The Commoditization of Creativity *Ghost Writing Farms*

[Corty]

I somewhat also agree because it feels like a scam if it is not told that what you are reading is written by someone else. Even if that someone gets paid for it.

 

[CharlesEBrown]

How is this practice much different then paying someone to write all my academic papers because I have ideas but can't bothered to do the work? Should graduate with high honors and get my doctorate? There should be no problem. It's my work because I bought it. I should be able to use it in any way I want.

I actually had a group try to recruit me for this in college, and explained how and why it works. There is a line where this is allowed and where it is not. If the real author understands enough of the process to write about it competently (and, far more importantly, to discuss it competently with the scientist/s) this is acceptable - several promising scientists have been unable to get anything published because they can't write a decent sentence to save their lives, but can talk for hours on their field, often quite eloquently.
Problems come when the real author does not know what they are writing well enough to present it, because they will often, inadvertently, make revisions that can significantly alter the actual paper and cause trouble.

 

[JayMark]

They are being paid to write, using someone else's characters. The providing author acts as a mentor and partial editor for the novice.

Why would an author want a novice writing in their universe? Is this the unpaid internship version of the writing world? Put in your dues in the slave camp if you want to make it?

They are paid (and fairly generously from what I've heard but I do not know for a fact) and, unless they have REALLY bad contracts, or do not wish to have their names attached, DO get their n names on the indica, so they share credit if the book is submitted to the Library of Congress, as that is supposed to be what they use to index the work

Paid generously is hard to argue, do the writers make anything near the revenue their work earns for the brand? I haven't examined how much ghost writers make compared to what their work actually earns for the logo/brand name they write under. If the book goes to the LoC, can their names easily be found. Not that it matters too much, they remain invisible.

That depends entirely on the contracts involved. It also means the person credited with writing it has to do the social interaction part - the book tours and interviews, so that the actual writer is spared that stress (but, unless they have a really bad contract, gets the residuals from those appearances).

I have to think on this more. I don't know.

This has been part of the dark side of publishing for a century or so. Even comic books did this - a new author is given a line to work on and a "house name" or celebrity author to work under (a lot of the fantasy and romance series of the 60s through the 80s - at least - were done this way; if you see the name "Robert Arthur" as an author in that time span, about a quarter of the time it was a line editor with that name, about a quarter of the time it was his son, Robert Junior, and the rest of the time it was a staff writer) until they've proven themselves capable of writing something that might sell under their own name, when the publisher lets them do their own thing.

I don't like it. Their is a financial incentive to make this system the standard for writers to get published because of the exploitation of underpaid labour under the disguise of 'internship oppurtunities' Now I'm wondering how many ghost writers are actually doing 'internships' to contribute to a brand name. I hadn't even thought of this, another rabbit hole...

Which is good for the big names, and great for the publishers as that is almost guaranteed sales.

Of course...

Only in terms of exposure - and if they can get a good agent or with a publisher who supports them (instead of the majority who view them as disposable commodities) they can overcome this.

The chance these days is less than winning the biggest lottery jackpot.
J.K. Rowling is that one example they point to for 'look she did it' moment.

Backwards - the monopolization has generally been in effect for a long time. It just allows new authors to write, essentially, glorified fanfics. Star Trek, Conan, the Star Wars expanded universe, etc,

I find this problematic as well but it would be a deep rooted project in and of itself to elaborate why.

Issues 7, 8 and 9 are the same thing reworded.

It's so important that rewording bears meaning to elaborate nuances of the same trend.

 

[expentio]

It's interesting that in most media, particularly movies, it's quite the opposite. I mean, how often gets the author of the plot get truly credited, but the big name on the film is the director? Yes, the director compositions the movie, just like a ghostwriter would, but the one creating the story is the author, and there's a reason for that big writer's strike a while ago.

 

[JayMark]

It's interesting that in most media, particularly movies, it's quite the opposite. I mean, how often gets the author of the plot get truly credited, but the big name on the film is the director? Yes, the director compositions the movie, just like a ghostwriter would, but the one creating the story is the author, and there's a reason for that big writer's strike a while ago.

Interesting point. I don't know much about script writing though, except how to write one, which I never would *excluding conversion of existing works in novel form if desired* because it's an even more locked market. Their are no forums for script writers to find readers on their own.

 

[CharlesEBrown]

Why would an author want a novice writing in their universe? Is this the unpaid internship version of the writing world? Put in your dues in the slave camp if you want to make it?

