What do you think about writing not to be popular but to be remembered (eternal)?

[Ai-chan]

Ai-chan will take a dump on the idea of getting popular after death. Ai-chan once had a dream of getting remembered as a trailblazer or to become someone like Tolkien whose name is still being spoken of after death. But Ai-chan can't hope for that.

In the first place, you don't become remembered because you want to be remembered. You become remembered because somehow people remember you, and they spread your name. Tolkien's world-building was insane, sure, but his composition was nothing particularly appealing. Most people who read The Lord of the Rings book only powered through because of the allure of the movies and Tolkien's legendarium. His books are long and difficult to read, almost impossible to read in one sitting, with bad pacing and lots of literary components that people don't really understand, or care for. Ai-chan took half a year to finish reading the book despite being a bookworm who could finish a 50k words book in one night.

That being said, it was indeed very popular even before the movies. But the books received a lot of benefit from the movies that re-energized the reader-base. Had this not been the case, readership would've tanked by the turn of the century and it will only become known as one of those 'good books that remain in elite reader circles'. It's the same with Dune or Harry Potter. They were popular in their own right, but it was the movies that made them soar.

Heck, even half-wit Eragon can soar just because it has a movie. Without the movie, Eragon would just be a shallow novel with predictable plot and easy to read for children. With the movie, Eragon has a pretty visuals to go with the shallow story and predictable plot that now appeals to college-age readers, even if the movie sucks ass.

Same with Mortal Engines, Divergent and Hunger Games. They all benefit from the movies. Without the movies, they would just be a popular book at one point in time and eventually forgotten.

Let's take for example, Witch World by Andre Norton. Does anyone remember it? The author who became the first female Gandalf Grand Master of Fantasy.

What about Memory, Sorrow and Thorns by Tad Williams which was touted as the inspiration for G.R.R Martin's Song of Ice & Fire?

What about Daggerspell by Katherine Kerr?

Or any books by Piers Anthony such as Bio of A Space Tyrant.

 

[CharlesEBrown]

In the first place, you don't become remembered because you want to be remembered. You become remembered because somehow people remember you, and they spread your name. Tolkien's world-building was insane, sure, but his composition was nothing particularly appealing. Most people who read The Lord of the Rings book only powered through because of the allure of the movies and Tolkien's legendarium.

Maybe since 2000 but before that a lot of people read them because they were different, or because "everyone else was." My dad wore out a set of the paperbacks reading them, and my earliest memories include "clips" of him reading those books to mom while I was a baby (he started with The Hobbit before I was born, and finished Return of the King a little before my third birthday, reading about half a chapter a night, three to four nights a week, with a break in October for ghost stories instead - kept that part of the tradition up until I was five and his job started to need him to travel a bit). Most of my friends had read them before they were teenagers (and thus before I met many of them), as had I.

His books are long and difficult to read, almost impossible to read in one sitting, with bad pacing and lots of literary components that people don't really understand, or care for. Ai-chan took half a year to finish reading the book despite being a bookworm who could finish a 50k words book in one night.

Sounds like you're describing the one book of his I never got past the first ten or so pages of - The Silmarillion.

Heck, even half-wit Eragon can soar just because it has a movie. Without the movie, Eragon would just be a shallow novel with predictable plot and easy to read for children. With the movie, Eragon has a pretty visuals to go with the shallow story and predictable plot that now appeals to college-age readers, even if the movie sucks ass.

Eragon has a bad movie - pretty much a fantasy version of Star Wars episodes IV and V smushed together (and with more in common with those two films than with the actual book) into one pretty but brain-dead package. What makes Eragon and its first sequel (which I have read) memorable is that Chris Paolini was 15 when he wrote the first book (and it shows, much like Frankenstein: Or the Modern Prometheus also shows that it was written by a promising 19 year old - Shelley's later works are light years better, but not as memorable), and IIRC signed the contract for the second on his 18th birthday (or maybe that was the day he got the proofs for it)

Same with Mortal Engines, Divergent and Hunger Games. They all benefit from the movies. Without the movies, they would just be a popular book at one point in time and eventually forgotten.

Now there I believe you are correct. I've heard the Mortal Engines books are kind of bad but ambitious enough to overlook most of the flaws - but the movie was ... cool but predictable.
From what I've heard (never read the books), the series The Hunger Games is based on was one of the better "Dark YA" series of the early 21st Century and may be the only one to survive on its own merits. Doubt that, say, Twilight will enjoy that.

 

[Ai-chan]

Maybe since 2000 but before that a lot of people read them because they were different, or because "everyone else was." My dad wore out a set of the paperbacks reading them, and my earliest memories include "clips" of him reading those books to mom while I was a baby (he started with The Hobbit before I was born, and finished Return of the King a little before my third birthday, reading about half a chapter a night, three to four nights a week, with a break in October for ghost stories instead - kept that part of the tradition up until I was five and his job started to need him to travel a bit). Most of my friends had read them before they were teenagers (and thus before I met many of them), as had I.


Sounds like you're describing the one book of his I never got past the first ten or so pages of - The Silmarillion.


Eragon has a bad movie - pretty much a fantasy version of Star Wars episodes IV and V smushed together (and with more in common with those two films than with the actual book) into one pretty but brain-dead package. What makes Eragon and its first sequel (which I have read) memorable is that Chris Paolini was 15 when he wrote the first book (and it shows, much like Frankenstein: Or the Modern Prometheus also shows that it was written by a promising 19 year old - Shelley's later works are light years better, but not as memorable), and IIRC signed the contract for the second on his 18th birthday (or maybe that was the day he got the proofs for it)

Now there I believe you are correct. I've heard the Mortal Engines books are kind of bad but ambitious enough to overlook most of the flaws - but the movie was ... cool but predictable.
From what I've heard (never read the books), the series The Hunger Games is based on was one of the better "Dark YA" series of the early 21st Century and may be the only one to survive on its own merits. Doubt that, say, Twilight will enjoy that.

