Why Isekai?

CinnaSloth

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It's so the reader can imagine themselves in the same situation. OR, so that you can mix things up by bringing modern knowledge/morals/whatever to a typical fantasy. The second one is so cliche that it's barely a functional trope at this point though, so mostly the first one.

Sometimes it's just used without thinking (ie cliche), or as a convenient excuse for why the MC is different from other characters in the setting- though that's basically just an extension of the above so...

Oh right, I mentioned this recently: Pioneer fantasy. You get to explore more stuff if you get isekai'd.
As much as I like this reply, I do think it's a nonsense answer, no disrespect to you, or the thought process.
Take Mulan for instance, the animation, not the god awful live action, where females are meant to shut up in their era, and simply be the mother figure in the back ground, serving their husband, or taking care of the family. Mulan had a different mindset, and different way of thinking without having to die, and without having to be sent into a new world, (although one could say jumping into the world of man, The Chinese Army, would be similarity of a new world..) Like I said, you can start a character with any mindset, or a different personality than any other character. Dropping that entire reason on, "Because they're from modern era earth" is lazy writing.
Sorry to say, you didn't change my mind.
Killing the character in the original world before bringing them to the other world is a sad JP thing. Because suicide is a thing and folks want to be away from the place (OG world) that caused them such grievance.

Also, death in OG world forces closure as the characters are less likely to go "oh, I should go back to my OG world" because already being dead.

And yes, Japanese do have this culture to just uproot and leave, known as jōhatsu or evaporated people.

As to why start with such people, because reader association. This is to help readers and authors themselves to easily self insert into the work. For those who seek such fantasy at least.

@Cipiteca396 already wrote what I had struck through,
This is a great answer, which I personally relate to, having had my own issues on the topic. But it doesn't explain why it would be needed in cases of being murdered, or because of an accident. Not every Isekai starts off with a suicide. It's the necessary death in order to go into the new world that I think is dumb, not the new start within the story. Moving away, or leaving home to advenure somewhere new, can also give that sense of relief. Why death in particular?
You don't need to, but ways to get from 'real world' to 'isekai world' are limited for living people, most of the time its just going to be a summoning circle for regular transmigration and death for being put in another body.
But why have the "Real world to Isekai world" to begin with, why not START in the new fantasy world?
Isekai is indeed designed as a wish-fulfillment fantasy. This genre was born from the Japanese hikomorri culture, where many people isolate themselves socially due to the pressures of life. Why is the MC killed only to be sent to another world with a cheat? The short answer is because it's the fantasy of (Japanese) authors who want to escape their hard lives and go to another world to fulfill their desires. So it's no surprise that the worldbuilding of isekai is designed to be subservient to the MC. The stories are light, easy, and enjoyable. They even forget the logic of cultural reality, especially foreign languages. In essence, isekai MC = author (or readers) fantasy.
But why not start there, instead of romanticizing suicide? Are they advocating for suicide? Why not dissociate by living through the character beginning with the new fresh area which the entire story settles into after death?
Er, because you don't need to? I know it's depressingly common but far from all isekai kill their main characters.

One better question, which you touch on would be, why move a character between worlds to begin with? There are several reasons. Plain old escapism, reader substitute but, on a more constructive note, culture substitute. Drop someone from 'here' and you have someone who acts and reacts like someone from here (preferably).

We take a lot of sensibilities for granted. That's why we have all the 1980s and 1990s fantasy with farmer boys in a dirty world who never even heard the word 'education' before the story starts leave the village and behave like your average white male bachelor level academic from the get go. So, I guess, that's one point.

If you want to write a 'use modern knowledge to change the new world' then it's kinda hard doing it with a native.

The second better question would be why write a power fantasy at all? Because virtually every isekai (and a lot more sub-genres) are power fantasies. Because it's fun to read I guess.

