Writing Handling extremely sensitive subject matter in fiction... how?

[DionysusWriter]

Ideally, the chapter should include a notice stating that an uncensored version is available. Even if an external link isn't allowed within the chapter itself, the rules do allow linking to a website in your profile and referencing it without including it in a chapter; this shouldn't violate any rules.

Philosophically, I'm completely against any kind of censorship of expression, especially in art, but it's understandable that a website has certain limitations.

 

[Author_Riceball]

But how do you handle the scenes on platforms that don't approve? Or, rather, as a human it'd be something many, maybe even yourself, would hesitate on writing? You know what I mean? If not, I'll try elaborating bette

Then just don’t post on those platforms to begin with. And I am literally desensitized to everything. But like I’m not going to write CP but I will make characters that are sus as fuck

 

[L1aei]

there is an uncensored GATE?

Yes. Yes and it is brutal. Like when the siege from those bandits happened, just before the helicopters arrived to mow them down? The bandit army used and then slaughtered their captives in front of the defense line to goad them out of their fortification.

Ideally, the chapter should include a notice stating that an uncensored version is available. Even if an external link isn't allowed within the chapter itself, the rules do allow linking to a website in your profile and referencing it without including it in a chapter; this shouldn't violate any rules.

Philosophically, I'm completely against any kind of censorship of expression, especially in art, but it's understandable that a website has certain limitations.

Okay. I get what you mean now. As for it not being against the rules, I... I don't know if linking material that violates a platforms rules is okay. Honestly, that might be something Tony and such never even considered. Only they know.

Then just don’t post on those platforms to begin with. And I am literally desensitized to everything. But like I’m not going to write CP but I will make characters that are sus as fuck

Got it and glad you won't touch that sort of stuff. So you will make characters that contain that aura who'd be fine with it. I think some media does the same thing, implying that characters may have done some atrocities but they leave it up to us to imagine whatever that may be.

 

[AstreiaNyx]

Okay... so you have a character who wields a gauntlet in crimson velvet

No, she literally talked them to death ?

There is another scene where the villain tortured someone to death, but it’s more psychological than gory. When introducing a villain, it’s hard to depict them without getting your hands dirty. As long as the scene has drive and purpose, I think readers can stomach it. Unnecessary edge is what drives me away from stories.

 

[L1aei]

No, she literally talked them to death ?
Ch130


There is another scene where the villain tortured someone to death, but it’s more psychological than gory. When introducing a villain, it’s hard to depict them without getting your hands dirty. As long as the scene has drive and purpose, I think readers can stomach it. Unnecessary edge is what drives me away from stories.

Ah, okay. And cool scene. That really was interesting. Kind of like Orion's personality. Also glad to see you've got physics in there where somebody is gonna experience friction even when they can move far too humanly fast. No idea how his heart didn't explode, though.

 

[c37]

That's a good question. If you didn't glorify it, good. Are there other elements in the scene that you are concerned about that is making you question it? If so, how did you manage it? You don't have to describe it here, just link the chapter and we can see for ourselves, if you want.



Yikes!



Good. You're human.



Sort of reminds me of one manga I sort of skipped over to see how it concludes, it's where the hero is betrayed by the kingdom and she resorts to boiling each person from the inside with her gift. That was some seriously dark revenge content.



Thanks for sharing and I can totally understand why it may have failed entry.



Yeah... that's on the same page as falsifying tags in my opinion.



Dropbears? Where's my repellant!



Good. This is good. You're showing both the clinical and consequence sides of these acts. I don't believe that would be glorifying it... maybe a little on the first one, but not for the act in itself; as you said, it's more statistical for their developments in the plotline, right?

But a question: how do you keep it tasteful?

You can check it out here. I may include topics which may be darker than this.

