Highly experimental: in need of genuine feedbacks.

[Shorgoth]

So before we start, if you can't stand any form of AI usage, this is not for you. The text of the novel is not AI (98%, there is a deliberate exception), but the images and music are; 18 years without finding partners made me go for the only way I can afford to do this. No, I do not have the 300 million USD required to pay artists of the calibre I aim for. Especially not for a niche cyberpunk novel I don't sell or make any money from. I'm making this for my own sake, for my own sense of aesthetics and philosophy.

What I'd like is not a rating, it's impressions. This story will challenge A LOT of your preconceptions about book writing. Many of you will not like it at all... that's fine, it doesn't concern you. I want the opinion of those who are willing to see something truly new and experimental and are willing to give some impressions on it.

The only part of the text of the novel AI made is an AI report dossier... nothing better than crap AI to make crap AI comments on a subject for a cheap dossier by a scummy information broker... What is really AI is the music (more than 1 dedicated song per chapter) and the images. Both extra mediums are a "work in progress" and act as PLEACE HOLDERS for now. I am not satisfied with most of them, especially on the visual side, for now. Music isn't as bad, but the images I literally gave up for most of it for now, until the tools become much better and allow me to make more pinpoint modifications. Though what is there can give you an idea of what I'm going for.

What I'm trying to do: I'm trying to make bespoke songs and images to replace traditional narration. The story is written more like a movie script with name tags. There are UI elements inserted in the text to represent technological communication and HUD elements. There will be more with time. The songs are used to do a few different things: inner emotional truths of the characters when they lie (to themselves or others) in the dialogues, corpo propaganda, diegetic songs (in universe), and other character perspectives. Both the music and the lyrics are textual to the story itself. The sound often cues you to the emotional undercurrents; the lyrics are literally part of the narration to replace the normal descriptive narration we would expect in a normal book. Same with the images. Sadly, I haven't completed that aspect for now, even for published chapters... it will leave some holes... sorry about that, the current AI are just too dumb. It should be remade and unified as a set of grand masters painting, namely chiaroscuro oil on canvas, inspired by Rembrandt and Carravaggio styles mostly (with a few exceptions), with a style a bit reminiscent of "Passion" type religious iconography but with some neon and grime in the mix.

The goal is to create friction between the media to create negative space, and in the negative space, the truth of the events can be intuited. As an example, the MC might be bouncing a ball to the ceiling, bored on the surface and calmly denying her brain implants' suggestions for new hobbies, meanwhile the image speaks of a burnt out body and mind with dead fish eyes, while the song is unhealthy coping mechanisms, inner screams and anger... The truth is all of those things together, yet none in isolation.

The use of AI-sounding music elements is deliberate in many places; this is a cyberpunk; the AI crap used by corpo as an example is part of the global artistic intent. In this case, the tangible use of AI is a legitimate part of the larger message itself.

Warnings: 1st person present narration from inside the MC's head. Explicit language is omnipresent and vulgar. Raw, unglamourized violence and trauma. I'd consider this a mature-themed story. Some characters have racism issues, and I do not endorse them in any shape or form; I'm simply trying to make realistic characters. This is a characterization of a world in ruin, not an ideal or a hero myth type story. This is as dystopic as I could conceive it back 18 years ago when I started, and I do not pull my punches.

There is a twist planned for the end that rewrites the book completely from just knowing the end, a bit like the 6th sense, but more intense...

Anyway, that's about it, hope I'll get someone curious enough to give it a try.

Paradise City: Dark Side of the Moon

Paradise ain't for the faint of heart. I grew up in these domes, stuck between the glassy dust on the ground and the dark oblivion of space. To get here, to the Moon, our parents gave up everything. Problem is, they had nothing on Earth to begin with. Nothing to...

www.scribblehub.com

If someone is just curious about the OST: https://suno.com/playlist/5bd54d93-021e-482f-8c08-47c59d2aa005

 

[SouthernMaiden]

Is this a screenplay? My first impression is that it reads like a screenplay

 

[Shorgoth]

Is this a screenplay? My first impression is that it reads like a screenplay

Not exactly, it is structured like one, I'm considering turning it into a first-person VR movie at some point, but technically it isn't, though it is similar to one in nature. This is v3, the v2 was an attempt at pure dialogue, no narration at all... the name tags were the solution I found then to get around some of the limitations I had put on myself. Cere was another of these tricks I had to always have someone Kate could always talk with, or as a source of exposition. It was all a reaction to my v1 that had a very tell-don't-show, overexposition porn taste, with a weak carton cardboard MC XD. Back then, I saw this constraint I put for V2 to forego any narration as a way to train myself out of overexposition and weak characterization, since everything would have to go through them. I learned a lot from this, but it was just too disorienting. I started to add sensory narration, then AI happened, and I started to turn it into somewhat of a movie-like experience. The addition of sensory elements came later on. The goal is to make the experience visceral and intimate relative to the MC, to be subject to the same distortions of perception she is.