Yes, which is why we pick up a book or read to begin with, for the escape, for the entertainment, to live in a new fantasy for a few minutes whether we hate our live or not. Why do we need the death at the beginning, when you're literally telling a great story immediately after, why not just start with the story? The point that makes an isekai an isekai is THE isekai. The dumb part. You're already telling a story; Skip the prologue of death, and it's still a story. Why not start there?
 

foxes

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Why Isekai?​

It's just a trend. Even if your story continues to feature a dull and boring character, a change of setting changes the way you view them. A well-crafted post-apocalypse or alien abduction can replace it. But the lack of a familiar label will undermine fans' expectations.
I recently read a parable that essentially preaches a trade relationship with God, rather than love. However, the person who wrote or distributed it views it as a teachable story within their "love" for God. Alternatively, they may not recognize the absurdity because it is a beautiful parable. Many people agree with this perspective. I believe the same applies here.
 
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CinnaSloth

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It's escapism. As Cipi already said, reader can imagine themselves in a new world. A lot of people imagine themselves changing from a boring person to someone amazing over night.
Reading any book is escapism, or dissociation, or feeling a sense of freedom. But that's also the story part.
Why is the death necessary?
 

Eldoria

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But why not start there, instead of romanticizing suicide? Are they advocating for suicide? Why not dissociate by living through the character beginning with the new fresh area which the entire story settles into after death?
Your opinion can actually be an inherent criticism. Even stories considered symbols of wish fulfillment can't escape harsh reality. They try to tell a happy story, but the background is very dark (romanticizing suicide is insane). Truck-Kun parody isn't just nonsense.
 
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CinnaSloth

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In my opinion, The point is that many "fantasy" powers and abilities make more sense and more 'plausible' in Isekai world than in our "modern world".

In my opinion, Many people have the opinion that "magic" and "Fantasy Creatures" make more sense in "Fantasy world" than our "Urban fantasy".

That is one of the point.

More of my opinion :
No you won't.

Many writers have been expressing these opinions over the years, it's practically the common popular opinion nowadays.


I dont think I can yet.
In my opinion, My opinions may actually reinforce your opinion.

The whole genre were kickstarted with Mushoku Tensei webnovel, which features a dead end 40yo fat NEET with zero future, after getting kicked out of his home, then sacrificing himself to save somone from being hit by truck, before getting himself killed and reincarnated into a baby in "magical land", giving him a second chance for showing bravery of selfless sacrifice.

That's why the webnovel trend follows sending people and "isekai" them there.

Of course, many following Isekai work become "better" or "worse".

For example,

My first foray into Isekai genre was Re:Zero and Konosuba back in 2016-2017. It was practically the deconstruction and parody of said genre, except that I never see the Isekai work themselves.

Then after finishing both matserpieces, I watched my first isekai slop: "In another world with my smartphone". It was horrible experience, especially after watching Rezero and Konosuba. I can't stand more than 1 episode.

In Rezero, thugs of magical world can easily kill modern people, and Subaru was "athletic" 180cm/5' 10" student. He's a Jock genius NEET. Subaru's life is "suffering".

In Konosuba, even if Kazuma not "suffering" that much in comparison to Subaru, because he didn't try to fight people above his weight, he's still having a very rough life and horrible experience, while living way worse than average modern laborer.

Meanwhile "In another world with my smartphone", it was absolute cringe story. People in Isekai DO NOT act that way! The MC outfit is being bought by Noble on the street ? Kazuma's and Subaru's outfit are just considered "strange", not "special" nor "expensive".

He can just save ladies from thugs, even tho he's just a damn guy with a smartphone ? How? Why?

Then I watch many isekai, altough they have easier life than Rezero or Konosuba, they make sense because the protagonist is powerful. Magical things make sense if you can brute force them with plain old magical firepower and skill.

Death march to another world rhapsody was the other slop, but it make more sense than isekai smartphone. Yes the protag is not morally the best according to western moral standard. But IT MAKE SENSE. He has the POWER to steamroll his enemies. The people close to him are basically sheltering under him.

Not like Isekai Smartphone where people just suddenly be kind to Protagonist for no reason, even tho the world is the "Might Makes Right".

