getting away from the "not possible" mindset in fantasy(as a writer)

FieryLou

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I’ve got a big problem. I’m having a hard time creating a proper power system because my dumbass brain always wants an explanation for everything. It’s so strange, since I’ve devoured countless fantasy books (even xianxia) and never cared about logic or the mechanics behind them, but when it comes to creating my own? No chance…


For example, elemental magic. When I’m reading, I’m fine with: He cast a spell; bam, a fireball appears. But now, it’s different. I keep thinking, How can he create magic? How does it fit into the world? Where does the fire hails from. How does it come to life...

In short, I am thinking far too deep. Mystery is my enemy.

I think its because I cling too much to logic. And magic has its own logic, and is not bound to reality.


Any tips on how to “fix” that? Or is fantasy just not my genre? Maybe I should try soft magic systems instead…
 

PancakesWitch

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its fine creating logical explanations to everything, the thing is that you dont have to overload the chapters and narration with the explanations, write all your explanations in a separate text and then use it as reference while you slowly unravel how everything works
 

ConansWitchBaby

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Had the same problem and what got me through was this:

Witches/pagans are dumbasses who are also opportunistic. I don't remember where I first saw it but, the first building block of "true" magic (it'll trickle down to fantasy magic bear with me) is outright believing in something. In the example I found was a plant being used for poison and an influence as a malady "binder" for spells. Turned out that in another part of the country it was used to help out with delivering pregnancies.

Cue the "magic also evolves", "an expansion of the previous uses was found/done", a "I'm desperately trying to keep relevance, and this goes against the tradition and history of this said object, so I have to accept it or else".

A.k.a. Go with feels and stop overthinking it. If it pops up in your head and feels right, stick with it. Move on. Be happy.
 

TASTYLEADPAINT

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Its okay to have an explanation too how magic works in your story. But be carefull how you reveal that information. Don't just lore dump the whole thing in a 5k word chapter. Because I guarantee people will check out half way through. Do it in digestible bits. Or have it as bonus content that people can read if they are curious. The best part of fantasy as that magic being a thing is expected. You can never explain how magic works and most people wont care...
 

Jerynboe

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Brandon Sanderson, one of the most successful writers in the game today, has literally hired physicists to help him flesh out how his magic systems work.
Like most things in writing, it’s fine and sometimes even awesome to do. It’s about execution.
 

PancakesWitch

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Brandon Sanderson, one of the most successful writers in the game today, has literally hired physicists to help him flesh out how his magic systems work.
Like most things in writing, it’s fine and sometimes even awesome to do. It’s about execution.
I have never heard of that loser, but imagine hiring people to help you flesh out your world, pathetic
 

foxoftheasterisk

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When explaining how magic works—not what it does, but how it does it—you should be aiming for this reaction:
1000003745.png


(I mean, you don't have to, but it's a good guideline.)

Example: you create a fireball by opening a portal to the plane of fire.
Which raises more questions: "How is there a plane of fire? What is it burning? Where does the energy come from?"
 

akif313

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Magic only needs consistency, not physics. As long as your rules stay the same, readers won’t care where the fireball came from.
 

GlassRose

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I’ve got a big problem. I’m having a hard time creating a proper power system because my dumbass brain always wants an explanation for everything. It’s so strange, since I’ve devoured countless fantasy books (even xianxia) and never cared about logic or the mechanics behind them, but when it comes to creating my own? No chance…


For example, elemental magic. When I’m reading, I’m fine with: He cast a spell; bam, a fireball appears. But now, it’s different. I keep thinking, How can he create magic? How does it fit into the world? Where does the fire hails from. How does it come to life...

In short, I am thinking far too deep. Mystery is my enemy.

I think its because I cling too much to logic. And magic has its own logic, and is not bound to reality.


Any tips on how to “fix” that? Or is fantasy just not my genre? Maybe I should try soft magic systems instead…
I don't know if that's really a problem, that's just the precursor to a lot of time world building the mechanics behind the magic system. It's essentially how I built mine. I took the ideas I wanted, and then figured out how to make it make sense.

Using the example of elemental magic. Where does the fuel for the power come from? Why can people control it? The soul extracts mana from the Void, and in doing so imprints upon it traces of said soul, which allows said soul to manipulate the mana. Mana is a metaphysical substance and energy (similar to how light is both a wave and a particle) that can transmute into the various elements based on the soul's affinities. What is the soul and why can it do these things? Souls are constructs of a special substance called Pneuma, they store imprints of memories, thought patterns, and conceptual identity, and they stem from the soul's core, which is a seed that's a fragment of the Primordial, which is an omnipotent being that arose from the Chaos, which is everything, all potential, and created the multiverse. That Primordial Seed is what lets the soul channel the various mystical energies that can transform, create, and destroy, that which is part of reality. Why do the specific elements exist as they are and not as other things? The elements are conceptual, they exist as the way in which sentient beings understand and categorize observed reality, creating distinct categories of concepts that resonate together, and the reason the ideas and beliefs of sentient beings has an effect on reality ties back to the fact that they have fragments of the Primordial in their soul that have sprouted due to their sentience, thus causing their beliefs to have an influence on the fabric of reality.

tldr, in my setting people can use magic because their souls are the sprouted seeds of the fragments of the creator of existence and that gives them the ability to manipulate a natural source of mystical energy.
 

