter doesn't really have anything to do with "writing more" than other people, or "writing too much". To determine whether you're writing more than other people, you'd have to compare two finished stories. To determine if you're writing too much, well, that's between you and your readers. You need enough words to tell the story, but you should also make sure that each scene and each sentence is contributing to the story in some way.

For example, in The Eighth Warden, I've got over 300k words right now, and the story will end somewhere between 600k and 750k words. There are web serials that continue on for more millions of words, but I don't need millions of words to tell the story. I knew the end point before I started. I would say, if you write an unnecessary chapter just so you have something to release, then you're writing too much. If you continue writing after the story has ended, or after you've run out of any ideas for how to continue it, then you're writing too much.

In a standard novel, average chapter sizes often range from 3k to 5k words, but can be much shorter or much longer. A chapter should be however long it needs to be.

In a web serial, it's a little more awkward because 1) you typically release one chapter at a time, and you'll want to maintain some sort of consistency about how much you release at a time, and 2) it will be heavily impacted by how frequently you release a chapter. If you release 5000 words a week, is that a single average-sized chapter or five short chapters? Some people suggest 1000 words at a time to help support readers on mobile devices, while other people throw a hissy fit if you release any less than 10k (not so much here on SH, but I've encountered it elsewhere).

 

[Freesia.Cutepearl]

@BenJepheneT My good sir, I cede the crown to you, here, take it

Not to repeat what's been said above, word density does work in getting you readers. Reality of the matter is that time is a valuable resource and in all honesty, people are willing to forgo pacing/quality/character if that means they could get a quick thrill for a cheap price. If readers and engagement are what you're looking for, best for for 2k - 2.5k words per chapter.

Don't be like me. I'm not chasing for numbers but, hypothetically speaking, if I am, I'm the worst guy to get advice from.

Honestly, I'm happy beyond belief to just have the readers I have, I'm floored and astonished. I'm just enjoying writing, and feel happy others seem to be enjoying it too. I never intended to care about metrics or anything. Alas, my brain is being mean to me. Doesn't help that Trending-Tab-chan has been trying to inflate my ego.

But if quality is what you're stretching for, word density varies between genres. Is your story character centric or plot centric? Are your scenes quick and easy to understand or filled with complex emotions and motives? Is your word count per chapter enough to convey the scene you want to tell or does it kill the already chugging pacing? It's a good idea to have your action be chopped into light sized easy bites but a bad idea to have your emotional character interaction be hacked and severed into cliffhanging pieces.

Point is, word density holds its importance in many different aspects depending on what you're striving for in your work. Just know what you're trying to focus on.

Definitely character writing right now, I imagine it is going to be my greatest weakness. I feel like my understanding of people and emotion is a bit skewed due to my life experience and inherent factors such as being born with some mental... differences. Let's just say my brain is not Neurotypical. Sometimes I overreact emotionally, others I feel devoid, most times my reactions are not normal.

I'm heavily focusing on character writing while slowly working out the world, for myself and the story and adding to the plot as I go along, I usually just think about the 'settings' for the scene, the initial conditions if you will, and let things play out as the may, adjusting conditions to try to steer them towards where I planned the plot, but ultimately they do what they want, and I just write until I feel like I have a nice stopping point, be it 2.2k words to 6k words.

In the future, I intend to switch between characters in the world to expand it and provide other viewpoints, both of the main character and of plot events. As well as exploring different types of story tropes, such as some slice of life, magic school setting, and creative endeavors such as a "Quest for Coffee."

 

[yansusustories]

For some context, here is a scene from one of my recent chapters where I describe a room.

I think this is actually really good. I can't say anything about how it fits into the story overall but from what you've said, it sounds like this scene is important to the overall plot. And the description shows that IMO. It's very ... atmospherical I'd say. Like, the way you describe the characters and the place where they are adds to the tension. I actually think that if it was shorter, it might be lacking something.