Tensei slime was one of the good ones in 2018. Yes he's OP as hell. But the progression make sense as he's OP.

Then Goblin Slayer, where non isekai realistic native protag in isekai world, which turns out to be basically DnD world afterall.

He's weak in comparison to many strong protagonist, but he's methodical and effective. He even acknowledge that he's no hero, he can't fight hundreds of enemies in open field, and has to ask for help.

Isekai is basically a powerfantasy in a world where power fantasy are not just possible, not just plausible, but common as well.

Of course, the irony is that you have to be born or sent into the right place and time with right opportunity as well, just so you can live a worse society than modern world with all the ancient inconveniences and ancient suffering, just for a chance to get the "magic powahh".

As much as I enjoyed reading, I don't think you answered my question in any of it. BUT you did bring up one good detail I don't even think you realized. In another world with my smartphone, as dumb and as cringy as it is, wouldn't make sense (if it made any sense at all) if they didn't isekai. The smartphone literally being a thing from the other world. but Deathnote did the exact same thing, except better.. in its own way. Deathnote not of this realm dropped and Light learned to use it. could have been the same thing. Smartphone is found in a stupid cookie jar, and user learns to use it. No isekai death needed, or however that anime started.
skip that, you are left with regular fantasy (which I personally prefer most of the time, but it misses the point of isekai).

Exactly my point. Isekai are dumb. NOT the story part. JUST the Isekai part. Isekai isn't a real genre. It steals genres pretending to be one just cause we added a death at the beginning that serves practically nothing to the rest of the story.
I use isekai. I didn't kill my character off, actually really don't like that. The idea of them dying in general. I don't think anyone should die to be able to live a better life. Just my opinion. lmao

Transported mine to another world for a simple reason. It's just symbolism about escaping to another world when shit in life sucks ass. In my case, I chronically daydream due to stress/anxiety. So, my character gets to experience a cool, fictional world that uses most of the genres I like reading about myself.

We love escapism in this household. :blob_aww:

Opening the book should be the escapism in my opinion.
Thank you for not murdering your character just to have them find peace somewhere else, but WHY did you have them move, instead of just starting there? Why the whole setup of "we start here, everything sucks.." okay moving on to what really matters!!! "ENTER THE STORY! WOO PARTY!!" Don't you think people would rather skip the boring nonsense instead needlessly dragging themselves along the boring part in order to get to the GOOD part? Wouldn't it be increased engagement if "wow my life sucks already, let me open a book and immediately feeling better!!" instead of.. "dang this is depressing, why the heck did i pick this up again??"
Good Isekai is good.
I liked Isekai before Isekai was cool and will continue to like the good ones well after it fades in popularity.
You know what makes Isekai bad.
The same thing that ruins everything.
Normies making it 'relevant'.

sorry. Modern world uses internet. Everything is now connected whether you like it or not. "Normies" will eventually touch everything. I'd say get used to it cause that's reality. You can always go offgrid, and isolate. :blob_cookie:
Isekai give you freedom of imagination too. You can literally do anything with isekai unlike when simply writing a story about someone.

As for me I still prefer isekai who grew stronger normaly and not sudenly become the most op character in their story that will make the story boring later on.


The system of the isekai should have alot of restriction earlier, just giving the MC enough to survive as backup untill he fully realise his potential.

Also copying ability should be limited.

Or you endup with an MC who pocess so many ability he barely use any of them.

Its better if the MC pocess 1 ability in each discipline and their cartegory and for the rest author could just work on his aura Or energy control untill he break all limit and change between discipline when facing powerfull foe to make him super strong.

Coupled with his prior knowledge of that world and vast experience in his former life the transmigrant would be basically invincible.

