PATREON COULD DISSAPPEAR

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Huskeylord

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Ok so I have seen some videos that suggest that patron my go out of business and shut down.

I don't know any particulars but I thought I should let people know since I'd don't want anybody to lose their ability to write because of financial issues.
(Link above talks about this issue)
(Next link made me realize this issue could affect content creators that I enjoy thus me making this)

Basically if you rely on patreon or are thinking of relying on patreon insuggest finding a new site to use or getting ready to jump ship if patreon does go down.

I'll edit in more information that I find or that gets shared wirh me but I thought people should know.

Edit: after a bit of research I realized that this all started around 2018 but it seems to be going downhill for patreon in a bunch of ways.

Edit2: thank yku to whoever made my other posts forward to this one. Didn't know how to do that.
 
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D

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Well, honestly, a lot of Patreon artists and authors are leaving because they don't agree with the site's PC policies. (And maybe some other issues too.)

I knew friends who did that, and also me.

Edit: There are other sites that offer the same service, like Ko-Fi and SubscribeStar.
 

Sabruness

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Well, honestly, a lot of Patreon artists and authors are leaving because they don't agree with the site's PC policies. (And maybe some other issues too.)

I knew friends who did that, and also me.

Edit: There are other sites that offer the same service, like Ko-Fi and SubscribeStar.
This. I've seen a lot of people pissed off because patreon's gone all PC and woke and also changed their terms to try and take ownership of people's content while demanding people delete their work from other sites because you have to be "exclusive" to earn on patreon now.

the idiots have gone full potato and the likely result may be patreon imploding and failing eventually. good riddance, i say.
 

Sabruness

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TL;DR: Patreon's gone PC, joined the woke squad and became a tyrant.
It's not just non-leftists they're banning but also going after artists and anime-related stuff because woke puritans are screeching like a horde of raving karens.
 

Xiaoshen

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I still can't believe Patreon thought they'd win that court case. Case study in believing your own hype right into the trash.
 

BenJepheneT

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Hahaha Tim pool is a fucking idiot for one. You should be ashamed for posting anything of his lol. And patreon isn't going anywhere. People have been saying that for years
If I'm in the Titanic and it's heading full speed towards the iceberg whilst the announcement is shouting "BIGOTS WHO DISAGREE TO CRASH CAN GTFO" I don't care which brainlet idiot is telling me to get off, I'm still listening to him.
 

Ace_Arriande

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woke puritans

:blob_unsure:
not sure that's how it works but alright

Hahaha Tim pool is a fucking idiot for one. You should be ashamed for posting anything of his lol. And patreon isn't going anywhere. People have been saying that for years

You're not wrong, but there actually is potential for it to happen this time. However, Patreon didn't lose the lawsuit yet. It only failed to obtain a preliminary injunction. It most likely is going to lose the lawsuit, though. And from my understanding, if Patreon does, then it would open the floodgates for plenty of other patrons to try and suck as much money as possible out of Patreon. As for whether that actually happens or not, I have my doubts, but people aren't just overreacting this time for zero reason like usual.
 

Jamminrabbit

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TL;DR: Patreon's gone PC, joined the woke squad and became a tyrant.
It's not just non-leftists they're banning but also going after artists and anime-related stuff because woke puritans are screeching like a horde of raving karens.
Who hurt you?
 

Discount_Blade

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I used to laugh when people said get woke, go broke due to the leftist crap being pushed. Yes I say crap, eat me. Now after numerous failed hollywood spins with obvious lefty political spins, various failed television pilots pushing leftist ideology, quite a few new comic book failures for the exact same reasons......ummm gee guys......maybe there's something to that?

For some reason, the only area they haven't taken significant losses and actually seem to be gaining a little, not a lot but a little ground, is video gaming. Last of Us 2, people keep saying anyway, will be the first blow against them but idk. I've noticed stupidity comes in all shapes and sizes and it never has a lack of willing support.

I have no faith in humanity so I'm sure morons will leap to save these idiots and think themselves such good people for it too.
 

Ace_Arriande

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Last of Us 2, people keep saying anyway, will be the first blow against them but idk.
"In its release weekend, The Last of Us Part II sold over 4 million copies worldwide, becoming the fastest-selling PlayStation 4 exclusive, beating Marvel's Spider-Man's 3.3 million and God of War's 3.1 million in the same period."

Yeah, about that being the first blow against them.... The people who are still trying to claim that TLoU2 is going to hurt them are delusional. It was a massive success and all of the "outrage" only helped it.

