Is It Just Me?

[Dragonpig]

Have you ever noticed that superheroes of color always seem to fold when a villain threatens their community — but white heroes never do?

Blue Marvel, Static Shock, Black Lightning — the moment someone says "stop fighting or your people get hurt," they back down. Batman gets that same threat and fights anyway. Superman, Wonder Woman — they never stop. The story calls that heroic.

 

[Hasako]

Comics have rules, which should and should not happen.
Any universe an author or artist makes has a set of rules they made for their universe.
It's logical and reasonable for their universe, but we sometimes see certain people break the rules of their verse when they could have made an alternate universe and gone crazy with different ideas, though.

 

[Dragonpig]

So let me make sure I'm understanding you. superheroes in the DC universe. The white ones are the only ones that can fight the power, but any other superhero who's not white must bend the knee.

Comics have rules, which should and should not happen.
Any universe an author or artist makes has a set of rules they made for their universe.
It's logical and reasonable for their universe, but we sometimes see certain people break the rules of their verse when they could have made an alternate universe and gone crazy with different ideas, though.

So you're saying. in the DC universe. If a superhero is white. They can fight the power. But if there of any other nationality or of color. They have to bend the knee?

 

[AnEmberOfSundown]

It’s not something I’d noticed before but I don’t think you’re wrong.

If I had to guess, my theory would be that POC superheroes are “saddled” with the additional responsibility of representing their own race/community in addition to whatever their actual story is. That implicit tie doesn’t exist for superheroes that the “normative” bias ignores, ie Batman isn’t a “white” superhero he’s “just” a superhero because that’s the assumed default.

That’s not to say that white heroes couldn’t be stopped by threatening a certain person or persons, but those are usually personal and specific to their backstory and who they’re responsible for.

edit: I also think it’s a catch-22 for the writers unfortunately. If they acknowledge those community ties and use them for the story they get accused of having “an agenda”. If they ignore them, they get accused of whitewashing a problem.

edit 2 (sorry, this just got me thinking): We can’t ignore the weight of history either. After so many years of problematic and racist portrayals in media, any POC hero that even flirts with negative traits (like continuing to fight despite risking lives in their community) runs the risk of being labeled problematic as well. Antiheroes don’t stand a chance- think black Deadpool would sell?

edit 3: Black Deadpool absolutely would sell, actually. But the fandom would be Chernobyl-level toxic. Okay, I’m done.

 

[IWILLDEFYTHEHEAVENS]

Have you ever noticed that superheroes of color always seem to fold when a villain threatens their community — but white heroes never do?

Blue Marvel, Static Shock, Black Lightning — the moment someone says "stop fighting or your people get hurt," they back down. Batman gets that same threat and fights anyway. Superman, Wonder Woman — they never stop. The story calls that heroic.

I never noticed.

 

[CharlesEBrown]

Have you ever noticed that superheroes of color always seem to fold when a villain threatens their community — but white heroes never do?

The superheroes of color? You mean like Martian Manhunter (green) ... or Jemm (red) ... or Kilowog (orange)... Or Impy, The Impossible Man (mostly green, but can change somewhat, and he isn't much of a hero, usually)... Superheroes are very colorful.

Blue Marvel, Static Shock, Black Lightning — the moment someone says "stop fighting or your people get hurt," they back down. Batman gets that same threat and fights anyway. Superman, Wonder Woman — they never stop. The story calls that heroic.

Did you read the original Milestone run of Static back in the 90s? He was possibly the most rounded character in comics, seriously. He did back down sometimes, and sometimes struck out with redoubled fury when "his people" were threatened; he was realistic, really. One of the best written characters of the time, in fact.
Or Icon, who ... well... he was not human but looked like a black man, and was talked into becoming, well, the Superman of the setting. In his first outing, the entire military of Dakota turns its guns on him as he tries to help fight a villain called "Payback." His response? "This kind of thing doesn't seem to happen to Superman..." and he just bulls through to stop the bad guy after TRYING (and failing) to explain.
An interesting side note - in the Milestone setting, and the city of Dakota, Superman is a fictional character. During the "Worlds Collide" event, when Superman appears in Dakota, Blood Syndicate member Holocaust greets him with: "Does Clark Kent know you're wearing his underwear?"

But back to your question, it speaks to character motivation.
Batman is motivated by JUSTICE. He doesn't really worry about communities except as an afterthought. Threaten Gotham, he just works harder to bring you down. Threaten the world and he'll probably call for backup to bring you down.
Superman has backed down in the past, when the threat was too great - he always wins in the end, except when he was very briefly killed, but he does back down. Sometimes as a ruse, true but he does.
Wonder Woman is a warrior - backing down is only an option when commanded to do so by a superior, or if needed to regroup and strike back (and she has in the past).
I don't know Blue Marvel at all.
Black Lightning did not back down when he was younger but in the stories where he is an adult with a family, he also knows his powers have limits and is much more cautious and less headstrong (he also was mentored by Batman and learned to curb his responses by seeing when and how Batman reacted - check out the old runs of The Outsiders).
Luke Cage was very much like Black Lightning (in fact there were accusations that they were the same person with different powers at one time) but he's taken a darker turn lately from what I've read.

 

[Anonjohn20]

So let me make sure I'm understanding you. superheroes in the DC universe. The white ones are the only ones that can fight the power, but any other superhero who's not white must bend the knee.

So you're saying. in the DC universe. If a superhero is white. They can fight the power. But if there of any other nationality or of color. They have to bend the knee?

That is not what Hasako said at all. LOL

 

[TinaMigarlo]

If I had to guess, my theory would be that POC superheroes are “saddled” with the additional responsibility of representing their own race/community in addition to whatever their actual story is.

oh, poop. that implies... they aren't "regular people just *happen* to have different color skin".
cause i thought we were all equal, all the same.
but oh well.