It's more paid internship. I heard Clancy was a bit of a tightwad (though he did get a few others started in the business), but most of them have their farm under generous contracts and only a few demand kickbacks from unassigned stuff written under their own names while under contract (I've heard this WAS a practice, that authors under contract to a Name had to turn over a large percentage of what they made if they published anything under their own name while under contract, but I have been given the impression this is no longer true_)

Paid generously is hard to argue, do the writers make anything near the revenue their work earns for the brand? I haven't examined how much ghost writers make compared to what their work actually earns for the logo/brand name they write under. If the book goes to the LoC, can their names easily be found. Not that it matters too much, they remain invisible.

The few who've openly discussed their pay have not shared numbers, just said it WAS generous - less than they MIGHT have made on their own, but a guaranteed income. At least since some point in the 90s (I get the impression there was a big lawsuit that did not get a lot of publicity but did make a lot of attorneys very wealthy that made some major changes to the process).

I don't like it. Their is a financial incentive to make this system the standard for writers to get published because of the exploitation of underpaid labour under the disguise of 'internship oppurtunities' Now I'm wondering how many ghost writers are actually doing 'internships' to contribute to a brand name. I hadn't even thought of this, another rabbit hole...

Now here you have a real valid point - but also something that has been a "dirty little secret" of the genre publishers for decades.

 

[Golden_Hyde]

 

[ThisAdamGuy]

The few who've openly discussed their pay have not shared numbers, just said it WAS generous - less than they MIGHT have made on their own, but a guaranteed income.

How do I get in on this? I'm ghostwriting a novel for someone (maybe "co-author" is the better word since both of our names will be on the cover) and while he's being more than generous with his payments, this is still very much a side gig. I used to think I'd never sell out like that, but that was before I had to move out of my parents' house and get a job. I've spent the last decade and a half feeling my job slowly drain my soul from my body (I'm probably going to get fired before the end of the month, too) and I'm not even getting a decent paycheck for it. But you're telling me I can get a steady, livable wage for doing what I love, knowing that the books are guaranteed to be published and read because it has a recognizable name on it even if it isn't mine? Where do I sign?! No really, where do I find the people who are handing these contracts out so that I can get my name on one?

 

[JayMark]

How do I get in on this? I'm ghostwriting a novel for someone (maybe "co-author" is the better word since both of our names will be on the cover) and while he's being more than generous with his payments, this is still very much a side gig. I used to think I'd never sell out like that, but that was before I had to move out of my parents' house and get a job. I've spent the last decade and a half feeling my job slowly drain my soul from my body (I'm probably going to get fired before the end of the month, too) and I'm not even getting a decent paycheck for it. But you're telling me I can get a steady, livable wage for doing what I love, knowing that the books are guaranteed to be published and read because it has a recognizable name on it even if it isn't mine? Where do I sign?! No really, where do I find the people who are handing these contracts out so that I can get my name on one?

I wish you luck.

https://www.reddit.com/r/writing/comments/48c4qm

 

[CharlesEBrown]

How do I get in on this? I'm ghostwriting a novel for someone (maybe "co-author" is the better word since both of our names will be on the cover) and while he's being more than generous with his payments, this is still very much a side gig. I used to think I'd never sell out like that, but that was before I had to move out of my parents' house and get a job. I've spent the last decade and a half feeling my job slowly drain my soul from my body (I'm probably going to get fired before the end of the month, too) and I'm not even getting a decent paycheck for it. But you're telling me I can get a steady, livable wage for doing what I love, knowing that the books are guaranteed to be published and read because it has a recognizable name on it even if it isn't mine? Where do I sign?! No really, where do I find the people who are handing these contracts out so that I can get my name on one?

Honestly, if I knew I'd share. Only met one who discussed it under their own name, and lost contact a few years ago (before COVID so they may no longer be around - and I'm blanking on what the name was). There has been some discussion of this on Substack though, and you might be able to find some leads there.

 

[DireBadger]

Has anyone seen the movie 'Stranger than fiction'? It is literaLLY an evisceration of EVERY bad writer and publishing trope, but the humor is too subtle for most people to even realize that it's about terribly stupid publishing practices. Or rather, only those who have actually gotten involved in writing as a business, or as a reader or writer, is able to SEE how terrible the tropes really are.

 

[Turtels_Malone]

If you're ghost writing in any form or fashion it is important that you have a understanding that at the end of the day it is no longer your work. The price YOU put on creativity is your praise and acclaim.

 

[CharlesEBrown]

Has anyone seen the movie 'Stranger than fiction'? It is literaLLY an evisceration of EVERY bad writer and publishing trope, but the humor is too subtle for most people to even realize that it's about terribly stupid publishing practices. Or rather, only those who have actually gotten involved in writing as a business, or as a reader or writer, is able to SEE how terrible the tropes really are.

Is that one of Will Farrell's very few good roles? With Emily Blunt as the Author? If so, did not catch that subtest but did find it ... well, much funnier than most of his movies.