I can recall a story I like, that I started reading recently, that went at a breakneck pace and barely described anything, while it felt like a decent amount happened progression wise, it felt like a short rollercoaster ride, it was exciting and we went fast, but I didn't have time to take I the scenery and the world felt like a blur as it flew by.

Yep, that's exactly the type of thing I was thinking of. This can be really great but if a whole story is this way, then it can also be taxing to read. At least every now and then, readers might also want to take a breather.

Also, in regards to these two thoughts:

But if quality is what you're stretching for, word density varies between genres. Is your story character centric or plot centric? Are your scenes quick and easy to understand or filled with complex emotions and motives? Is your word count per chapter enough to convey the scene you want to tell or does it kill the already chugging pacing? It's a good idea to have your action be chopped into light sized easy bites but a bad idea to have your emotional character interaction be hacked and severed into cliffhanging pieces.

In a standard novel, average chapter sizes often range from 3k to 5k words, but can be much shorter or much longer. A chapter should be however long it needs to be.

I think the former are very important questions to ask yourself when writing. As for the latter, that's something I'd agree to as well.
I think what's interesting and ties a bit into both of these is that in standard novels (and also often in web serials with longer chapters - at least the ones I've seen) you often have a chapter consist of several parts. Like, a 3k word chapter that has 2 or 3 parts which are separated by a line. I personally always refer to that as one scene but I'm not sure if that's what it's really called.
I often think this when I write my stories with chapters at only 1k words per chapter. Basically, if I used several of them as scenes in one chapter, I'd get to about 5k probably, maybe even more. Personally, I decided to have it be several chapters instead because the punchlines (I often write comedy and 1k is enough to set up a joke) and smaller cliffhangers often work better this way but I could just as well merge them into one chapter if I wanted to because several chapters make up small "mini arcs" that all come together in several bigger arcs.
So I think that there are actually different ways to go about things and which one is the best will depend on both your story and what you're comfortable with. Sometimes, your writing style might just lean one way automatically.

 

[Freesia.Cutepearl]

The number of words per chapter doesn't really have anything to do with "writing more" than other people, or "writing too much". To determine whether you're writing more than other people, you'd have to compare two finished stories.

Great point, thank you, comparing finished works makes more sense, it's really difficult to avoid doing it mindlessly though, hopefully, after all this, I can learn to ignore it and make better comparisons that really matter. Thank you.

For example, in The Eighth Warden, I've got over 300k words right now, and the story will end somewhere between 600k and 750k words. There are web serials that continue on for more millions of words, but I don't need millions of words to tell the story. I knew the end point before I started. I would say, if you write an unnecessary chapter just so you have something to release, then you're writing too much. If you continue writing after the story has ended, or after you've run out of any ideas for how to continue it, then you're writing too much.

Yay, more sanity checks, thank you again. I hope to never write something 'just to release it', thus far everything I have written is because it is part of the story, if anything I had so much in my head I want to get out but I have mental and physical bottlenecks that slow things down, otherwise I'd probably have written twice as much already >.>

I started out with no real overall plan, just to write to practice, but as things have progressed, I have been building up the world with lore and plot ideas and threads have come into existence, such that I have some basic ideas for "years" of in-story events and possible plotlines. I have around a dozen pages in my notes now, mostly of lore.

If anything I just have this pervasive feeling it's too much and too overwhelming based on an entire life experience of people telling me things like that. I really do appreciate the comments and advice. It's a really wonderful sanity check. I am beginning to feel less apprehensive about it now.

In a web serial, it's a little more awkward because 1) you typically release one chapter at a time, and you'll want to maintain some sort of consistency about how much you release at a time, and 2) it will be heavily impacted by how frequently you release a chapter. If you release 5000 words a week, is that a single average-sized chapter or five short chapters? Some people suggest 1000 words at a time to help support readers on mobile devices, while other people throw a hissy fit if you release any less than 10k (not so much here on SH, but I've encountered it elsewhere).

