My target is the Japanase LN readers. Is it good to use "telling" more often rather than "showing"?

[TinaMigarlo]

Well, I ignored your misplaced thread.

This time I answer on behalf of causal readers of LN. My short answer... LN fans like telling, not because they like telling, they might not know that there is a better storytelling through showing.

You know, right? Telling and showing are not just about storytelling... it's about reader immersion, about how to involve the reader in interpreting the narrative, about how to make the reader feel as if they can experience the fictional world. Take the following narrative for example:

Telling version:


Showing version:


Notice how the two narratives provide different immersions. In the telling version, the readers feel narratively distanced. They only see a 'report' about a girl standing in a wheat field. They just discover that the girl named Errie feels moved and nostalgic when she sees the grains of wheat. But they don't feel how the girl feels. The readers are just neutral observers. Why?

Because the narrator provides an interpretation of what happened to Errie. This makes the reader's mind passive and stops thinking. They just nod and say, "Oh... there's a girl in the wheat field."

On the other hand, the showing version provides a more immersive reading experience. The readers don't just know what happened to Errie, the readers are invited to feel what she experienced. Through cinematic camera and sensory stimulation, readers experience what is happening to Errie. They can almost smell the aroma of wheat, bringing back nostalgic memories of their grandmother.

The sensory narrative and cinematic narrative camera keep the reader's mind actively interpreting the scene. Even without the narrative explicitly mentioning a touching feeling, readers can draw their own conclusions through her memory, body language, dialogue, and atmosphere.

Honestly, as a former LN reader, after I learned how immersive the experience of reading through a showing narrative is... I've become less fond of a telling narrative where the author continues to dictate to the reader through the narrator.

I've tried opening my LN collection, but when I see a telling narrative, I feel uncomfortable. I can't get into the story. I can't feel what the protagonist is experiencing. Instead, I just see a narrator trying to dictate what happens in the story. As a result, I realize I'm 'reading a story'.

A good narrative should ideally be able to hypnotize the readers that forget they're reading fiction. And a telling narrative creates a narrative distance that makes the readers realize they're reading a story, not living in it.

Well, this maybe it's just my subjective opinion as a causal reader... but LN readers might like to tell narratives not because they hate showing... instead, they don't know that there is a narrative that is so beautiful, so immersive, that it makes them forget that they are reading a story, called showing narrative.

It's like a cat keeps eating raw fish because it doesn't know there is a premium food called cat snacks. But if the cat once enjoyed cat snacks, the cat might not be able to enjoy raw fish anymore... and wants to keep eating cat snacks.

two things. is a "light novel" what I would have called a 'graphic novel'?? IE, a comic book with prose pages. If so, i once enjoyed the hell out of "Koolau the Leper".

second thing, @Eldoria. that's why I fell in love with first person. You can't help the immersion.

"I stood there in the wheat field, admiring the simple majesty of it all. I could smell the sweet pollen with every switch wind that cut across the waving grain. My dress rippled across my nipples and I had the bizarre feeling that the wind was touching me and me alone. I belong to this place,so why did I ever leave. What must I have been thinking."

with true 1st, you can't *help* being immersed.

 

[Eldoria]

with true 1st, you can't *help* being immersed.

Using first POV doesn't automatically make it immersive. Often, authors understand POV as simply the pronoun "I am," not the lived experience of the "I am" subject. As a result, first POV is more likely to serve as meta-commentary explaining other characters, world-building, plot and conflict. It makes first POV more like a news report or diary than immersive fiction.

 

[TinaMigarlo]

I still like it. It feels "personal" like a person that's there or was there, is telling me at length all about it.

 

[MFontana]

two things. is a "light novel" what I would have called a 'graphic novel'?? IE, a comic book with prose pages. If so, i once enjoyed the hell out of "Koolau the Leper".

second thing, @Eldoria. that's why I fell in love with first person. You can't help the immersion.

"I stood there in the wheat field, admiring the simple majesty of it all. I could smell the sweet pollen with every switch wind that cut across the waving grain. My dress rippled across my nipples and I had the bizarre feeling that the wind was touching me and me alone. I belong to this place,so why did I ever leave. What must I have been thinking."

with true 1st, you can't *help* being immersed.

Light novels aren't graphic novels (though many also feature character art inserts between chapters).
They're novels that are typically quick and easy reads (Young-Adult Reading levels typically).
Several popular ones are also rendered in anime format, and manga format as well though.

 

[TinaMigarlo]

Light novels aren't graphic novels (though many also feature character art inserts between chapters).
They're novels that are typically quick and easy reads (Young-Adult Reading levels typically).

Why would adults read that. I mean, you're talking Judy Blume reader level crap here, right? Please tell me that's not the target audience reading level for webnovels.

When the Harry Potter craze hit, I was like... okay. But when the adults started reading it, I just thought it looked like something for ten year olds. I noped out of that whole thing. i never read a "twilight" thingy either.

 

[MFontana]

Why would adults read that. I mean, you're talking Judy Blume reader level crap here, right? Please tell me that's not the target audience reading level for webnovels.

When the Harry Potter craze hit, I was like... okay. But when the adults started reading it, I just thought it looked like something for ten year olds. I noped out of that whole thing. i never read a "twilight" thingy either.

What's a "twilight" thingy?
(If it isn't obvious, this is sarcasm. I also self-selected out quite early on for both.)
But yes, overall that is the rough target reading level for Light Novels. [~Middle School to High School]
Some Light Novels aren't that bad though. They make for easy reading when I'm out and about, and the books aren't that heavy to carry around or add to my bag.
I haven't read many web-novels, so I can't comment to that though.

