Legends.

Senx1l

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This is probably going to be ignored but I have a question or multiple pertaining to an argument I got into with a friend.

An individual who died some days ago was famous amongst multiple people and is/was referred to as a legend.

This individual also happened to be a very horrible person and hated a certain race of people. My question is does that still make them a legend, once all of that is acknowledged? Does that still mean the memory should be honored if in their life/career all they did was spew hateful rhetoric?

I’m not saying their impact should be ignored but why call them something they are undeserving of. Even the people this individual worked with acknowledged they were a horrible person.

Perhaps this is all too “woke” especially for a cite like this but I need to see am I just nitpicking. Or am I reasonable for calling a spade a spade.
 

DeepWater

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You seem to have a very one-dimensional view of people, boiling down a person's entire life to "all they did was spew hateful rhetoric". Yeah, what you're saying is incredibly woke, and also stupid. See people as human beings, not just whatever you dislike about them.
 

RepresentingWrath

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First, saying one word doesn't make you a horrible person. Second, saying hated by a race is a huge fucking stretch considereing there are a lot of people that still liked him and accepted his apology. Shocking I know, but you can accept apology. An example. Stevie Ray, Booker T's brother, a person who worked with him, said he accepts his apology. So I don't know. You decide if you want to listen to soytards that hate a person for saying one word and don't know what apology is, or how to accept them.
 

Hans.Trondheim

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I would point to history to say there are figures that are venerated as legends before and yet, they got some nasty stories behind them. It all boils down in the perspective; being a good/horrible person would depend on who benefitted and who suffered for their deeds. History and recognition vary over time, usually relying on the values held by generations who knew it.

Real people, like story characters, are complicated. Saying hateful things/being hated by a certain group of people doesn't automatically make them evil/bad, especially if you look into the reasons why they ended up like that.
 
D

Deleted member 166465

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First of all: I want to call to atention the fact that we humans hate each other for some reason or another. Skin color, religion, it doesnt matter. Actually we hate our own groups the most, pakistani and indians hate each other... I cant tell them apart. Arabs hate one another. Philipines and cambodian... they look the same to me. How many wars france and UK fought? 52? Korean, japanese, chinese, they dont like each other. Your self Senx1l; I am sure you have your own bunch of people you cant stand becouse you dont like their politics or the way they think, or the way they want to raise THEIR KIDS.
what makes you diferent from that famous person you just mentioned?
Nothing, you are the same, to me you are all the same and I hate you all the same. I am like death, I will give everyone the same, my undivided and 100% hate and spite (Sociopath, antisocial, misanthrope here).

Now back to the subject at hand:
It is not what you say or what you do perse what matters, it is what you acomplish (even if that comes from something you said or do).
Let me explain: Imagine you are a racist, you talk a lot of crap, but you never got to anyone, will you be remembered? NO. Will you be a legend? NO.
Now imagine your horrible ideas resonate with a lot of people, and those people make horrible things in your name, and the name of your ideas. Will you be remembered? YES. Are you a legend? YES.
You see, humans are hypocrites by nature, we dont care if it is "good" or "bad" (if such things exist), we only care about result: Did it made waves around humanity? Is it popular? Did it left a mark or a scar in the world?
We care about the extraordinary, good or bad.
Openheimer was an asshole.
Lovecraft was a racist.
The great Khang was a murderous Grapist.
Hi**er was a genocidal maniac.
Lets come even closer, stephen hawking was a real jerk.
Who likes metalica... talk about lars, another jerk.