Technically, the term is a Gesamtkunstwerk, a "total work of art", a form of multimedia project.

 

[Eldoria]

This future narrative... goes beyond my narrative knowledge. I throw up my hands.

 

[Rosica]

This future narrative... goes beyond my narrative knowledge. I throw up my hands.

"You need more eyes, eat slugs."
Vicn.

 

[Shorgoth]

You don't have to be anxious about the technicality; I am simply looking for gut feelings. Think of it like a weird hybrid between a movie and a book, and tell me how the structure makes you feel. This is more about gut feeling than anything else, really. Yes, my explanation is somewhat technical, but it is to try to explain my intent, not how I'm looking to be answered.

I just want to know if it works for some, what sections feel iffy... that kind of stuff.

 

[BeezussWrites]

I will tell you as someone who wrote over 120k words in screenplay format, mixed with book for my "theme," that readers really don't seem to enjoy this. Paid for a few beta readers, and I mostly got the same ideas about it needing way more interiority/description than the format was capable of giving. Does it work? For what you're going for, I think so. Will readers specifically give it a shot? Possibly, but you're fighting an uphill battle.

The biggest fault with this style of dialogue-first stories is that it requires the dialogue itself to do a ton of heavy lifting that prose would often do. This often leads to over dramatized sounding characters speaking lines of exposition that would usually be naturally tackled through narration. Just realize you'll have to essentially deliver every line like this: "There are more wild animals on the whole moon than virgins like you" to fully flesh out your world.


Also, I'm not actually sure what's going on with lines line this "Kate- Burning conviction smouldering in her veins." They're kind of formatted like lines of dialogue, but written as prose? I kept having to go back when I realized the characters weren't actually speaking these parts. I'd suggest some sort of change in the format for these specifically to help with clarity.


This isn't a doomed format, but I'd suggest at least leaning closer toward traditional screenplay if you're going to continue it.

 

[Shorgoth]

I explained the formatting in the author's note right at the beginning. The italicized text is sensory impressions. The story is an internal first-person; I aim to plunge people into her psyche and body. The images and the music are used to replace traditional narration. Together, they allow you to follow along without falling into the issues you are mentioning. I did indeed face them in the v2 (this is v3), hence why I added music and images to the narration. We see what she sees and "feel" what she feels.

I know this isn't popular, I don't need to hear about that part, I get it after 18 years working on it. I'm going for a new niche experimental experience to try to create a new form of narrative, not to dilute the experience to please the masses. I need to know where it breaks for those who are willing to give it an actual try. I don't intend to rewrite it in full because this is my clear artistic intent.

Thank you for giving it a try, but sadly, this is not the sort of advice I'm looking for at all. I'm not looking for a "don't do this, it's not popular," I don't care about that. I'm looking for how to make this work better. This is experimental, not aimed at the mainstream and never will be.

 

[HouseDelarouxScribbles]

It is an interesting work, since when I read the first chapter, I manually replayed a lot of the feedback I received for /Conspiracy/ Girls, since they seemed to mirror my thoughts on your work and have some similar points to the other suggestions you received earlier.

Since you asked for impressions, I read this more as someone who sees this as a piece to be adapted to video; so imagine if one day you gave it to a video editor to truly turn it into a musical novel as you envision it, I think the goal is that the writing should be able to portray the vision clearly!

The piece takes the style of a gritty, dystopian western-cyberpunk, that much I can surmise from the dialogue alone! There are a lot of little details hidden into the dialogue, and it feels like each quip is a 'barb' on how terrible the conditions are. It leans post-modern, and I feel that the coarseness is very hit-and-miss.

Currently, I do not think the piece reads very well as a 'written work'. There is a barrier to entry in having to memorize the 'formatting rules' to get by, and most authors and readers just use sound-words (think 'bing', 'bang', 'boof') to get by. I think the central improvement is for the piece to decide whether it wants to be a piece that can be 'read', or a piece with instructions for it 'adapted'.