Ai-chan couldn't finish Silmarillion either. Couldn't even get past half. In the end, Ai-chan just gave the book to a nephew as his 12th birthday present.

As for Hunger Games, it was clearly inspired from Battle Royale novel by Koushun Takami. A Japanese book that also has 1 manga and 2 movies attributed to it. The first movie was iconic.

 

[CharlesEBrown]

Ai-chan couldn't finish Silmarillion either. Couldn't even get past half. In the end, Ai-chan just gave the book to a nephew as his 12th birthday present.

As for Hunger Games, it was clearly from Battle Royale novel by Koushun Takami. A Japanese book that also has 2 movies attributed to it.

Never heard that about Hunger Games (and only heard Battle Royale had one movie, not two - have even heard a few scenes from it but never saw it... though from what I did hear, it was kind of a future version of Game of Death, a fun little Bruce Lee movie)

 

[Ai-chan]

Never heard that about Hunger Games (and only heard Battle Royale had one movie, not two - have even heard a few scenes from it but never saw it... though from what I did hear, it was kind of a future version of Game of Death, a fun little Bruce Lee movie)

The manga was not very appealing to western people who enjoy manga. The artist drew in those old-fashioned art style that looks ugly. Even Ai-chan only managed to finish the manga through sheer will and only because it was free. Ai-chan wouldn't have bought it with that kind of art.

As for the second movie, if you like the first movie, you will probably like the second one, though they don't fight each other now and are given actual assault rifles. Shuya who survived the first movie became the leader of the resistance and the BR2 initiative was made to send students to fight this resistance. In the end, the attack failed and the Japanese government bombarded the island with long-range missiles. It ends with the resistance and the survivors of the BR2 class meeting together in probably Afghanistan.

 

[laccoff_mawning]

Isn't to be rememebered the same as being popular over a long period of time? If you're goal is to be remembered, you're still seeking recognition from people at the end of the day.

If anything, it's even worse- a person whom seeks to be popular seeks to be popular for this generation only. A person who seeks to be remembered seeks to be popular for all generations after this one.

edit: I guess I somehow missed OP's edit. Oh well.

 

[RepresentingWrath]

Your OP is so full of contradictions it's not even funny, but I digress. In the end, unlike other people I think every goal is equal and valid. The main problem is being honest to yourself and picking the right goal.

 

[CharlesEBrown]

Edit:
Many readers have misunderstood the essence of my article. I will clarify this understanding so that it is not misdirected:

1. Eternal here means remaining alive in the memory of a collective wound that must not be forgotten. Not to be known by all (not to be popular across time), but so that silenced voices can live on, even in silence. Even if it only touches one fragile soul in the future.
2. My fictions are not written to be famous, but so that the cries of those once unheard remain alive in this world. If one person hears them and is saved, then that is enough.
3. I realise that a work of fiction like this may not be widely known and may be forgotten by the larger world. But I write for the small world left behind, those who have lost their voices, their bodies, and their homes.
4. I quote Elie not because he won a Nobel Prize, but because he said, “I don’t want my work to be literature. I want it to remain a scream.” That is also why I write, not to be beautiful, but to keep bleeding. If you doubt my statement, you can examine my works of fiction to see if they truly contain the screams of collective pain or are merely aesthetic melodramas.
5. This article is not a writing guide, not a tutorial on becoming famous, not a motivation for success as a writer. This is the existential manifesto of a writer who refuses to forget humanity's collective pain and refuses to be forced to write for the market.
6. I have never rejected the idea of popularity. On the contrary, if popularity can evoke collective pain for remembrance, then that's fine. What I reject is the market becoming a 'sacred guideline' for writing. If the market loves 'rape,' should we write about rape to satisfy the market? Even if rape is a tragedy that needs to be written for a tragic narrative, aren't there always elegant ways to write that avoid the male gaze, trauma porn, and sadism and remain empathetic toward the victims? Writers should have narrative integrity and not become slaves to the market.
7. Popularity can make you known. But an honest cry, even if only heard by one soul, can make you remembered by a wound that refuses to die. And a wound that lives on... far more eternal than trending.
8. Closing: I apologise if my thread has hurt your feelings. This thread is intended as a space for discussion, not judgment, because full awareness comes from voices that are willing to listen.

If I am to be remembered, I would prefer it to be for helping heal a wound rather than making it scream across all of time and space, personally.

 

[Macha]

If I am to be remembered, I would prefer it to be for inventing a time machine just to casually approach my grandmother and her daughter then cause their free trial of existing to expire rather than screaming to the void.

 

[zephyrtrillian]

Honestly...I think the world is filled with written works. I think you're lucky if you get a subset of people to truly care about and remember your work for half a lifetime, and insanely lucky if they remember you for hundreds of years (which you won't know, anyway). It's a fool's errand, in my book, to be remembered for "eternity."

But, shoot for the moon. If you miss, you'll land among the stars.

 

[BigBadBoi]

Anyone writing on a webnovel website does not have the skill to pull this off. Frankly, writing to be "remembered" on a webnovel website is a silly pursuit.
A lot of budding authors write experimental, usually poorly written works that are completely unsuitable for webnovel audiences. They tell themselves they are writing for themselves; why try and appease readers?
Then they get no readers and no followers. Rather than accept that A: they are a poor writer and need to improve or B: webnovel readers have expected genres and themes and diverging from them will not gain them much viewership, they blame philistines for not liking their work.
There is room to be creative, but it must be within the expected genres and themes.

You say that when most of the shit in bookstore are female oriented romance slop and the others are manga and light novels.