Bottlenecks of Mystery Novels

[MakBow]

I need some advice on how to write a good mystery novel.
Since this is a new genre I'm tackling, I need to make know some of the things to keep in mind

(Context: It will be a Mystery, Drama, Fantasy, Steampunk)

 

[ElijahRyne]

I need some advice on how to write a good mystery novel.
Since this is a new genre I'm tackling, I need to make know some of the things to keep in mind

How many mysteries have you read/watched?

 

[MakBow]

How many mysteries have you read/watched?

Not much. I'm currently reading LOTM (Well, more so listening), I have watched Sherlock Homles, Get Out, Jigsaw if that counts, Nope, LongLegs, They Cloned Tyrone.

 

[ElijahRyne]

Not much. I'm currently reading LOTM, I have watched Sherlock Homles, Get Out, Jigsaw if that counts, Nope, LongLegs, They Cloned Tyrone.

Do you wish to write a murder mystery, or something else?

 

[MakBow]

Do you wish to write a murder mystery, or something else?

It will be a sort of mystery of the city itself.

For some context on the story:

It is about my MC named Sunny, who awakens with no memories of his past life and very little understanding of the world and city he lives in called Blight Town, a steampunk city-state that is encased by walls of fog as a result of the lay lines that cover the world

He strives to find his memories at all costs, which come at the prospect of him encountering Lovecraftian horrors, learning many truths, getting chased by Jack the Ripper, gaining supernatural powers, and other things.

So, it's really a story about the entire city itself and the mysterious behind it, all while the MC tries to find his own memories after his past self told him to regain them at all costs.

 

[Fox-Trot-9]

All fiction has setups and payoffs, but mysteries tend to depend on those more than most other kinds of genre fiction. To get a good feel for this genre, you need to read books from the mystery genre. A good starting point are the Sir Arthur Conan Doyle's Sherlock Holmes stories, especially The Hound of the Baskervilles. Other good public domain mysteries include Agatha Christie's The Mysterious Affair at Styles and Edgar Allan Poe's short story "The Murders in the Rue Morgue." Those three are the most famous mysteries and are a good choice to start.

It will be a sort of mystery of the city itself.

For some context on the story:

It is about my MC named Sunny, who awakens with no memories of his past life and very little understanding of the world and city he lives in called Blight Town, a steampunk city-state that is encased by walls of fog as a result of the lay lines that cover the world

He strives to find his memories at all costs, which come at the prospect of him encountering Lovecraftian horrors, learning many truths, getting chased by Jack the Ripper, gaining supernatural powers, and other things.

So, it's really a story about the entire city itself and the mysterious behind it, all while the MC tries to find his own memories after his past self told him to regain them at all costs.

Oh, wow. That's way different from what I was thinking, but you can still make it work with the superntual/Lovecraftian bent you're going for. And the Jason Bourne-like premise (finding out what your memories are/mean) is another good jumping-off point. Have you watched the Bourne trilogy (The Bourne Identity, The Bourne Supremacy, and The Bourne Ultimatum)?

 

[MakBow]

All fiction has setups and payoffs, but mysteries tend to depend on those more than most other kinds of genre fiction. To get a good feel for this genre, you need to read books from the mystery genre. A good starting point are the Sir Arthur Conan Doyle's Sherlock Holmes stories, especially The Hound of the Baskervilles. Other good public domain mysteries include Agatha Christie's The Mysterious Affair at Styles and Edgar Allan Poe's short story "The Murders in the Rue Morgue." Those three are the most famous mysteries and are a good choice to start.

Oh, wow. That's way different from what I was thinking, but you can still make it work with the superntual/Lovecraftian bent you're going for. And the Jason Bourne-like premise (finding out what your memories are/mean) is another good jumping-off point. Have you watched the Bourne trilogy (The Bourne Identity, The Bourne Supremacy, and The Bourne Ultimatum)?

Only the first one and even then, that was when I was a kid, so I vaguely remember somethings.

I did read PigPen which is a good amnesia manhwa

Do you wish to write a murder mystery, or something else?

Oh, and if you want to know my main inspirations: Bloodborne, Dark Souls, Elden Ring, LOTM, Hotel of Mythos (An abandoned idea I had revamped to the current idea)

 

[ElijahRyne]

It will be a sort of mystery of the city itself.