I typed like 2.5k words here since I wanted to say just how much you should still be laughing at "get woke go broke" due to it: one, not being true; and two, actually benefiting the right more than the "left" when the media tries to pretend it gives even the slightest shit about people, but I'd rather not get into some major political discussion. All I'm gonna say is that I wish "get woke, go broke" was a legitimate thing because then it would mean that the people having "leftist views" pushed onto them aren't being placated like sheep by companies pretending to give a shit about them. Also, the "woke" Marvel and Star Wars movies made a stupid amount of money that more than makes up for all of the failed attempts at going woke.

Now, to tie this back into the purpose of the thread. Here's Patreon's stats:

stats.PNG


See that little part I underlined? That was when Patreon first started banning "right-leaning" creators on the platform. That was when everybody was saying how Patreon was going to go broke because of their decision to "play politics" and "get woke" and all that.

Make of that what you will.

If Patreon goes bankrupt here, and that's a massive if, it's not because they went "woke," it's because they tried fucking around with a legally-binding agreement in the middle of people trying to make use of that legally-binding agreement. If Patreon wouldn't have fucked around with the ToS without informing people then none of this would be a major deal right now and nobody would give a shit. Instead, Patreon went full greed, which is kinda the opposite of going woke, and tried to fuck with actual law.
 

Discount_Blade

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"In its release weekend, The Last of Us Part II sold over 4 million copies worldwide, becoming the fastest-selling PlayStation 4 exclusive, beating Marvel's Spider-Man's 3.3 million and God of War's 3.1 million in the same period."

Yeah, about that being the first blow against them.... The people who are still trying to claim that TLoU2 is going to hurt them are delusional. It was a massive success and all of the "outrage" only helped it.

I typed like 2.5k words here since I wanted to say just how much you should still be laughing at "get woke go broke" due to it: one, not being true; and two, actually benefiting the right more than the "left" when the media tries to pretend it gives even the slightest shit about people, but I'd rather not get into some major political discussion. All I'm gonna say is that I wish "get woke, go broke" was a legitimate thing because then it would mean that the people having "leftist views" pushed onto them aren't being placated like sheep by companies pretending to give a shit about them. Also, the "woke" Marvel and Star Wars movies made a stupid amount of money that more than makes up for all of the failed attempts at going woke.

Now, to tie this back into the purpose of the thread. Here's Patreon's stats:

View attachment 3351

See that little part I underlined? That was when Patreon first started banning "right-leaning" creators on the platform. That was when everybody was saying how Patreon was going to go broke because of their decision to "play politics" and "get woke" and all that.

Make of that what you will.

If Patreon goes bankrupt here, and that's a massive if, it's not because they went "woke," it's because they tried fucking around with a legally-binding agreement in the middle of people trying to make use of that legally-binding agreement. If Patreon wouldn't have fucked around with the ToS without informing people then none of this would be a major deal right now and nobody would give a shit. Instead, Patreon went full greed, which is kinda the opposite of going woke, and tried to fuck with actual law.

Thanks for the reply. And once again, you have only enforced my earlier statement: I have no faith in humanity.

If Cthulu or some other space-faring existence came and wiped us out, I'd be the guy who said, "What took 'em so long?".

Probably because they were laughing and wondering how far we could take our own foolishness, then they realized we weren't reaching any real limits and decided to wipe us out before it got too bad. Like you said, all this media shit is just for politics and influence. No left-leaning entity you see on television would give two shits about any of these communities if they weren't benefitting them currently. I mean thats politics in general. Left or right, but its exceptionally bad with the left in the past 5-6 years. The moment its not useful to to be gay or black or trans or whatever, Democrats drop them all and move on. Maybe even kick a little dirt on them and spit in passing.

All this communism spiel showing up lately is blowing my mind too because they genuinely believe in what they say, despite various other officials in other countries saying, "yeah no it doesn't work that way". But I digress.

I regret all of the political science classes I took and wish I had stayed focusing solely on my historian path but oh well, curiosity killed the cat.
 
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Jemini

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I used to laugh when people said get woke, go broke due to the leftist crap being pushed. Yes I say crap, eat me. Now after numerous failed hollywood spins with obvious lefty political spins, various failed television pilots pushing leftist ideology, quite a few new comic book failures for the exact same reasons......ummm gee guys......maybe there's something to that?