Im currently writing one isekai in case anyone is interested.
Writing in general gives you freedom of imagination.. It's writing. everything you said can be done in any story, not specifically Isekai.
Unfortunately, this mostly wasn't the case for most authors. The whole pioneer stuff is quickly getting overshadowed by the usual suspect which is POWER FANTASY! So yeah, good luck finding anything in Scribble Hub that fully contains exploring without flaunting their bloated stats
Anyways, making a second comment because I was slow af:

Isekai can be good if you really like to challenge the concept itself, like what are you going to do with this character, how the world will treat the character, and many many many more questions you had to ask yourself.
You're talking about writing in general. Not isekai.
"(Add Genre Here) can be good if you really like to challenge the concept itself, like what are you going to do with this character, how the world will treat the character-"

Stats would be a LitRPG thing.
I shall write one where the hero gains his powers from being bitten by a radioactive gamma ray-stricken black cat that escaped his exploding planet after criminals shot his mom... instead of dying. Mild-mannered bumbling accountant by day, anime hero at night!

Checkmate, guys! I have an original story idea now!

Pls do not steal.

No death, and going planet wide with superpowers. That's Scifi fantasy. Not Isekai. lol But I like yer moxy, kid.
more imaginative freedom with less effort.

So.. because you're lazy as a writer? That's not a good reason. If you want to write fantasy, just write fantasy. You don't need a reason to write. just do it. My question is... WHY the Isekai? everything you just said can be written in to a character. if they don't have a certain personality is because you written them that way. I don't think blaming the genre substitutes for bad imagination. If you want something, write it in? WHY the transfer from one "realm" to another?
 
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CinnaSloth

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It's just a trend. Even if your story continues to feature a dull and boring character, a change of setting changes the way you view them. A well-crafted post-apocalypse or alien abduction can replace it. But the lack of a familiar label will undermine fans' expectations.
I recently read a parable that essentially preaches a trade relationship with God, rather than love. However, the person who wrote or distributed it views it as a teachable story within their "love" for God. Alternatively, they may not recognize the absurdity because it is a beautiful parable. Many people agree with this perspective. I believe the same applies here.
Changing the way I see a character depends on the writing of the author and how they want to represent the character.
The area or realm or whatever location the author designates them to doesn't matter to how they want to write them.
It could be the greatest of scenery to have ever existed, or the worst most basic of flatlands. A character can still have a bad or good personality and be written any other way.

My question is why Isekai?
There's no need to change your mind, disliking a genre is normal, it isn't made for you, you're not the target audience.

Oh, no. I don't dislike it. I actually like Isekai stories. The stories aren't the issue. It's the beginning death scene that i think is absolutely pointless, and serves nothing.
 

PancakesWitch

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Changing the way I see a character depends on the writing of the author and how they want to represent the character.
The area or realm or whatever location the author designates them to doesn't matter to how they want to write them.
It could be the greatest of scenery to have ever existed, or the worst most basic of flatlands. A character can still have a bad or good personality and be written any other way.

My question is why Isekai?


Oh, no. I don't dislike it. I actually like Isekai stories. The stories aren't the issue. It's the beginning death scene that i think is absolutely pointless, and serves nothing.
Well there are a lot where they dont die so I dont see what's the problem.
The death simply serves as an ending to their previous life so they go to the new life, sometimes they start as newborn which I think its the major reason why they're shown dying.
I think one aspect of Isekai like this is that they have a frustrating life where they were unable to acomplish the things they wished, so they die bitterly while giving the reader some empathy, and when they're given a second chance they will not waste it... or so it goes like that, but it can go in many directions I suppose. It always depends how flawed the author wants to make their main characters.
 

CinnaSloth

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Your opinion can actually be an inherent criticism. Even stories considered symbols of wish fulfillment can't escape harsh reality. They try to tell a happy story, but the background is very dark (romanticizing suicide is insane). Truck-Kun parody isn't just nonsense.

Yes. This is entirely my opinion.
I enjoy the story elements of the stories written whether the story is light hearted or depressingly dark. The story as a whole isn't an issue.
My issue is with the beginning of the story that I find unnecessary. The part where X character needs to be transported, killed, committed sudoku, or has a tragic accident --> in order to go into the new fantastic world.
Why not just start with the new world? Why the dragged out prologue? Why does X character NEED to die/ be transferred for the story to start?
 