That is a huge failing for me right now, I have no schedule, and no backlog, I find it very difficult to hang onto chapters after they are written, the excitement to share what happens next is overwhelming, as for the most part, I do not know until I have written it, what will happen. It feels akin to finding a really cool show and wanting to share it with a friend, except it's my story's newest chapter and I'm sharing it with my readers. (I still can't believe so many people are reading my dumb little story!)

[That brings up another personal failing of mine, discounting everything I do as terrible, stupid, or fundamentally flawed in some way, yay mental deficiencies!]

Seriously, thank you, everyone.

 

[Freesia.Cutepearl]

I think this is actually really good. I can't say anything about how it fits into the story overall but from what you've said, it sounds like this scene is important to the overall plot. And the description shows that IMO. It's very ... atmospherical I'd say. Like, the way you describe the characters and the place where they are adds to the tension. I actually think that if it was shorter, it might be lacking something.

Thank you so much! @yansusustories I really appreciate the feedback!

That's only like, half? I think? Of the describing, I did in that chapter.
There was some of the rooms and place leading up to that scene.

Spoiler: Story Excerpt: Previous Area

Following them down the dimly lit hallway, as I run along the ceiling, leaving my trail of silk attached to it behind me, they approach a set of double doors that has a locking mechanism somewhat similar to the cell I was trapped in a couple days ago, except this one has 11 switches as a combination.

I see one of the men moving toward it and rush to position myself nearby and try to see the combination. Thankfully, for me, the woman is struggling enough that both of them still have to hold her, slowing down the progress of entering the combination. I watch as he flips the switches one by one, 1st, 3rd, 6th, 7th, 9th, and 11th. A low, deep series of clunks accompany the unlocking of the door, followed by a soft rumble as some mechanism unseen in the walls moves along with the slowly opening door.

Behind the door is a staircase leading down to somewhere I can’t see, but the faint glow of magic lamps can be seen softly illuminating the bottom of the staircase. As the two men push the woman ahead of them and into the staircase, I leap onto the top of the door frame, making sure to shoot more spider silk thread toward the ceiling and wall to secure it firmly, hopefully, before bolting down the staircase along the roof following closely behind them.

The rumbling of the door mechanism can be heard again as the large door slowly begins to shut. I recite the combination to help myself remember, “1st, 3rd, 6th, 7th, 9th, 11th. 1st, 3rd, 6th, 7th, 9th, 11th. 1st, 3rd, 6th, 7th, 9th, 11th.” I stop as we reach the bottom, I can see a short hallway with two doors on each side, that splits into a T shape at the end. Directly at the end of the hallway, at the ‘top’ of the T shape, is a double wide door of iron bars.

Then, I went on to describe the people at the table after she looks around at them.
I didn't spend as much time on them as the first man, as they are more background characters, but they're right there so it felt more relevant to the scene.

Spoiler: Story Excerpt: People at the table

As I hang there in the air, I look over the people on the table, there is a pretty woman in a white dress with a red sash, pale blonde almost white hair, with a wide brimmed hat with red trim that could be out of the 50s. She has elbow length white gloves and is sitting sideways in her seat casually puffing on one of the long thin cigar-like things. She’s facing a man in a dark blue suit with white accents that looks as if it could be straight out of the Victorian era.

Two more men wearing pinstripe suits reminiscent of something from a mobster movie, one black and white, another maroon and gold, sit across the table from the other three. The woman isn’t talking, but the other three men seem to be discussing some kind of auction planned for later that night. The one called Goodmond by the longcoat man is simply sitting there with a smug grin plastered across his face as if he’d won some game or bet.

I take a moment to look around the place, it appears most tables have 3 to 5 people, and there seem to be about a dozen tables, give or take, scattered across the room. Most people seem to be relaxed, chatting, and smoking those long thin cigar-like things. There are roughly equal amounts of men and women, as far as I can see.

Honestly, I feel happy with how much life I feel like my descriptions can give, but I also worry about overdoing it.