If you'd like my (politically) neutral stance opinion, the reason these efforts fail is because they seem to be under the mistaken impression that getting woke is all they need to do to make their product work and that alone will be enough to carry it. They are just bad artists to start with. (And, usually, they are pretty bad people as well.)

To offer a counter-factual here, Star Trek and Planet of the Apes were two series that by today's standards would be so INCREDIBLY "woke" that it would put modern day examples to shame. However, they had 2 key advantages here. 1. They were the first on the scene. They were treading relatively un-touched ground, and taking a huge risk in doing so. Therefore, they knew they had to reinforce their product, make their best case, and present it as a part of an otherwise phenomenal story that would allow the viewer to accept the message they were working into it. 2. They were both made at a time where these messages actually NEEDED to be heard. Things like anti race-mixing laws were still on the books when Star Trek did the first interracial kiss, the anti-appartide fight was in full swing when Planet of the Apes made it's highly anti-collonial messaging. These series were not just trying to guilt people over past issues, they were dealing with very present CURRENT problems in a rather brilliant way.

There is also a possible 3rd point that is kinda derived from the 1st in that, due to these being the first on the scene for this kind of thing, they were not dealing with an audience who was just sick and tired of the woke messaging. Instead, they were putting it in front of an audience that was shocked by it, and that shock got them paying attention. They were messaging to what they expected to be a hostile audience, and were instead surprised to get a lot of people agreeing that these were indeed very real and present problems.

Now, I'm sure the modern day woke crowd would argue my point 3 is exactly what they are trying to do as well, but let's be serious here. They are not making an otherwise good product, and they are also not dealing with plainly visible problems where there are laws on the legal books and problems that are right in front of your face. If you say the issue is deeper than that, then you have to acnowledge that and educate the audience. That requires you to dig deep in the research and present it in an effective way for the audience. Unfortunately, when you do so, you often find that the convincing evidence simply does not exist, and in fact there's plenty of counter evidence to suggest the issue you're trying to rile people up about actually doesn't exist. So, the efforts to do what would actually make a good product are kinda hazardous to the narrative they're trying to put together.

(Ok, yes, by politically neutral I meant I'm fairly left-wing by 1960s standards, but this modern day woke crowd doesn't know what they're talking about. They're just beating the same dead horse we already killed half a century ago.)
 

Discount_Blade

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If you'd like my (politically) neutral stance opinion, the reason these efforts fail is because they seem to be under the mistaken impression that getting woke is all they need to do to make their product work and that alone will be enough to carry it. They are just bad artists to start with. (And, usually, they are pretty bad people as well.)

To offer a counter-factual here, Star Trek and Planet of the Apes were two series that by today's standards would be so INCREDIBLY "woke" that it would put modern day examples to shame. However, they had 2 key advantages here. 1. They were the first on the scene. They were treading relatively un-touched ground, and taking a huge risk in doing so. Therefore, they knew they had to reinforce their product, make their best case, and present it as a part of an otherwise phenomenal story that would allow the viewer to accept the message they were working into it. 2. They were both made at a time where these messages actually NEEDED to be heard. Things like anti race-mixing laws were still on the books when Star Trek did the first interracial kiss, the anti-appartide fight was in full swing when Planet of the Apes made it's highly anti-collonial messaging. These series were not just trying to guilt people over past issues, they were dealing with very present CURRENT problems in a rather brilliant way.

There is also a possible 3rd point that is kinda derived from the 1st in that, due to these being the first on the scene for this kind of thing, they were not dealing with an audience who was just sick and tired of the woke messaging. Instead, they were putting it in front of an audience that was shocked by it, and that shock got them paying attention. They were messaging to what they expected to be a hostile audience, and were instead surprised to get a lot of people agreeing that these were indeed very real and present problems.

Now, I'm sure the modern day woke crowd would argue my point 3 is exactly what they are trying to do as well, but let's be serious here. They are not making an otherwise good product, and they are also not dealing with plainly visible problems where there are laws on the legal books and problems that are right in front of your face. If you say the issue is deeper than that, then you have to acnowledge that and educate the audience. That requires you to dig deep in the research and present it in an effective way for the audience. Unfortunately, when you do so, you often find that the convincing evidence simply does not exist, and in fact there's plenty of counter evidence to suggest the issue you're trying to rile people up about actually doesn't exist. So, the efforts to do what would actually make a good product are kinda hazardous to the narrative they're trying to put together.