Arkus86

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I shall write one where the hero gains his powers from being bitten by a radioactive gamma ray-stricken black cat that escaped his exploding planet after criminals shot his mom... instead of dying. Mild-mannered bumbling accountant by day, anime hero at night!

Checkmate, guys! I have an original story idea now!

Pls do not steal.
He's an unremarkable accountant by day, but by night, he becomes... Magical Catgirl! Because everyone knows you get the features of whatever bit you when you gain superpowers.

Spiderman is spider man. Batman is bat man. Steve has rabies.
 

foxes

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The area or realm or whatever location the author designates them to doesn't matter to how they want to write them.
Changing the environment is not only about the landscape, although the hero can look at it in different ways. It's also about situations that don't happen in everyday life. The same way the hero's attitude towards the kingdom or communism can reveal his character. This is always a potential that will not be present in a normal situation. A lazy, useless hero who won't leave his house until a catastrophe or death occurs. That's the mentality.
My question is why Isekai?
My answer: Because. Enjoy it.
 

CinnaSloth

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Well there are a lot where they dont die so I dont see what's the problem.
The death simply serves as an ending to their previous life so they go to the new life, sometimes they start as newborn which I think its the major reason why they're shown dying.
I think one aspect of Isekai like this is that they have a frustrating life where they were unable to acomplish the things they wished, so they die bitterly while giving the reader some empathy, and when they're given a second chance they will not waste it... or so it goes like that, but it can go in many directions I suppose. It always depends how flawed the author wants to make their main characters.

Understanding, but hear me out, it is a wild stretch, i know.. but.. starting with -as a newborn.. might in itself symbolize "a new birth".
Moving.. might be considered a new birth. Running away.. might start off as a new birth. OPENING a book you haven't read yet... might come off as a new birth.

Why is reading the transfer from one imaginary place to another so important?
I know I'm being sarcastic, and rude. Which I apologize, I don't mean to come off as a complete b****.

but the whole thing COULD actually start at the beginning of the story.

If you want to get into semantics, Guardians of the Galaxy is an Isekai. Starlord literally gets transported to "another world", and grows up there. Granted it's still Earth's universe. but that's exactly what I mean. Isekai is just a blatant disregard of imagination. ANYTHING can exist anywhere. King Kong? Earth. Godzilla? Earth. MARVEL itself EARTH. superpowers and all. It doesn't need to be focused in New York city or Manhattan Island. Guardians of the Galaxy literally has its own planets!!!

WHY IS DEATH NECESSARY???
My answer: Because. Enjoy it.

Respectable answer. I do too. But I still think Isekai as a Genre is dumb.

The only thing that separates it from literally any other genre is "My character died in the beginning, so it's special, and needs a genre of its own."
No.. It is a fantasy. or mystery, or scifi, horror, hystorical fiction. drama, romance, thriller, smut!!! I don't care what anyone says. the only difference is that there's a pointless death at "GO".
 
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PancakesWitch

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Understanding, but hear me out, it is a wild stretch, i know.. but.. starting with -as a newborn.. might in itself symbolize "a new birth".
Moving.. might be considered a new birth. Running away.. might start off as a new birth. OPENING a book you haven't read yet... might come off as a new birth.

Why is reading the transfer from one imaginary place to another so important?
I know I'm being sarcastic, and rude. Which I apologize, I don't mean to come off as a complete b****.

but the whole thing COULD actually start at the beginning of the story.

If you want to get into semantics, Guardians of the Galaxy is an Isekai. Starlord literally gets transported to "another world", and grows up there. Granted it's still Earth's universe. but that's exactly what I mean. Isekai is just a blatant disregard of imagination. ANYTHING can exist anywhere. King Kong? Earth. Godzilla? Earth. MARVEL itself EARTH. superpowers and all. It doesn't need to be focused in New York city or Manhattan Island. Guardians of the Galaxy literally has its own planets!!!