I note the banter mostly goes on between the main character and the AI in her head, which feels extremely odd to me, especially if adapted. One thing that the Cyberpunk 2077 game did right was to give Johnny Silverhand (basically an AI implanted into the main character) a personality and turn him into a real character, someone you can root for/ hate. It feels a little better than the current setup where it feels like character is talking to themselves. Right now, Cere feels quite flat, because he 'responds' far more to Kate than takes initiative, making it feel like he's not a real character at all. (chapter 1)

I also note that on the adaptation side, the 'descriptions of faces' do not jive well with me. It doesn't really tell me anything whenever Kate flaashes a face, just a vague, general sense. I don't really 'see' it, just the feeling the style of writing is based off the style of TV show hard cuts. It would be fine if the camera action was different each time, but it is a technique used too much, and it starts to wear off its welcome really fast. A better way would be to describe the type of smile, how you imagine it will be shot. The more details, the closer the reader is to your vision!

Book-readers expect certain things, and since "The medium makes the message," it would be good to include those norms in there, if only because it would help whoever is adapting it see your vision clearer too!

A little skeptical of the future-Frxnch setting, since beside language slurs, the Frxnchness does not come across very well. If you told me that it was future-Germany or any generic cyberpunk setting with a muted Frxnch quarters, I would have believed it as well. A lot of people have given feedback that my own use of 'alt languages' confuse them, and I finally felt it when I read the Frxnch bits in your story, especially around the old woman part, where I have no idea why the old woman was doing the tapping, or what was the relation between her and the target. It felt really hard to follow, despite me following the "ok it's dystopia" feeling well at the start. I would ask: What is central to the story's identity that needs to be conveyed in Frxnch, and work from there!

In general, the piece has no shortage of dialogue, the author is very attuned to the idea of writing for TV shows, but it doesn't quite work well for general reading. If there is one guiding line to remember, it is this: "The medium makes the message." At some point, the work has to choose between whether it works as a standalone text, or has to be paired with special effects.

Book readers expect to read a book, so at least some small allowance should be given to the experience of reading it as a book. The 'reading' experience is diluted due to a lack of descriptions, transitions, and general things reading audiences expect. Even when reading it as a piece that could be fitted with music and motion, there are many times I find it difficult to follow the 'image' in the author's mind, because the image simply isn't there, except for a very bare minimum of words.

The above are my thoughts on the piece, and I do realize that it could have easily all applied to an older work that was posted here in /Conspiracy/ Girls. It is indeed something to give thought on, if you are interested, would you care to give that a read and tell me what you think? I am interested to hear what someone who is working on a different strain of what I wanted to achieve thinks as well!

 

[Shorgoth]

It is an interesting work, since when I read the first chapter, I manually replayed a lot of the feedback I received for /Conspiracy/ Girls, since they seemed to mirror my thoughts on your work and have some similar points to the other suggestions you received earlier.

Since you asked for impressions, I read this more as someone who sees this as a piece to be adapted to video; so imagine if one day you gave it to a video editor to truly turn it into a musical novel as you envision it, I think the goal is that the writing should be able to portray the vision clearly!

The piece takes the style of a gritty, dystopian western-cyberpunk, that much I can surmise from the dialogue alone! There are a lot of little details hidden into the dialogue, and it feels like each quip is a 'barb' on how terrible the conditions are. It leans post-modern, and I feel that the coarseness is very hit-and-miss.

Currently, I do not think the piece reads very well as a 'written work'. There is a barrier to entry in having to memorize the 'formatting rules' to get by, and most authors and readers just use sound-words (think 'bing', 'bang', 'boof') to get by. I think the central improvement is for the piece to decide whether it wants to be a piece that can be 'read', or a piece with instructions for it 'adapted'.

I note the banter mostly goes on between the main character and the AI in her head, which feels extremely odd to me, especially if adapted. One thing that the Cyberpunk 2077 game did right was to give Johnny Silverhand (basically an AI implanted into the main character) a personality and turn him into a real character, someone you can root for/ hate. It feels a little better than the current setup where it feels like character is talking to themselves. Right now, Cere feels quite flat, because he 'responds' far more to Kate than takes initiative, making it feel like he's not a real character at all. (chapter 1)

I also note that on the adaptation side, the 'descriptions of faces' do not jive well with me. It doesn't really tell me anything whenever Kate flaashes a face, just a vague, general sense. I don't really 'see' it, just the feeling the style of writing is based off the style of TV show hard cuts. It would be fine if the camera action was different each time, but it is a technique used too much, and it starts to wear off its welcome really fast. A better way would be to describe the type of smile, how you imagine it will be shot. The more details, the closer the reader is to your vision!