(Ok, yes, by politically neutral I meant I'm fairly left-wing by 1960s standards, but this modern day woke crowd doesn't know what they're talking about. They're just beating the same dead horse we already killed half a century ago.)
Believe it or not, I used to consider myself a Neutral/independent/ leaning towards moderate left wing until Obama's second term. His first term was bad, but not very bad. It was more meh. It was still better than Bush's second term so I withheld judgement. But I got doubtful. I loved Bill Clinton. He was a very good president minus the office scandal that seems to be the only thing anyone remembers anymore. He wasn't very good with foreign ventures, something Obama was very poor at too, but he was exceptionally gifted in our domestic economy. Something Obama was terrible at. Still, Bill was considered a moderate. But man, From 2012 to now, the left just went fucking insane and here we are now. It might've started sooner, but my first time noticing it was Obama's second term.

I was driven to the other side.
 

mostlyharmfulll

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The one thing I hate about woke is that it is fucking EVERYWHERE: Video games, movies, comics, everything has to be political nowadays. Man, can't we just enjoy stuff for what it is?

Back to topic: I don't think that Patreon is gonna go anytime soon. They are way to big and while they have competition, said competition is currently far smaller than them. The lawsuit might be a big blow, but I am not sure if it is gonna be the killing blow.
 

thedude3445

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Patreon is gonna do just fine. Stop letting these Intellectual Youtube Skeptics poison your brain lol. They don't even believe their own ideology, they just want your money
 

AlexaTiresias

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I can’t speak as to the nature of whatever is going on with Patreon, but I will say this: none of the major companies that you claim are “getting woke” are caving to social pressure, they are simply trying to appeal to a wider audience, and thus make more money. This is perfectly legitimate. Does Marvel adding black representation really detract that much from the movies? Furthermore, what exactly is so bad about political correctness? Most of the time it basically translates to “Don’t be a dick to people”. Finally, I would guess that when you say that Patreon is banning right-wing users, I doubt it is simply because they are right-wing. Most likely, they are banning people who post hate speech, or are advocating violence against nonwhites, or other Nazi-ish stuff. I hope we can all agree that removing those things is a good thing.
 

Jemini

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I can’t speak as to the nature of whatever is going on with Patreon, but I will say this: none of the major companies that you claim are “getting woke” are caving to social pressure, they are simply trying to appeal to a wider audience, and thus make more money. This is perfectly legitimate. Does Marvel adding black representation really detract that much from the movies? Furthermore, what exactly is so bad about political correctness? Most of the time it basically translates to “Don’t be a dick to people”. Finally, I would guess that when you say that Patreon is banning right-wing users, I doubt it is simply because they are right-wing. Most likely, they are banning people who post hate speech, or are advocating violence against nonwhites, or other Nazi-ish stuff. I hope we can all agree that removing those things is a good thing.

Boy, you most certainly haven't been paying attention these days. And, by the sounds of it, you also didn't watch the video. Let's take the points in order.

but I will say this: none of the major companies that you claim are “getting woke” are caving to social pressure, they are simply trying to appeal to a wider audience, and thus make more money.

This is the simplest point. Track record shows that the act of getting woke alienates half the potential market these days. Therefore, when they make the decision to do some woke messaging it is either the case that they are not aware of this track record because they are not getting the full picture, or they are taking a gamble that the woke messaging will appeal to the crowd this message appeals to more than it will alienate the crowd it will alienate. The gamble here would be that the alienated crowd would still buy the product while they get more customers from the crowd it appeals to, or possibly they believe their customer base has very few members of the crowd this would alienate.

There is a term, "get woke, go broke," and it applies to the companies that loose on this gamble. So far, I have heard of cases like Nike where their woke messaging caused them to break even on the result, loosing about an equal amount of business to the business they gained for their woke messaging with Collin Capernic. And, I have also heard cases where "get woke, go broke" very much applies in that they lost a huge chunk of revenue after "getting woke." However, these cases often also have other mitigating factors such as these companies that started to "get woke" already loosing money for other reasons.

Overall, it is a nebulous subject as to whether or not this kind of woke messaging is something that will kill a company, but I have also seen no actual sign of this woke messaging stuff being beneficial for a company either and there are a lot of people who make noise and stir up negative word-of-mouth across the internet on companies that "get woke." That kind of negative messaging is not the kind of headache I would want as a company CEO.

Does Marvel adding black representation really detract that much from the movies?