WHY IS DEATH NECESSARY???


Respectable answer. I do too. But I still think Isekai as a Genre is dumb.

The only thing that separates it from literally any other genre is "My character died in the beginning, so it's special, and needs a genre of its own."
No.. It is a fantasy. or mystery, or scifi, horror, hystorical fiction. drama, romance, thriller, smut!!! I don't care what anyone says. the only difference is that there's a pointless death at "GO".
I dont really understand what you're trying to say, I already explained to you why death happens.
Is it important? No.
 

CinnaSloth

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Is it important? No.

This! This is my point. "Is it important? No."

NOT FOR THE STORY!!!! Isekai because it is an Isekai, is Bad. The prologue in-and-of-itself is bad. SKIP it.
No death. no transfer. no mentioning the irl world beforehand. Take the story where the story STARTS in "the new world", and just HAVE it. Have the story. No isekai needed, and it's still a story.

The word Isekai as a Genre is dumb, and pointless.
 

vexedhexed

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I have read and seen a few but the genre does seem a bit overloaded lately. I don't think that isekai has been explored enough because a lot of it feels the same without exploring new possibilities to keep the genre fresh. I can see the appeal in dying and coming back with all my memories in to a world I can shoot fireballs and rule a kingdom! I was also an early fan for Solo Leveling when the chapters started released on webtton.

Could be fun to have someone transported in to a survival horror or game that is less about power scaling and more about dialogue choices.
 

foxes

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The only thing that separates it from literally any other genre is...

 

CinnaSloth

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I have read and seen a few but the genre does seem a bit overloaded lately. I don't think that isekai has been explored enough because a lot of it feels the same without exploring new possibilities to keep the genre fresh. I can see the appeal in dying and coming back with all my memories in to a world I can shoot fireballs and rule a kingdom! I was also an early fan for Solo Leveling when the chapters started released on webtton.

Could be fun to have someone transported in to a survival horror or game that is less about power scaling and more about dialogue choices.

I don't really mind if it's overloading the shelves, or whether they write it as a fantasy or make it into a fanfic.
The writing is all fine.
But why the isekai instead of writing just as a fantasy, or a fanfic?

My random oc is in raccoon city etc etc etc story (this is a fanfic)
vs
my random oc dies and is transported to racoon city etc etc etc story (this is an isekai) ...um sorry. No, that's a fanfic just with extra steps..

Why??

Isekai is dumb. NOT BECAUSE OF THE STORIES THEY TELL. but because of the "dies and gets transported", or "fell into a void" or "was kidnapped by aliens and thrown onto a alien homeworld".. okay maybe not that last one, but WHY? WHY the extra steps? you want to tell a fanfic GO for it.. you want to write a fantasy about fireballs and stat levels GO for it.. WHY THE ISEKAI??? it's pointless.

my sentiments exactly.
 

Alski

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He's an unremarkable accountant by day, but by night, he becomes... Magical Catgirl! Because everyone knows you get the features of whatever bit you when you gain superpowers.

Spiderman is spider man. Batman is bat man. Steve has rabies.
Steve didnt gain any superpowers, he got dead.
 

Leti

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The word Isekai as a Genre is dumb and pointless because it's just Japanese Popadantsy/Accidental Travel. The Russians did it first. See Ivan Vasilievich Changes His Profession. They are all sub-genres of Portal Fantasy. It's just how the genre works. Dumb, but fun.
 

CinnaSloth

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Steve didnt gain any superpowers, he got dead.
xD ...a-are you high? lol
I think you need a nap.
The word Isekai as a Genre is dumb and pointless because it's just Japanese Popadantsy/Accidental Travel. The Russians did it first. See Ivan Vasilievich Changes His Profession. They are all sub-genres of Portal Fantasy. It's just how the genre works. Dumb, but fun.
But why go through the extra steps? Why not just write what you want to write?
What does the explanation of "My character died to get here" serve?
A story is still a story any which way you tell it. Why the addition, pointless blurb of death?
 
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