JayMark

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I don't have this problem yet, but I will once we conclusively solve every mystery of how things work in our own universe.
 

Placeholder

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> Maybe I should try soft magic systems instead…

Quickly read Barbara Hambly's Silent Tower series!
 

Daitengu

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You can make your explanation, just don't tell the reader. Use it as a reference instead. Some authors like Frank Herbert has so much background info and general story direction notes, that his family was able to put out several novels to finish out the Dune series.
 

CinnaSloth

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It seems the consensus is essentially: Don't explain a damn thing, magic is magical, or if you want to explain, keep it relatively short.
Personally, I think magic is complicated. Explain too much and the "Magic" portion of magic become science. Do you want a science system, or a magic system?

TL;DR
There are books that go deep into the magic systems explaining almost all things, but not everything. There's a fanbase for that.
-And there are books that don't explain anything at all, allowing readers to theorize. There's also a fanbase for that.
For publishing, I'd recommend the first.
For scribblehub, I'd recommend the second.
But For honesty, taking what you do naturally, and delving into that, is the best course of action. If you're a world builder, build a world. There will be a fanbase for that.

You can skip the rest.


==========

Fullmetal Alchemist explains magic as Alchemy, the science of manipulating matter through Equivalent Exchange: Knowing the subject matter, and rearranging it using the law of deconstruction, and reconstruction using a transmutation circle. Easy! Until... you ask, where does the energy used by the transmutation circle come from? Your own life force, your soul. So in order to do larger and larger feats of transmutations, you need more and more life force. Enter the Philosopher's Stone. Now, you're not using bits, and pieces, of "life force" , or tiny slivers of your soul, you need ENTIRE souls; MANY souls. (this is where 2003 Fullmetal separated from Brotherhood) Sacrifice another world, "Shambala" (Earth during WW1 London around the 1910s) from across "The Gate". Or in brotherhood, sacrifice the world with the characters as we knew it.
Not too complicated, but incredibly messy. Inspirational, until it got messy.

One Piece explains its magic comes from Devil Fruits that grow off "Adam trees" somewhere in the Grand-Line. Each fruit is special in its own way, and gives a person distinct properties, which they, themselves, must choose how to use. EX: Luffy, made of rubber, gains all attributes of rubber, making for some really cool abilities, humor, and action that wouldn't otherwise be possible. In one arc, there was a "God of Lightning" and throughout the entire arc, he's made to look like such a huge, terrible, crazy, unstoppable tyrant! -But Luffy is rubber. Rubber doesn't conduct electricity. At the time it was enjoyable to watch, but looking back, it was such a nothing arc. Future arcs would become so much more wild, or outlandish, or humorous, or dramatic, or etc. But the powers continued pressing toward newer heights. Enter Haki, where it didn't just matter about the Devil Fruits, and yes I know that Haki was introduced essentially first episode, but is NOW being formally introduced. Haki changes, a ton about what we understand about the show moving forward. Characters with gag devil fruits that in no way can ever be harmful, can still be beyond dangerous if they mastered any one of the designated Haki styles.. It's definitely interesting toward plot and story, but somewhere down the line, I think it went on just a bit too long, finally coming to a close.. in a few years? I dunno.
Not complicated, and inspirational, but so dang long.

I brought these two anime up because they're both well loved in their circles, and the circles they belong to are incredibly large with many fans, and many haters. Both explain their powers, and the power systems, but also unravel larger segments of that system to grand reveals that the system can, and have been corrupted in some way or form to prove the system is not as machine-like as the characters believe it to be.

In fullmetal, the system is corrupted by the homunculi (and therefore the government) to create the Philosopher's Stone to make them human, to give back humanity where humanity can't be given, but now have to ALSO deal with gods, and other worlds, and gates, and etc etc etc..
In One piece, its corrupted by Blackbeard having two Devil Fruit powers, and Kaido who is a master of All Haki, and somehow, Luffy had to overcome those trials; While also, might I add, dealing with the government who can give random background character K a bland, ordinary gun armed with seastone based bullets, and they could possibly suddenly defeat, essentially, god-like characters of the one piece universe.
All of this throws a wrench into what we thought we knew, and shows us how things can escalate into these gargantuan titans of storytelling. (One of course being larger than the other in current times since one is still actively being written.) But this is online. It's scribblehub. And most people that are running through here are doing just that; Running through. They want a story they can easily digest, and pick up, and continue moving through as they go through their own daily lives, not having to do homework of looking back on previous chapters of why certain magic is needed to do x thing to explain why did it do what it did?