 

[UYScuti]

I have written about 1/4th of the words, in about 1/8th of the chapters, and am only around a week into the story timeline-wise.

The main thing I would worry about here is that you’ve gone 1 week in 14 chapters. I’d be concerned with having to do massive time skips in the future or throwing your pacing out of whack. If you continued with that pacing, you’d be 200,000 words in and only moved a month.

Unless you’re planning on writing millions of words for 1 year’s time in the story, you might find yourself in a situation where you’re skipping months at a time between chapters. Once you start skipping huge time periods, you’ll need to explain things as, “it happened offscreen during the 3 months I skipped”

 

[OvidLemma]

I'll reiterate what others have said and add a bit on top of that: the density of your story has more to do with pacing than it has to do with chapter length. If you're worried about chapter length, though, here's my advice: cut your chapters in half and then post them separately. My rule of thumb for SH chapters is that chapters under 2k words get merged and chapters over 5k words get chopped in half - that is, assuming there's a half-decent point to split the chapter.

If you're worried about your prose being too dense - not a measure of chapter length, mind you - I think a good rule-of-thumb metric is paragraph length (assuming you split paragraphs appropriately). Yours look to be intermediate-length, and I wouldn't deviate too much from that style if it's natural to you. However, if you want to make the writing punchier, make sure you add emotional reactions from the narrator, action verbs, and creative language into the prose.

For my part, my prose is much denser than the average SH novel. I write in the form of a more traditional novel, and my paragraphs tend to be 3-5 sentences long with fairly complex sentence structure. This is quite different from the typical light novel, which has shorter paragraphs and simpler sentence structure. Depending on your target audience, one, both, or neither approach will work well. And, obviously, the better you are as a storyteller the more leeway you have to ignore writing conventions. An example of my "dense" story-writing is below:

Spoiler: Dense Storytelling

Having a near-eidetic memory wasn't the same thing as having a perfect understanding. Ezra knew this well from his experiences as a budding (but so far pretty successful) information broker. He could look at just about any schematic or page of text and have the whole thing memorized if you gave him thirty seconds to scan it. A minute if the schematic had a lot of fine detail. His hand-eye coordination was nearly perfect, too - something that you didn't really appreciate until you could draw a perfect freehand circle by eye. It was important to stand right over the paper, though, or else you'd get a little perspective error added in.

Ezra had burned all of Fenrik's plans but had given half of them to both Teak and Plenakton, whom he considered to be criminals of principle, even if those principles occasionally validated doing horrible things to people with sufficient cause. The other half he held in his memory bank, both to keep the crime lords interested in his continued well-being and to get them to follow through on their promises to help rescue Rill.

He was used to waking up alone again, and he hated that fact. He would wake up in his little room in Plenakton's secret stronghold deep in the Old City tenements… it was a nice room, with well-tended plaster walls and a little grimed-over skylight. He'd wake up warm and content, the room's little alchemical radiator still pumping out just enough heat to ward off the outside cold without overheating the room, and stretch and smile for all of about three seconds before the crushing realization pounded misery right back into him. Rill was still captured, and every promise to help him get her back had turned out to be a whole lot of perfumed air with a follow-through that stank like Chartham. She'd been taken from him and imprisoned and re-enslaved, her body a mere commodity for research and possibly energy. And what had Plenakton and Teak done? Ask when they were going to get the other half of the plans, of course. That was all they cared about.

"How close is it?" he said.

Anise glanced up at him with tired eyes. She'd pulled another all-nighter, or close enough. She and Franyi had brought little cots into the long-unused basement workshop at St. Quillia's. This was their current base of operations, because it was the closest underground facility they had access to - one hundred fifty meters as the kao-etema burrows from the facility where Rill and the other captured infernics were being kept. One hundred thirty meters over and seventy meters down, any entrance or exit closely guarded. Though, Ezra was guessing, they didn't expect anybody to burrow through a sixth of a kilometer of solid bedrock.

"We're almost done," Anise said. She stood and cracked her neck, her shoulders hunching up.