For some context on the story:

It is about my MC named Sunny, who awakens with no memories of his past life and very little understanding of the world and city he lives in called Blight Town, a steampunk city-state that is encased by walls of fog as a result of the lay lines that cover the world

He strives to find his memories at all costs, which come at the prospect of him encountering Lovecraftian horrors, learning many truths, getting chased by Jack the Ripper, gaining supernatural powers, and other things.

So, it's really a story about the entire city itself and the mysterious behind it, all while the MC tries to find his own memories after his past self told him to regain them at all costs.

I recommend layering mysteries like a pyramid. The peak being the city’s larger mysteries, and the bricks/steps leading to it self contained but connected mysteries. A pyramid typically also has 4 sides. One strain of mysteries may get you to the peak, but may seem fetch quest esque if too linear. Perhaps viewing the pyramid as an inward spiral may make more sense. Nonetheless don’t pants your mystery. If the city is hiding a big secret then know the secret before you play the secret game. The same holds for the smaller mysteries.

How I see it, mysteries are a game between the reader and author. Your goal is to reveal clues about the mystery while pulling the wool over the readers eyes and to simultaneously have them hooked and not knowing until you reveal the mystery. While the reader’s goal is to decipher the clues you give and distinguish them from the more misleading ones.

Only the first one and even then, that was when I was a kid, so I vaguely remember somethings.

I did read PigPen which is a good amnesia manhwa

Oh, and if you want to know my main inspirations: Bloodborne, Dark Souls, Elden Ring, LOTM, Hotel of Mythos (An abandoned idea I had revamped to the current idea)

If you are looking for mystery series to read I recommend the SciADV visual novels, for mystery thriller’s like Steins;Gate. For horror mystery I recommend the When they Cry visual novels, although you will have to mod them for best experience.

 

[MakBow]

I recommend layering mysteries like a pyramid. The peak being the city’s larger mysteries, and the bricks/steps leading to it self contained but connected mysteries. A pyramid typically also has 4 sides. One strain of mysteries may get you to the peak, but may seem fetch quest esque if too linear. Perhaps viewing the pyramid as an inward spiral may make more sense. Nonetheless don’t pants your mystery. If the city is hiding a big secret then know the secret before you play the secret game. The same holds for the smaller mysteries.

How I see it, mysteries are a game between the reader and author. Your goal is to reveal clues about the mystery while pulling the wool over the readers eyes and to simultaneously have them hooked and not knowing until you reveal the mystery. While the reader’s goal is to decipher the clues you give and distinguish them from the more misleading ones.

yeah, I certainly had that planned. I already outlined a lot of characters and their motivations. How the church is run by someone with supernatural powers, the black plague that infects the city being a result of outer beings and a giant cosmic mess, resulting in monsters roaming the streets, how Jack the Ripper has affected the identities of other people and taken lives, how the government takes hollows for experimentation and killing those with supernatural abilities, working with the church, how the library serves as a base for those with supernatural abilities to stay safe, what lies underneath the city, even deeper than the underground city from the slum rats, how the Arcanist (The people with supernatural powers) are not truly special, but miserable people that will inevitably be consumed by madness.

In short, I already outlined a LOT of characters and a few factions that serve as the drivers, with the characters being the drive of the story as their goals reveal more about the city.

I'm actually the kind of person who never does linear story telling.
I always give my MC vague goals because it allows me to branch off

 

[ElijahRyne]

yeah, I certainly had that planned. I already outlined a lot of characters and their motivations. How the church is run by someone with supernatural powers, the black plague that infects the city being a result of outer beings and a giant cosmic mess, resulting in monsters roaming the streets, how Jack the Ripper has affected the identities of other people and taken lives, how the government takes hollows for experimentation and killing those with supernatural abilities, working with the church, how the library serves as a base for those with supernatural abilities to stay safe, what lies underneath the city, even deeper than the underground city from the slum rats, how the Arcanist (The people with supernatural powers) are not truly special, but miserable people that will inevitably be consumed by madness.

In short, I already outlined a LOT of characters and a few factions that serve as the drivers, with the characters being the drive of the story as their goals reveal more about the city.

I'm actually the kind of person who never does linear story telling.
I always give my MC vague goals because it allows me to branch off

Do you have why the protagonist cares about solving these mysteries besides he wants to regain his memories, or his life depends on it? At your point you need to be creating a character and a story arc for your protagonist. Who they are not just in name, but in thought and action. If they enjoy, or despise, solving these mysteries. How these for them change as they move through their story. You don’t need to strongly outline this, but a vague roadmap would be best practice.