This is a fairly serious case of not quite knowing what you're talking about as well. Most of the anti-woke criticisms toward Marvel revolve around them changing already existing characters, such as turning Thor female or having Gene Grey brainwash Ice Man into becoming gay in X-men. That's the kind of stuff that distracted from the product and SERIOUSLY upset fans. And, yes, it lost a LOT of money when they made those moves.

Black representation, so far, has been done in the form of just creating entirely new black characters to add to the roster. And, no, I am not aware of anyone who has been really upset about it aside from Miles Meralis as an alternate-universe Spiderman. That's the only case, but they largely did it right due to the fact that 1. They strongly emphisized the point he was an alternate universe version to the extent where every single last one of the Spiderman rogues gallery has an alternate version for the Miles Meralis universe, and 2. He was a new character, not a perversion on an already existing one. As such, the audience only needed a little bit of time to get used to the idea of Miles Meralis and they didn't just warm up to him, but he became a beloved part of the Spiderman multiverse to the point that these days just about every rendition of Spiderman needs to at some point hit a point in the plot where inter-dimensional travel becomes a thing so Peter Parker can meet Miles Meralis.

Most of the time it basically translates to “Don’t be a dick to people”.

Yeah, no. Just no. If this is what you think political correctness translates to, then you REALLY have not been paying any attention at all to the cases of blatant censorship that has been going on under the guise of "political correctness."

The accurate characterization of "political correctness" is "don't criticize this politically-oriented ideology."

"Political correctness," FYI, is a term that originally came out of the Soviet Union, and was called out in the works of George Orwell. It means, "words and opinions that are not correct politically." AKA, against the party. And, in the Soviet Union, being politically incorrect, or rather, speaking out against Stallin, got you either killed or thrown into a Gulague (but I repeat myself.)

"Political correctness" these days has been used as an excuse to shut down things like questioning the idea of a wage gap, pointing out that the best research on the subject has only 2% of the wage difference between men and women unaccountable by explanations such as working longer hours, more education, traveling for work, or otherwise just working a different job entirely. The 72 cents on the dollar statistic comes from comparing all women's wages to all men's wages without accounting for even the fact men and women often choose different careers.

Pointing out the rate of so-called "trans kids" who regret their decision to change genders and realize they made a mistake because they were just confused kids getting bad messaging (It's over 50%, FYI. In individuals under 18, this rate is FAR higher than the 5% or so of people over 18 who transition who regret it.)

And, most disturbingly, pointing out that some women lie about being raped.

All of these are very serious issues that warrant serious discussion, but these are the kinds of subjects that get shut down under the banner "politically incorrect" these days. The only reason you would ever characterize it the way you did would be if you have simply not been paying attention at all.

And now, finally.

Finally, I would guess that when you say that Patreon is banning right-wing users, I doubt it is simply because they are right-wing. Most likely, they are banning people who post hate speech, or are advocating violence against nonwhites, or other Nazi-ish stuff. I hope we can all agree that removing those things is a good thing.

Again, watch the attached video at the top. Just like my point with the politically incorrect stuff, that's not what's going on at all and it's a LOT more complicated than that. I'm not so certain about the current rash of mass banning, but the first 3 famous cases at least did not fit that bill at all.

Furthermore, the issue has never been the banning, it was the "Without notice" insta-ban part. Especially considering the fact Patreon is a money-handling service, that sort of thing is the kind of thing that should be reserved only for actual criminal activities such as child pornography or the funding of violent criminal activity. These people they banned were more along the lines of just people who said the kinds of things I referenced in the "politically incorrectness" portion.

The real issue though is that the bans were all explicitly in disagreement with Patreon's terms of service. When they banned Lauren Southern, the terms of service explicitly stated that you would get a warning first and yet she was banned without notice. Then, they explicitly promised they would never do it again. Yet, they then went and did the exact same thing to Carl Benjamin.

In Carl Benjamin's case, it was even worse, because they banned him for a word he said 2 years previous on a live-stream that was not and never was on Patreon. Patreon's terms of service at the time also stated they would not ban you for things said off platform. And, as stated above, it also STILL said they would give appropriate 3 strikes worth of warning first, and this was after they had stated they would never ban without notice again after the Lauren Southern case.

You can state your case for whether or not Nazi-ish stuff ought to be allowed anywhere, but the one thing we want around even less than Nazi-ish stuff is a company that's able to just snap it's fingers and take away your income without warning. That's even worse than someone talking some offensive BS.
 
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