As you can see from the snippet above, my paragraphs tend to be pretty long. One approach that I employ to make them less monotonous is to add snippets of dialogue between blocks of paragraph text. If I'm in a spot where there isn't much dialog, then I'll add a very short one-sentence paragraph to break up the wall of text. I want my readers to never feel like they're trudging through my story to get to the interesting bits so, even though my writing is quite dense, I try to add lots of interesting detail into the writing and, from what my readers report, I'm usually more successful than not.

 

[yansusustories]

[That brings up another personal failing of mine, discounting everything I do as terrible, stupid, or fundamentally flawed in some way, yay mental deficiencies!]

Let me tell you a secret: I've written 20+ novels by now and with each and every single one of them I've had phases where I thought I was a bad writer and couldn't do shit and everyone would hate it. By now, I have these doubts slightly less often but they're still there and I don't think I'd ever get rid of them completely. I think it's a very normal reaction to have because what we imagine is often just way better than what we are currently able to do. One would need an insane amount of self-esteem to be able to never doubt oneself for creative things like this I'm afraid

The main thing I would worry about here is that you’ve gone 1 week in 14 chapters. I’d be concerned with having to do massive time skips in the future or throwing your pacing out of whack. If you continued with that pacing, you’d be 200,000 words in and only moved a month.

Unless you’re planning on writing millions of words for 1 year’s time in the story, you might find yourself in a situation where you’re skipping months at a time between chapters. Once you start skipping huge time periods, you’ll need to explain things as, “it happened offscreen during the 3 months I skipped”

Good question, although I'd say it depends on how much time is supposed to pass in the story itself and how the major plot points are spaced out (which might both be related).
Personally, I've had a story (300k+) that only spanned two weeks in-novel and I have another story (which, in fact, is past the 1 million word mark, I'll admit to it) where I've leisurely skipped 3 or even 5 years at one point because the small stuff happening in there can just be paraphrased later. Not everything is equally important after all. I think it's alright as long as the major plotpoints aren't skipped.

 

[Freesia.Cutepearl]

The main thing I would worry about here is that you’ve gone 1 week in 14 chapters. I’d be concerned with having to do massive time skips in the future or throwing your pacing out of whack. If you continued with that pacing, you’d be 200,000 words in and only moved a month.

Unless you’re planning on writing millions of words for 1 year’s time in the story, you might find yourself in a situation where you’re skipping months at a time between chapters. Once you start skipping huge time periods, you’ll need to explain things as, “it happened offscreen during the 3 months I skipped”

That is a HUGE concern for me, I don't really want to do time skips, I had the idea that I would try shifting the pacing, to be less dense during bits where more time needed to pass, for example, when traveling, there is little to talk about plot-wise, so aside from fluff or rest moments I could probably not cover it very well once the scenery of the region was established, I think? I hope?

This is my first story so I had hoped to experiment with like, pretty much, literally everything, at some point, action scenes, horror stuff, slice of life fluff, being a merchant making a business, visiting a magic school, fighting monsters, helping people find a new home or rebuild, wars, helping a region improve itself, and so on. I expect years of in-story time to pass before the ultimate overarching plot thread comes to a climax, there is no rush for the main character to reach the ultimate end, rather, rushing would likely lead to failure. She has time to enjoy her new life, learn about the world, and grow stronger to deal with what lies ahead.

I'll reiterate what others have said and add a bit on top of that: the density of your story has more to do with pacing than it has to do with chapter length. If you're worried about chapter length, though, here's my advice: cut your chapters in half and then post them separately. My rule of thumb for SH chapters is that chapters under 2k words get merged and chapters over 5k words get chopped in half - that is, assuming there's a half-decent point to split the chapter.

A chapter less than 2k words... ah... haha.. uh...

Seriously though, I seem to be averaging between 3k and 5k, and I just write until I feel like I have a decent stopping point. In some of the earlier chapters, I added small scenes from elsewhere when I felt the one I written was too short. The scenes I added were important and needed to be mentioned anyway. I know I struggled a bit at the beginning with fitting things together, and I left too much out of one because of this fear of mine, only to later have to go back and explain it clearly by having a character look over their notes.