Remember the goal is for the mysteries to deepen, challenge, and/or change the characters in the mysteries, and the protagonist more specifically. If your protagonist couldn’t care less about the issue, then you need to really sell why they are involved. If the protagonist is deeply conflicted on an issue, force them to make and live with the choice.

I recommend starting with the core beliefs and principles of your protagonist, and how they evolve/stay the same, if you need a starting point

 

[MakBow]

Do you have why the protagonist cares about solving these mysteries besides he wants to regain his memories, or his life depends on it? At your point you need to be creating a character and a story arc for your protagonist. Who they are not just in name, but in thought and action. If they enjoy, or despise, solving these mysteries. How these for them change as they move through their story. You don’t need to strongly outline this, but a vague roadmap would be best practice.

Remember the goal is for the mysteries to deepen, challenge, and/or change the characters in the mysteries, and the protagonist more specifically. If your protagonist couldn’t care less about the issue, then you need to really sell why they are involved. If the protagonist is deeply conflicted on an issue, force them to make and live with the choice.

I recommend starting with the core beliefs and principles of your protagonist, and how they evolve/stay the same, if you need a starting point

Well, at the start, it's him being more reckless as he holds no leads. it is only after a few things that I intend to have him solve other mysteries, especially since his past is directly connected to the church itself, which is connected to a majority of the mysterious in the city, so to understand why his past self told him not to trust the church and why they are connected to his past, he has to solve the Frankenstein mystery, which is connect to the church and Jack the Ripper, who is connected to the government, who is connected to what lies underneath the city itself, so I already created a lot of interconnected storylines.

Literally the most I've every planned ever

 

[TinaMigarlo]

I know for me, my favorite "beat" to a mystery, and I'm fairly certain its about compulsory. There has to be that long "wrapping up" thing at the end. They go through everything and you get to see the stuff the investigator *didn't* clue you in on and how it mattered, logically. That big wrapping up long scene, that's where the investigator really shines, its payoff time.

a reverse trope has turned into a new trope though. When reading. If I had a nickel for every time I went... oh, the last person would be the priest. then yeah, the priest did it. I hate that. SO don't go out of your way to make the answer the least likely thing. Leave it in the middle, so they can't pick it out like that.

Surprising the reader when doing a mystery, is where they love it. Leads that look good but end up blind alleys. leave them clues, but false ones as well. peop[le that have read a lot of mysteries, get harder and harder to fool. So harder to entertain. Just like children. the older and more experienced they get the less the simplest bullshit will be bought into by them or amuse them.

 

[ElijahRyne]

Well, at the start, it's him being more reckless as he holds no leads. it is only after a few things that I intend to have him solve other mysteries, especially since his past is directly connected to the church itself, which is connected to a majority of the mysterious in the city, so to understand why his past self told him not to trust the church and why they are connected to his past, he has to solve the Frankenstein mystery, which is connect to the church and Jack the Ripper, who is connected to the government, who is connected to what lies underneath the city itself, so I already created a lot of interconnected storylines.

Literally the most I've every planned ever

Yes, but who is he? What is he afraid of? What does he enjoy? Etcetera, you know the mystery in the city. You know how your protagonist will act in the beginning, now you have to connect your protagonist to the reader. Have him turn from the clay in your hand, into the illusion of a fully fledged human. Keep in mind, you are telling these mysteries through your protagonists journey.

If you are looking for help on the question game. On how to do hints and red herrings, here are a few strategies. You know the truth, and you need to try and slow your readers from finding the truth too soon. Importantly you must leave enough info for someone with a keen eye to be able to guess or approach the truth, while not giving it away or making it too obtuse. The following strategies are not mutually exclusive, but may be hard to use in tandem. They are also more for murder mysteries, but are still quite useful for other types of mysteries.

Strategy 1: Flood of Information
You know the rules of your game, but your reader does not. Before they can catch their feet flood them with half truths, rumors, delusions, all of which point to the truth yet the info comes so disjointed, fast, and from sources of questionable reliability. When your protagonist finds information allow someone to question its authenticity, allow someone else to throw dirt on it, but also allow someone to defend it. At this point your reader will be flooded with multiple conflicting opinions. Think of the parable of the blind men and the elephant. They know they are examining an elephant but cannot properly describe it because they are too focused on the things they can touch for certain, rather than what others say. You, when giving your reader information must always lead them to doubt who gave them this information and why. However each clue must serve as a clue rather than as nonsense. The cons of this method is that you must be extremely careful, you will have to simultaneously walk the tightrope between obtuseness and simplicity, and the tightrope between compelling story and exposition dump. If a reader catches their feet flood rules of your game, you may be immediately checkmated. However this may be the best strategy if you want readers to get more out of your story on rereading.