 

[Dragonpig]

That is not what Hasako said at all. LOL

So explain to me for him. What exactly he was saying to me?

It’s not something I’d noticed before but I don’t think you’re wrong.

If I had to guess, my theory would be that POC superheroes are “saddled” with the additional responsibility of representing their own race/community in addition to whatever their actual story is. That implicit tie doesn’t exist for superheroes that the “normative” bias ignores, ie Batman isn’t a “white” superhero he’s “just” a superhero because that’s the assumed default.

That’s not to say that white heroes couldn’t be stopped by threatening a certain person or persons, but those are usually personal and specific to their backstory and who they’re responsible for.

edit: I also think it’s a catch-22 for the writers unfortunately. If they acknowledge those community ties and use them for the story they get accused of having “an agenda”. If they ignore them, they get accused of whitewashing a problem.

edit 2 (sorry, this just got me thinking): We can’t ignore the weight of history either. After so many years of problematic and racist portrayals in media, any POC hero that even flirts with negative traits (like continuing to fight despite risking lives in their community) runs the risk of being labeled problematic as well. Antiheroes don’t stand a chance- think black Deadpool would sell?

edit 3: Black Deadpool absolutely would sell, actually. But the fandom would be Chernobyl-level toxic. Okay, I’m done.

interesting, I don't understand. If you're already being attacked, then your attacker say stand down I will attack more what do you have to win by stopping. Like if I was holding a gun to your head and then I said okay now let's get in the van and go somewhere else.

 

[Emotica]

Have you ever noticed that superheroes of color always seem to fold when a villain threatens their community — but white heroes never do?

Blue Marvel, Static Shock, Black Lightning — the moment someone says "stop fighting or your people get hurt," they back down. Batman gets that same threat and fights anyway. Superman, Wonder Woman — they never stop. The story calls that heroic.

The African-American community has been portrayed in a negative light for a very long time throughout history. When the media is trying to make you out to be violent, and you finally get a chance to add your media to the mix, it makes perfect sense that this would be the result. You forgot MCU Sam Wilson Captain America. Anyway, I think this is pretty well-documented if you dig into the socioeconomics of it. When there's culture, counter-culture follows, and then after that happens back and forth a few times, you usually end up with more media in the middle. It's fascinating, because you can see it happen with almost any group in the media. There are even eras where stereotypes seem to be self-glorified. It's always more complicated than it seems, and who's creating the media and why is always going to change the perspective.

I haven't seen a lot of Blue Marvel, or Black Lightning content, but as far as I know, Static has no real reason to be violent. Neither does BL. They both have powers that would easily neutralize any non-super with relative ease. It'd be cruelty for cruelty's sake and there's often a stronger message behind resilience and restraint, another major part of African-American culture. MCU's new Captain America though just seems like they're afraid to say or do anything really profound with the character, but even then, he's representing his community on a global stage. What people see, matters, and violence is associated with the "bad guys", so it's lowkey a privilege for Batman to do whatever he wants, and Superman simply doesn't have to back down, and even then Superman is practically an immigrant representing the remnants of his culture. No one can ever say all Kryptonians are evil, because Superman is living proof against it. Pretty much every hero is representing a community, and you can definitely read into it and make judgements based on how much they do or don't care.

 

[Dragonpig]

The superheroes of color? You mean like Martian Manhunter (green) ... or Jemm (red) ... or Kilowog (orange)... Or Impy, The Impossible Man (mostly green, but can change somewhat, and he isn't much of a hero, usually)... Superheroes are very colorful.



Did you read the original Milestone run of Static back in the 90s? He was possibly the most rounded character in comics, seriously. He did back down sometimes, and sometimes struck out with redoubled fury when "his people" were threatened; he was realistic, really. One of the best written characters of the time, in fact.
Or Icon, who ... well... he was not human but looked like a black man, and was talked into becoming, well, the Superman of the setting. In his first outing, the entire military of Dakota turns its guns on him as he tries to help fight a villain called "Payback." His response? "This kind of thing doesn't seem to happen to Superman..." and he just bulls through to stop the bad guy after TRYING (and failing) to explain.
An interesting side note - in the Milestone setting, and the city of Dakota, Superman is a fictional character. During the "Worlds Collide" event, when Superman appears in Dakota, Blood Syndicate member Holocaust greets him with: "Does Clark Kent know you're wearing his underwear?"

But back to your question, it speaks to character motivation.
Batman is motivated by JUSTICE. He doesn't really worry about communities except as an afterthought. Threaten Gotham, he just works harder to bring you down. Threaten the world and he'll probably call for backup to bring you down.
Superman has backed down in the past, when the threat was too great - he always wins in the end, except when he was very briefly killed, but he does back down. Sometimes as a ruse, true but he does.
Wonder Woman is a warrior - backing down is only an option when commanded to do so by a superior, or if needed to regroup and strike back (and she has in the past).
I don't know Blue Marvel at all.
Black Lightning did not back down when he was younger but in the stories where he is an adult with a family, he also knows his powers have limits and is much more cautious and less headstrong (he also was mentored by Batman and learned to curb his responses by seeing when and how Batman reacted - check out the old runs of The Outsiders).
Luke Cage was very much like Black Lightning (in fact there were accusations that they were the same person with different powers at one time) but he's taken a darker turn lately from what I've read.

Thank you for that. But I still stand by my Batman theory he is not about justice. He is about Batman.

oh, poop. that implies... they aren't "regular people just *happen* to have different color skin".
cause i thought we were all equal, all the same.
but oh well.

Sorry,, the moment you got super in your name. You're not Normal.