Book-readers expect certain things, and since "The medium makes the message," it would be good to include those norms in there, if only because it would help whoever is adapting it see your vision clearer too!

A little skeptical of the future-Frxnch setting, since beside language slurs, the Frxnchness does not come across very well. If you told me that it was future-Germany or any generic cyberpunk setting with a muted Frxnch quarters, I would have believed it as well. A lot of people have given feedback that my own use of 'alt languages' confuse them, and I finally felt it when I read the Frxnch bits in your story, especially around the old woman part, where I have no idea why the old woman was doing the tapping, or what was the relation between her and the target. It felt really hard to follow, despite me following the "ok it's dystopia" feeling well at the start. I would ask: What is central to the story's identity that needs to be conveyed in Frxnch, and work from there!

In general, the piece has no shortage of dialogue, the author is very attuned to the idea of writing for TV shows, but it doesn't quite work well for general reading. If there is one guiding line to remember, it is this: "The medium makes the message." At some point, the work has to choose between whether it works as a standalone text, or has to be paired with special effects.

Book readers expect to read a book, so at least some small allowance should be given to the experience of reading it as a book. The 'reading' experience is diluted due to a lack of descriptions, transitions, and general things reading audiences expect. Even when reading it as a piece that could be fitted with music and motion, there are many times I find it difficult to follow the 'image' in the author's mind, because the image simply isn't there, except for a very bare minimum of words.

The above are my thoughts on the piece, and I do realize that it could have easily all applied to an older work that was posted here in /Conspiracy/ Girls. It is indeed something to give thought on, if you are interested, would you care to give that a read and tell me what you think? I am interested to hear what someone who is working on a different strain of what I wanted to achieve thinks as well!

First, thank you for giving it a try. Clearly, though, you didn't quite get the idea, and from it stem many misconceptions... and I suspect a lot of your personal worldview and life experience fall far outside of this type of reality. That's one of the reasons this work is challenging if you do not have similar life experiences... so it's not for everyone. Basically, you focused on criticizing not the work itself but trying to tie it to preconceptions about what you think writing should be, but writing is a much larger tradition than what you think it is.

Let me clarify some things.

The reason I describe physical reaction from the MC is that it is not an external story; it's a first-person story "from the inside of the MC." So what you get served, it's her feeling part of herself react, the mouth, the tension and so on. Those are not visual descriptions; they are uncontrolled physical reactions to internal turmoil. These microexpressions are to be read as emotion, or sometimes how she feels (cold, damp and so on). I don't name those emotions and sensations; I describe how the body reacts.

I was considering turning it into a first-person VR movie from the MC's perspective (not a game, a pure on-rail experience) at some point, but for now, I don't have the tools, contacts, team or budget. Maybe in a future with AI...

I notice you haven't really mentioned the music or the visual integration in your perception of the work. I wonder why. This is the real narrative structure that's supposed to replace traditional narration. If you skipped those, you are missing the subtext.

Cere, the brain implant is an LLM, not a real person, so it is deliberately flat.

As for the old woman, it's not that complicated; it's explicit. She was used by the MC to approach the doctor in the crowd without grabbing attention; there is no direct relation except proximity. As for her reaction was because the MC was rude and entitled, and she's an old woman in a dystopia, she's all out of f*** to give.

The French part, I'm a French speaker, sorry, but if you have issues with people using a language other than English, with translation directly added to the text... not everywhere is the USA, the World does not speak English uniformly.

As for the coarseness, Kate is having a very bad day; it's not to that degree all the time.

I'm guessing you stopped at chapter 1... a lot of these things are explained later on or are more fleshed out over time... again, this is chapter 1.

It's work that has a very high degree of detail, as you noted, but you don't need to understand every micro detail to get it at large; getting a general feeling is how it's supposed to work on a first read. The idea is to emphasize the emotional and mental state of the MC in a very intimate way, so she can be understood on an emotional level, not a rational one, because, well, she is not rational. While there is a sophisticated plot going forward, it's a slow burn with a long buildup.

I know it's challenging work, it breaks all traditional conventions, and I'm not going to recant on that. This is part of the story itself, dredging ideas about frames of reference, false belief systems, the perception of self versus the external mask we show others. I'm wondering now how I can prep the reader to have the right frame of mind about it initially...

I'm not looking at how to make it more generic and standardized; I'm looking for someone who gets it intuitively and can help me round the corners a bit, and make the easing into it more seamless and create the right expectations.