An 11 or 12 episode anime, sure, I can probably look for specific moments to analyze and remind myself oh yea, this happened, and that's why this happened, right. next episode. Fullmetal Alchemist is 64 episodes long, I can probably try to look for references of why something happened. Maybe. But One piece?? One piece is 1100+ episodes long. And searching for why something about Haki did a certain thing out of nowhere, and trying to remember what episode they talked about it.. forget it. I'll look it up on youtube later describing wtf just happened because I blinked on certain episode containing a 2 sentence description of what that specific power can do combined with Haki if this certain condition is ever met at this distinct time of day while the full moon is out and raining and you just ate precisely two oranges over a canyon facing westward. Idk, man.. Sorry, some things just need to be less in order to be more, but at the same time, if you keep up, it's fascinating, isn't it? And that's what fantasy is all about; The fascination, the imagination.

In all fairness, magic can be anything.
Pokémon is fantasy about catching monsters; Sometimes explaining Biology. They have a whole song asking What kind of Pokémon are you? How do you do the things you do?
The Last Avatar is about the elements: Earth, Fire, Wind, Water. Then they throw a left turn and add Metal, Lightning, Ice, Combustion, Hell even Blood! And they explain almost EVERYTHING.
Deadman Wonderland also uses blood as a weapon. I don't know if people would consider this blood magic, but.. that's an anime that exists.

It just depends on what you want to do. Don't fight yourself. If explaining, and world building are your thing, Let it flow through you. I mean, within reason, of course. Don't go crazy on a single page, but a sentence, or two, here, and there, sprinkled in, and for most things, like in real life, show, don't tell. You can explain every single detail, but the important thing is to reveal it throughout the story. Let the system be a character in your story; They don't have to be the one speaking, but they do speak loudly. Give it time to develop, and grow, -And maybe later, you can throw your own wrench into the mix, add another system into the machine, and find out how to combine the two. Seems to me, that's the way to make a story go into insane levels of "Whoa". (Given, writing style is also important.)
 

Juia_Darkcrest

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I have never heard of that loser, but imagine hiring people to help you flesh out your world, pathetic

Yeah, just some loser.

Assuming you are not actually just joking.

He is arguably the best fantasy authour alive. His worlds are well thought out, his books are easy to understand yet technical enough that you don't feel like he is writing for a child. Every series he was written has been unique, not relying on common magic systems or typical things common in the fantasy genre.

He also runs free workshops for new writers, is a guest speaker at many universities, and has a helpful YT channel with writing advice. He even finished one of the last generations epic high fantasy series 'The Wheel of Time' after Robert Jordan died.

I would suggest reading his 'Mistborn' series, as it has one of the most unique magic systems I have ever seen, though that could be said for almost everything he writes.
I’ve got a big problem. I’m having a hard time creating a proper power system because my dumbass brain always wants an explanation for everything. It’s so strange, since I’ve devoured countless fantasy books (even xianxia) and never cared about logic or the mechanics behind them, but when it comes to creating my own? No chance…


For example, elemental magic. When I’m reading, I’m fine with: He cast a spell; bam, a fireball appears. But now, it’s different. I keep thinking, How can he create magic? How does it fit into the world? Where does the fire hails from. How does it come to life...

In short, I am thinking far too deep. Mystery is my enemy.

I think its because I cling too much to logic. And magic has its own logic, and is not bound to reality.


Any tips on how to “fix” that? Or is fantasy just not my genre? Maybe I should try soft magic systems instead…

Are you looking to like have your MC discover magic and have them build the magic from scratch, like the first wizard or something? Or are you looking at trying to explain scientifically how the magic works in your world? Or just how to write it? like;

He pulls on the energies of his soul, dragging the remnants of his mana along his magical circuits, forming a half-hearted fireball in his hand. "Die Goblin!" He screamed out, releasing the sorry spell in the beasts general direction. He waivered for a moment then passed out, not knowing if his last gambit would pay out or not.
 
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Placeholder

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I bounced off his Mistborn book, I think I felt at the time he overexplained things and relied too hard on having a system and a mechanism.

But these days I read litRPGs and Stray Cat fanfic.

Hambly's fun because some of her wizards are natural philosophers. Without being tedious about it, even. Ben Aaronovitch's Rivers of London series likewise.
 

Juia_Darkcrest

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I bounced off his Mistborn book, I think I felt at the time he overexplained things and relied too hard on having a system and a mechanism.

But these days I read litRPGs and Stray Cat fanfic.

Hambly's fun because some of her wizards are natural philosophers. Without being tedious about it, even. Ben Aaronovitch's Rivers of London series likewise.
That is sad, granted the first trilogy was more 'epic' in nature. The 2nd trilogy was the better series, and you could go into it without reading the first three.
 

CharlesEBrown

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Magic should have an INTERNAL logic - relative forces, manipulating energies, using mathematics, whatever. Beyond that, it can be as wild or as structured as you want (though more structure may end up looking more like Deryni psionics, Chinese Cultivation stories, or Buddhist alchemy)
 

Arkus86

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As a reader, I actually like it when magic is grounded in logical rules. The rules help keep the magic consistent, discourage annoying plot devices that rely on magic having no clear rules, and reduce power creep.
I don't need to know all the rules, but having them in your power system is not a drawback.
 
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