 

[8128]

That means I'm here asking about a writing standpoint before crossing that line, not a moral panic stance. Like, when your story includes subject matter that's legally or ethically wrong in real life, how do you handle the portrayal

This is less about writing and more about authenticity, if the character/story/narrative you are trying to portray genuinely includes things that we socially consider morally reprehensible, that actually has little to no bearing on the story. Of course you make an effort to word it respectfully and there is no need (unless the context demands it) to lean even heavier into brutality for shock value. But it's just like that, yes it's brutal, yes it's shocking, yes, but it's also the truth of the world and authors should not censor themselves - if they plan to portray a character/story with all their flaws, imperfections and messed up history.
The only real constraint on artistic freedom is of course the rules of the place you post on, and who you want to read your story, that's all really

edit: To clarify, with "actually has little to no bearing on the story" I meant that art in general, should not be held to the same standards as what we consider moral/ethical. I think it's a responsibility of the author to not make it performative, as in, using terrible things that do happen and are very much real to add edge/thrill/shock, and exploit things and minimize consequence. But centering on the narrative, how these things shape how the work is seen and interacted with, adding weight to it

 

[L1aei]

This is less about writing and more about authenticity, if the character/story/narrative you are trying to portray genuinely includes things that we socially consider morally reprehensible, that actually has little to no bearing on the story. Of course you make an effort to word it respectfully and there is no need (unless the context demands it) to lean even heavier into brutality for shock value. But it's just like that, yes it's brutal, yes it's shocking, yes, but it's also the truth of the world and authors should not censor themselves - if they plan to portray a character/story with all their flaws, imperfections and messed up history.
The only real constraint on artistic freedom is of course the rules of the place you post on, and who you want to read your story, that's all really

So, respectfully, you'd manage it by leaving out the explicit details. That means you'd take it in an abstract view, like what @AstreiaNyx had done by using gestures interacting with the environment or objects, like the thumb smearing red across a smartphone's screen, as a means to imply what happened, right? Or some other method?

 

[Racosharko]

The Plague

Just to say... The Plague, the 1947 absurdist novel by Albert Camus is a great novel.

 

[L1aei]

Just to say... The Plague, the 1947 absurdist novel by Albert Camus is a great novel.

Never read it, but might someday. That's the one about an occupation, right?

 

[Racosharko]

That's the one about an occupation, right?

No, there is literary a plague, and how stupid people are during it..

 

[L1aei]

No, there is literary a plague, and how stupid people are during it..

I'll check it out.

 

[8128]

So, respectfully, you'd manage it by leaving out the explicit details. That means you'd take it in an abstract view, like what @AstreiaNyx had done by using gestures interacting with the environment or objects, like the thumb smearing red across a smartphone's screen, as a means to imply what happened, right? Or some other method?

I wouldnt censor dark material, just because it's dark, but I would consider if what you are trying to portray there (in that scene) serves the overall narrative, or not. So if that character needs that scene to be explicit to ground it in reality, or if that's not actually necessary and everything was already said (then that scene being overly explicit wouldn't add much other than shock value) It's a hard question to answer, because it is so contextual and depends on so many different things. For me, it's mostly how much depth that part of the character/story already has, and how much is still necessary to flesh it out further.
Also if you don't want to deal with all that, I don't see a problem with fading to black and keeping it abstract, leaving it to the reader's fantasy, sometimes that can hit even harder than being explicit. Just some thoughts.

 

[L1aei]

I wouldnt censor dark material, just because it's dark, but I would consider if what you are trying to portray there (in that scene) serves the overall narrative, or not. So if that character needs that scene to be explicit to ground it in reality, or if that's not actually necessary and everything was already said (then that scene being overly explicit wouldn't add much other than shock value) It's a hard question to answer, because it is so contextual and depends on so many different things, for me mostly on how much depth does that part of the character/story already have and how much is still necessary to flesh it out further. Also if you don't want to deal with all that and would rather play it safe, I don't see a problem with fading to black and keeping it abstract, leaving it to the reader's fantasy, sometimes that can hit even harder than being explicit. Just some thoughts.

And it is a good thought to mull over. I like it.

 

[8128]

And it is a good thought to mull over. I like it.

Also another thing you mentioned was,

Basically, how do you keep it from sliding into this feeling of exploitative territory while still being honest about the world or character you're writing?