Strategy 2: Sharp but Duel meaning/Red Herring
Here you relay few clues, but each clue if interpreted correctly can allow your reader to cut a path through your mystery like scissors on paper, but if misused will only lead them down a dead end trail. To do this you must deliberately create one or two false narratives before revealing a clue that may agree with those narratives, but ultimately actually lead to the correct narrative. This is probably harder to do in my opinion, but be more fair to the reader than the above strategy.

 

[Lmae]

Things I learned when writing my novel:

-Magic and Mystery is hard to mix, because magic breaks logic and you can end up angering your readers.
You either have to make your story a standard murder mystery with a wizard using magic to solve it. Like the Eyes' Have it or the Dresden files. https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/30833

Or make it just a Fantasy with murder in.

-You need a strong hook. Set that up within the first chapter.
You really need to make your reader care about your mystery being solved.
So, either make your character extremely likeable, such as, we care about the mystery being solved because your character is cool and fun to watch. Or you make the victim or mystery tied to the hero. In the Flaws of All Magic, the victim is the mc's old classmate and friend. Adding to the emotional appeal, the mc is asked by one of the deans who expelled him to solve the mystery.

-Don't shy away from tropes. Mystery readers want to read something familiar but with your spin on it. If you go to far off and subvert everything, you will alienate readers.

-Write a mystery that can be solved by the reader, but nothing too obvious. Drop your bread crumbs and red herrings but don't throw in contrive plot elements, like oh he was able to kill him because he placed ice cubes underneath a vase and it slowly melted and slid off the roof just in time to strike the victim while he drank is morning coffee. Some might find it clever but older readers will get annoyed.

-Make both your villain and hero competent. Make your hero solving the mystery feel earned. Don't have your clever villain make stupid mistake to help out your hero.

Someone told me to read this:

https://losbarbarosny.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/the-simple-art-of-murder.pdf

 

[Eldoria]

I need some advice on how to write a good mystery novel.
Since this is a new genre I'm tackling, I need to make know some of the things to keep in mind

(Context: It will be a Mystery, Drama, Fantasy, Steampunk)

Writing mystery fiction is one of the most difficult challenges. You need to set the vibe through atmosphere, spread neat foreshadowing from chapter 1, have a clear plot from beginning to end, control the tension, and provide the reveal (payoff) at the right moment.

For example, imagine a scene where the MC is standing alone in a living room, but the room feels strange (to the reader).

You can't rely on action and dialogue anymore... you need to build a living atmosphere, let the silence speak, let the room exude an aura of mystery, so that the reader feels there's something 'strange' about this room.

You need to perfect the "show it, don't tell it" technique to an expert level. For a beginner author... it's still too difficult.

 

[CharlesEBrown]

If you're doing a supernatural mystery, some print sources to consider:

H. P. Lovecraft's The Call of Cthulhu - while far from his best work, it uses the medium length mystery novel format to great effect (though perhaps HIS inspirations there, primarily Edgar Allen Poe I suspect, might be even better).

D'Shai and Hour of the Octopus by Joel Rosenberg (murder mysteries in a kingdom where everyone has a special skill ... except the MC, who is a poor acrobat in family of acrobats ... but then shows a skill at mystery-solving).

The Lord Darcy Investigates... series by Randall Garret.

 

[MakBow]

Writing mystery fiction is one of the most difficult challenges. You need to set the vibe through atmosphere, spread neat foreshadowing from chapter 1, have a clear plot from beginning to end, control the tension, and provide the reveal (payoff) at the right moment.

For example, imagine a scene where the MC is standing alone in a living room, but the room feels strange (to the reader).

You can't rely on action and dialogue anymore... you need to build a living atmosphere, let the silence speak, let the room exude an aura of mystery, so that the reader feels there's something 'strange' about this room.

You need to perfect the "show it, don't tell it" technique to an expert level. For a beginner author... it's still too difficult.

Well, regardless of if it's hard for me, experience is key, so I'm prepared to mess up and this will be good practice for me since I've been getting better at slowing down recently when writing, able to make slow scenes not only about action and more about characters