 

[TinaMigarlo]

Between HP and the twilight type stuff... i just never wanted to read that stuff and never got the huge appeal. i have a (I think) funny story about being given an excerpt from 50-shades to read. i figured at *least* the movies would be decent to look into since I was writing SMUT.

I finally landed the movies at a flea market for a dollar each. wait, all three for two dollars. I kept falling asleep. That was on movie one and movie three. When i finally located movie two, I gave up after three nights trying. i'm being serious. If you can't sleep? I recommend any of the 50-shades movies. Out like a light.

So that's "me" and the hyper popular modern stuff. If someone asked me what I thought would be a good read? The "sunset warrior trilogy". The Dai-San. (Eric Van Lustbader).

 

[Placeholder]

Why would adults read that.

It's the fiction equivalent of tiktok or youtube short videos, for people who are distracted or tired or self-soothing. While on break and so on.

And who haven't committed to a longform piece.

 

[Hans.Trondheim]

From what I've gathered through various forums (especially in JP ones) telling the narrative is preferred with a little side of showing. I researched it further and found that they tend to focus more on plot points, world building, and with a little addition to "like" faster updates.

Is there any JP Light Novel readers here? I wanna know your insights about it. If those Light Novels you've read before had narratives inclined to "tell" than "showing." Thanks!

I write Original English Light Novels (OELNs) so I read JPLNs often. And yes, there are differences between OELN and English literature writing, particularly on the heavy use of dialogues for OELN as contrast to the latter. And also, lots of telling than showing.

Any case, I fused OELN style with English style, specifically on the showing side. Not popular with English readers.

 

[Boundless]

The unskilled authors omit shit thinking it doesn't matter, and it turns out the story is weaker because they never described the the inside of a building, or the sound of traffic, or the feeling a pear has when you bite into it, or how the city works. They just wanted to hit the story beats: "Reincarnated as a $variable_noun with $variable_special_ability. Bought a cheerful compliant directionless sex slave. Now to deconstruct the genre in one particular fussy way/invent soap/use readily available spices to invent 'spiced food'."

But you should ask - how forgettable do you want your story to be? Or are you just going to get a mangaka to do the visual component?

it's a given though. new locations and things should be described by sensory details. but I think what don't really mattered was things that was already established by earlier chapters, or things that had zero impact to the plot or character. mine's that whenever that thing or place was already introduced (on which I surmise that it had plot and character relevance,) I will not add sensory details anymore. yes, only few but sometimes zero. I will tell that is the object and how the character interacted to that object or place (verb-related description.) because i will think that if readers already encountered it before and i gave them sensory details regarding that place or object, why repeat it?

i think i am worrying too much about redundancy, but yeah. i need to shorten my word count per chapter sometimes, and i have to omit sensory details on that manner, too. was i worrying for too much? idk. that's why i'm here. HAHAHA.

Also, Light Novels are not something you should aim for.

They are merely volume-based novels with occasional artworks. The "Light" merely means somewhat casual.

Just write your own story and focus on the plot, and don't try to desperately emulate a certain format.

sorry, but that's the main reason why I became a writer: to write Light Novels.

I do admit that I want to break the norms of creating characters, plot progression, battle tactics, interactions, ect. unlike anything had ever seen before, but my main goal is to write an authentic LN narrative, where the readers of Light Novel could say, "Oh, the writing style is so LN-coded!" but the way I create the world and the characters are distinct (of which i'm trying on that part.)

I write Original English Light Novels (OELNs) so I read JPLNs often. And yes, there are differences between OELN and English literature writing, particularly on the heavy use of dialogues for OELN as contrast to the latter. And also, lots of telling than showing.

Any case, I fused OELN style with English style, specifically on the showing side. Not popular with English readers.

that's the truth. western writing style is completely different compared to eastern ones (JP LN authors, of course) but you can tell from this thread that I want to cater JP readers, and international readers is a given (thanks in advance, though) so yeah, I want my narrative style to be considered as "LN-coded."

so far, the western literature I read and personally liked was "Flowers for Algernon," so my reference materials on writing western lit is lacking by large margin. I've also read The Manifold trilogy but only fragmented (the only western lit that influenced my current works now, but only small)

Some Light Novels aren't that bad though. They make for easy reading when I'm out and about, and the books aren't that heavy to carry around or add to my bag.

Exactly. Light Novels are just snacks or appetizers, or act as a script for the "possible" manga or anime (if the plot is eye-catching enough.)

I know that route/possibility, that's why I am trying to do that format.

 

[TinaMigarlo]

The unskilled authors omit shit thinking it doesn't matter, and it turns out the story is weaker because they never described the the inside of a building, or the sound of traffic, or the feeling a pear has when you bite into it, or how the city works. They just wanted to hit the story beats: "Reincarnated as a $variable_noun with $variable_special_ability. Bought a cheerful compliant directionless sex slave. Now to deconstruct the genre in one particular fussy way/invent soap/use readily available spices to invent 'spiced food'."

But you should ask - how forgettable do you want your story to be? Or are you just going to get a mangaka to do the visual component?

i seem to have gotten a lot of early reviews of my excerpts (not here, different place) that made this formula you listed hit home with me, creating an eerie feeling.

i would hear, typical:

"Yeah, yeah, I get it. The character got killed. Dude, understand this. That's a sentence. Maybe a paragraph, since you do seem to like to go on and on with stuff. then another thousand characters, what it was like to die. Dude, you're killing me. Two paragraphs, and open on chapter two. Dude, you need to quit trying to act like you're the next FamousBoomerAuthor. WInnie (web-novel) readers don't care about the stuff trad-pub readers will put up with."

summing up multiple reviews, suggestions? "One sentence, and move on." (to do otherwise, they called it... fart sniffing, mental masturbation, hurr durr hurr durr)