So back to you. You just hate the guy becouse he was a jerk, becouse he didnt like certain race. But you yourself dont like people who dont like certain race, by that metric, you are just the same, and that is okey.
Hate is good. It is fuel, you can get to the gym and get stronger out of hate.
You can try to make a huge Nuclear device out of hate.
You can create a new chemical to erase people out of hate, that later can be used as a pesticide... or the other way around.
It doesnt matter, the genocided race will become the genocidal.
The hated people will become the hater.
It is normal for humans, learn to hate them all. I enjoy the fact that people are killing each other all around the world, becouse while they are at it, they leave me alone. Once they are done with one another, they will find a reason to come for me OR FOR YOU.
Let them hate and kill each other.
I remind you that five years ago, when everyone was in panic about covid and we believed our lives were at stake, we forgot all about solidarity, most people called the cops on their neightboors, most people did dumb things without thinking, most people tried to hoard some resources for them selves and their family and fought like rabbid maniacs in supermarkets... for toilet paper (I still cant believe it, even after seing it with my own eyes)
We live toguether in this planet, but we are not toguether, and one day will come you will be the one hunting other for their race, religion, vaccination status, gender, sexual preferences, politics or maybe you will be the one hunted for the same reason.
Damn this is long.
(imagine there is the image of a potato here)
 
D

Deleted member 206441

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*shrug
Hogan? I didnt really know of his work from the 80s, i do know him as the "weapon" or partner in crime of billionaire Peter Thiel that took down Gawker Media.

It was from that i know of his racism towards African Americans, and also how I learn of how he scuttled the chance of WWE wrestlers from forming a union to protect their rights as performers in the 80s(?) And iirc performers for wrestling still have no union.

I haven't keep tracker of him since but i imagine most people only know Hogan of their on stage persona. Kind of a family friendly, people's hero type narrative in the 80s with a brash charismatic showmanship that is very "American".

Thus they call him a legend.

For people that do know of his off stage antics and still love him, may see a racist, conniving and sadistically opportunistic person as the quintessential essence of what a great guy is and is what would make America great.

Or they see it and dont care. Or they think the "good" out weight the bad.

For that they will also call him a legend, so take that as you will.

There are also people that call him a legend sarcastically.
 

Hans.Trondheim

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*shrug
Hogan? I didnt really know of his work from the 80s, i do know him as the "weapon" or partner in crime of billionaire Peter Thiel that took down Gawker Media.

It was from that i know of his racism towards African Americans, and also how I learn of how he scuttled the chance of WWE wrestlers from forming a union to protect their rights as performers in the 80s(?) And iirc performers for wrestling still have no union.

I haven't keep tracker of him since but i imagine most people only know Hogan of their on stage persona. Kind of a family friendly, people's hero type narrative in the 80s with a brash charismatic showmanship that is very "American".

Thus they call him a legend.

For people that do know of his off stage antics and still love him, may see a racist, conniving and sadistically opportunistic person as the quintessential essence of what a great guy is and is what would make America great.

Or they see it and dont care. Or they think the "good" out weight the bad.

For that they will also call him a legend, so take that as you will.

There are also people that call him a legend sarcastically.
To add to your point...

Abe Lincoln is one of the most venerated American figures in history, mainly known for his liberation of slaves outside the US (I'm from Philippines).

But when I read into his early years before becoming a president, I observed that he also is a shrewd politician...with tactics similar to what I saw in our own political circus nowadays.

Did that change my way of seeing Lincoln? Definitely. Do I think of him as evil now? I still think he's a good fellow, but not to some ol' Confeds.

Another would be Osama bin Laden. Many see him as a terrorist, with many of us learning of his existence after 9/11 happened. But I also know some people who see him as a hero, with one couple eventually naming their kid after him.
 

Jerynboe

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There are points at which one’s crimes overshadow anything good done in life, which are so great as to make appreciation of someone’s work (either “good works” or just being entertaining) kinda absurd. For me, that’s a pretty high bar. Somewhere above non-contact sexual harassment and below serial murder. For others, it’s as low as saying an unkind word about the wrong kind of person in a personal conversation.

Luckily, no one is required to like someone just because someone else sees them as a legend. If you feel strongly about the subject, do what I do whenever I see someone wearing Che Guevara merch and mark them in your head as someone to never ever seriously discuss politics or morality with.
 