In short, I just write until the scene ends or I have a nice transition, whatever feels natural, length be damned.

If you're worried about your prose being too dense - not a measure of chapter length, mind you - I think a good rule-of-thumb metric is paragraph length (assuming you split paragraphs appropriately). Yours look to be intermediate-length, and I wouldn't deviate too much from that style if it's natural to you. However, if you want to make the writing punchier, make sure you add emotional reactions from the narrator, action verbs, and creative language into the prose.

I feel like this is probably very on point, and I do like the idea of sprinkling in more reactions and verbs, along with creative language. I'll have to practice at it, but I like the idea a lot. I imagine it will take a while to become effective at it, for me, at least. Spending more effort on things like that makes it harder to put the things in my mind onto paper, for a while, at least.

For my part, my prose is much denser than the average SH novel. I write in the form of a more traditional novel, and my paragraphs tend to be 3-5 sentences long with fairly complex sentence structure. This is quite different from the typical light novel, which has shorter paragraphs and simpler sentence structure. Depending on your target audience, one, both, or neither approach will work well. And, obviously, the better you are as a storyteller the more leeway you have to ignore writing conventions. An example of my "dense" story-writing is below:

As you can see from the snippet above, my paragraphs tend to be pretty long. One approach that I employ to make them less monotonous is to add snippets of dialogue between blocks of paragraph text. If I'm in a spot where there isn't much dialog, then I'll add a very short one-sentence paragraph to break up the wall of text. I want my readers to never feel like they're trudging through my story to get to the interesting bits so, even though my writing is quite dense, I try to add lots of interesting detail into the writing and, from what my readers report, I'm usually more successful than not.

I absolutely love your writing! It's amazing! That is very much what I feel like I enjoy writing. I don't want to limit myself but I really do enjoy the detailed nature. Writing like yours is the kind I can listen to with an audiobook, lay down, close my eyes, and immerse myself in the world. And really feel like I went on a trip when I get up a few hours later. I did that with the Mistborn series. Ugh, so fantastic.

 

[UYScuti]

Good question, although I'd say it depends on how much time is supposed to pass in the story itself and how the major plot points are spaced out (which might both be related)

I agree. Similar to the show 24, where the season is based on a single day, and each episode is one hour in the shows storyline. I just figured @Freesia.Cutepearl is going for a longer period.

I follow the man in the dark long coat down the hall, looking back I see the other man, with the dirty tan cloak, is waiting by the door of iron bars, still holding onto the woman in green, she doesn’t seem to be struggling anymore. I turn back around and catch back up to the long coat man, the hallway we’re walking down has empty cells with iron barred doors along it, most seem to be used as storage, as well as a few rooms with solid wooden doors as we near the end of the hallway.

Sorry, I didn’t see the spoiler earlier. This is more a stylistic approach, but if you are worried about word count being too long, you can try to remove some parts that may be redundant.

ex: The first paragraph

I follow the man in the long, dark coat. Behind me, in a dirty tan cloak, the other man waits, holding the woman in green by the door of iron bars. She doesn’t struggle anymore.

I turn and catch up to the man in the long coat. We walk down a hall of iron-barred cells, mostly empty, except the few used for storage. Near the end, doors turn to solid wood.

This may not seem like a huge difference, but it’s approximately 30% less words. So a chapter of 5,000 words might become 3,500. 50,000 could become 35,000.

Again, that’s stylistic. Your style is your style, I’m just saying if you’re worried about word count being too high (which is probably the opposite of most writers).

 

[yansusustories]

I agree. Similar to the show 24, where the season is based on a single day, and each episode is one hour in the shows storyline. I just figured @Freesia.Cutepearl is going for a longer period.

I actually don't know that show but that sounds like an intriguing concept. Guess I'll go check that out ~