I wanted to mention how I see that as well, having that in mind while writing is 90% of the work. Like I said before there is no "recipe", depends what you're trying to convey. Might feel like you're dancing on the knife edge in a narrative when it comes to dark topics. My experience with writing darker topics is mostly from my journal, where I did lean a bit more into writing that, just because I had less experience with it. Then you can tighten it and focus on the parts that you want to highlight later on. I see growing comfortable in writing as deepening my sense of responsibility on that area. Refining a craft for me meant recognizing that as a writer I have a responsibility to uphold, to not trivialize things and take away agency, power and weight from real experiences

 

[L1aei]

Also another thing you mentioned was,

I wanted to mention how I see that as well, having that in mind while writing is 90% of the work. Like I said before there is no "recipe", depends what you're trying to convey. Might feel like you're dancing on the knife edge in a narrative when it comes to dark topics. My experience with writing darker topics is mostly from my journal, where I did lean a bit more into writing that, just because I had less experience with it. Then you can tighten it and focus on the parts that you want to highlight later on. I see growing comfortable in writing as deepening my sense of responsibility on that area. Refining a craft for me meant recognizing that as a writer I have a responsibility to uphold, to not trivialize things and take away agency, power and weight from real experiences

That's a pretty grounded approach. You got my support. I'm happy to hear you are aware of the consequences of those experiences and they're conveyed through your writing by that Occam's principle; keeping it simple that doing this results in that formula. Keep it up!

Ideally, the chapter should include a notice stating that an uncensored version is available. Even if an external link isn't allowed within the chapter itself, the rules do allow linking to a website in your profile and referencing it without including it in a chapter; this shouldn't violate any rules.

Discovered this on this forum's rules.

But then I came across the main site's rules, and I feel like they are conflicting with each other. Am I misreading something here?

 

[Corty]

But a question: how do you keep it tasteful?

You don't.

Because you can't. What we are talking about here are objectively evil descriptions of what humans can do. You don't make it tasteful, because that's right next to glorifying it. You describe it, you don't, you mention it, allude to it, it doesn't matter. Just don't try to make it anything else, give it raw, in my opinion.

You can't make something awful, tasteful. It is what it is, and if it is bad but you still decided to include it, then just do it. Mandering about it just makes it bad.

I had a character who grew up as a prostitute, and her whole arc was dealing with it, because it made her into a freak murderer and bandit leader. Every reader at first wanted her gone from the story when the MC recruited her, and by the end, she was usually one of the favorites amongst those who stuck with the story.

And when describing her past, she didn't shy away from it, telling it as it was, just as it was in Kill Bill. It is what it is.

 

[L1aei]

You don't.

Because you can't. What we are talking about here are objectively evil descriptions of what humans can do. You don't make it tasteful, because that's right next to glorifying it. You describe it, you don't, you mention it, allude to it, it doesn't matter. Just don't try to make it anything else, give it raw, in my opinion.

You can't make something awful, tasteful. It is what it is, and if it is bad but you still decided to include it, then just do it. Mandering about it just makes it bad.

I had a character who grew up as a prostitute, and her whole arc was dealing with it, because it made her into a freak murderer and bandit leader. Every reader at first wanted her gone from the story when the MC recruited her, and by the end, she was usually one of the favorites amongst those who stuck with the story.

And when describing her past, she didn't shy away from it, telling it as it was, just as it was in Kill Bill. It is what it is.

That's a good analogy to compare it to; I know what you're talking about in Kill Bill. That's a fair plot device to insert as a backstory and the scenes, the point of the thread, make it dialogue rather than revisiting the memory via flashback scenes. I like it.

 

[JayMark]

The horrors of human reality far outweigh anything writers are reasonably able to depict.
The wonders of the human experience far outweigh anything writers are reasonably able to portray.
Fiction broadens persepective while softening the journey.
Unless you choose to believe lies, words can't hurt you.

Moo.

 

[L1aei]

The horrors of human reality far outweigh anything writers are reasonably able to depict.
The wonders of the human experience far outweigh anything writers are reasonably able to portray.
Fiction broadens persepective while softening the journey.
Unless you choose to believe lies, words can't hurt you.

Moo.

Exactly why AI will never be capable of replacing writers; they can't comprehend experience.