Tyranomaster

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No human being is truly good. Least of all those who strive to morally browbeat others. Anyone who claims hateful rhetoric in America today is worse than it was 60 years ago is crazy. Almost every scientist and politician who legitimately made the world a better place in history also had some abhorrent views. If you dwell on the bad, you'll actively regress society and ensure that only the bad is remembered. If you focus on the good, you can let society actively improve and move on from the worse parts. Your choice.
 

NotaNuffian

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One man's hero is another man's devil?

This sounds chunni but it is true. Feel free on what you want, brother. Just remember harm principle.

 
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ThisAdamGuy

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My question is, why are you posting this on a fantasy writing forum? Next are you going to go to Gamefaqs and ask them why they aren't vegans? Besides that, the way you worded your "question" makes it clear you've already made up your mind and you're just fishing for validation. "This individual also happened to be a very horrible person and hated a certain race of people" aren't the words of someone who's open to having their views challenged. You should try asking this on Reddit. Not only are their several subreddits where a question like this would actually fit, but with that site's political leanings, you're more likely to get the replies you're obviously hoping for.
 

Senx1l

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i wasn’t hoping for any replies catered towards my views I just wanted perspective that’s all. This wasn’t supposed to be a thread of me fishing for responses I want, this was supposed to be a thread about people giving their opinions, and me being open-minded about them.

Is it a bad thing to want to have your mind changed on a topic you might be wrong on? I don’t despise the individual because of their views but I do disagree with them. My friend brung him up to me and I gave my thoughts then he argued with me about it. We eventually just stopped talking about it but it stayed on my mind because I just felt a certain way about the conversation. I don’t rlly use other platforms fr so I just used this one, to gain other thoughts on it.

I’m sorry if I came off as political or dumb. I just wanted to genuinely have a conversation without being seen as “close-minded” or stuck on my own opinion/views.
 

Hans.Trondheim

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i wasn’t hoping for any replies catered towards my views I just wanted perspective that’s all. This wasn’t supposed to be a thread of me fishing for responses I want, this was supposed to be a thread about people giving their opinions, and me being open-minded about them.

Is it a bad thing to want to have your mind changed on a topic you might be wrong on?
Nope, tis isn't a bad thing. However, like the topic of this thread, people's response to one's question depends on how they see it as well.

Some took it quite aggressive, others tried to politely explain to you. Nevertheless, tis a good thing you asked; tis a pretty sensitive topic, but at least you got some other views.
 
D

Deleted member 84247

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i wasn’t hoping for any replies catered towards my views I just wanted perspective that’s all. This wasn’t supposed to be a thread of me fishing for responses I want, this was supposed to be a thread about people giving their opinions, and me being open-minded about them.

Is it a bad thing to want to have your mind changed on a topic you might be wrong on? I don’t despise the individual because of their views but I do disagree with them. My friend brung him up to me and I gave my thoughts then he argued with me about it. We eventually just stopped talking about it but it stayed on my mind because I just felt a certain way about the conversation. I don’t rlly use other platforms fr so I just used this one, to gain other thoughts on it.

I’m sorry if I came off as political or dumb. I just wanted to genuinely have a conversation without being seen as “close-minded” or stuck on my own opinion/views.
Wow, a sensible person online? Imagine that. You have earned +25 respect points and 13 blehmonade coupons. Most would have gotten defensive or argumentative.
 

JayMark

It's Not Easy Being Nobody, But Somebody Has To.
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Hulk Hogan ate a steak before he died.
 

JayMark

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No, Hulk Hogan did not die. While a news article reports the death of a "Legendary WWE Hall of Famer Hulk Hogan", the article is a fabricated story, and the image used is an AI-generated fake. In reality, Hulk Hogan is still alive and has been open about his health and diet, including incorporating steak into his meals. According to a Men's Health article, his diet includes options like chicken or steak or sashimi for lunch and dinner. There is no indication that he recently ate a steak before a fabricated death. The article is a hoax meant to generate clicks and engagement.
 
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