How Do Fuse Xianxia and Medieval Fantasy?

[Arch9CivilReactor]

It’s just a random thought I had but I feel like this is a dilemma every time I’m trying to write a Xianxia story connected to my universe. The hidden rules of the story universe is that no matter what you do, every ‘Ultimate Skill’ can only be five and of a certain strength. Only by adding conditions can that strength be amplified.

Stuff like ‘Flag Formations’ falls under that category nicely as well as Martial Arts. Wuxia is easier to do since conditions = more strength can be chalked up to the human limit. The only way to overcome it being either in short bursts or with great sacrifice (which needs constant renewal).

But Xianxia is inherently about breaking limits and defying expectations, which kinda counters the in-built limits I have set up. Transitioning from not being able to use magic to being able to use it is one thing. Being unskilled and being skilled is another thing. But carving out mountains is exclusively done when you meet conditions rather than being effortless.

How can one implement the same logic into Xianxia? The generic Realms in Eastern Fantasy normally have different unspoken rules and restrictions different from this. I know Xuanhuan is a genre but I’d like to be able to at least mimic a Xianxia world if I wanted to.

It’s a dilemma because if I ignore my own rules then I wouldn’t be able to keep consistency, but if I do then it wouldn’t be a Xianxia anymore. The realms would become short with each level doing small increases in power to the human limit.

 

[RainyLiquid]

The way I did it in my novel Phoenix Flight was to more or less have different mini pocket realms all with their own rules and powers but each realm sometimes connects to one another causing bleedover effects.

So like the story takes place in a kingdom and is full of knights and magic and is built on chivalry, but there is another realm that is right next door where the people all use various forms of martial arts, qi, and are busy cultivating and forming sects instead of houses. Sometimes a "dungeon" appears which is the term in the Knight realm which is basically a space bending portal that can cause two lands to exist on top of each other so one moment the Knights are fighting each other swinging around Excalibur like weapons that fire out waves of mana and then the next thing they know they're suddenly engaged in some duel with some robed guy who's doing crazy kung-fu.

It isn't just Knights or Martial Artists either though. Some realms are based on Sci-Fi so sometimes you also get random giant mechs that are made to fight Kaiju's which will plop down as well.

 

[RepresentingPride]

It’s just a random thought I had but I feel like this is a dilemma every time I’m trying to write a Xianxia story connected to my universe. The hidden rules of the story universe is that no matter what you do, every ‘Ultimate Skill’ can only be five and of a certain strength. Only by adding conditions can that strength be amplified.

Stuff like ‘Flag Formations’ falls under that category nicely as well as Martial Arts. Wuxia is easier to do since conditions = more strength can be chalked up to the human limit. The only way to overcome it being either in short bursts or with great sacrifice (which needs constant renewal).

But Xianxia is inherently about breaking limits and defying expectations, which kinda counters the in-built limits I have set up. Transitioning from not being able to use magic to being able to use it is one thing. Being unskilled and being skilled is another thing. But carving out mountains is exclusively done when you meet conditions rather than being effortless.

How can one implement the same logic into Xianxia? The generic Realms in Eastern Fantasy normally have different unspoken rules and restrictions different from this. I know Xuanhuan is a genre but I’d like to be able to at least mimic a Xianxia world if I wanted to.

It’s a dilemma because if I ignore my own rules then I wouldn’t be able to keep consistency, but if I do then it wouldn’t be a Xianxia anymore. The realms would become short with each level doing small increases in power to the human limit.

If you add anything from western culture, then it will become Xuanhuan, exemple, since it's medieval fantasy, I assume there elf and dwarf, right? Then it become Xuanhuan just for that reason.

Also, there limit in some Xianxia stories, you can have a limit in your universe that can't be reach or break. You can never explain it, or found thousands reason to have a limit set in the universe.

For a story based on medieval fantasy with cultivation, you have The beginning after the end, if that can help you found some idea to how implement it.


Edit:

In Wuxia, they break limit too, the description of the two genre bend sometime together, and they often the same, but the most difference that separate the genre are these:

Xianxia is chinese fantasy with a setting related to their myth and legends, the cultivation path are often related toward budhism, taoism or confucianism.
Wuxia is chinese fantasy with a "Hero" fighting against evil.

In a lot of stories the characters never reach godhood cause there limit imposed by the world on them, and that limit can be the limit of the skill in your story.

 

[Arch9CivilReactor]

If you add anything from western culture, then it will become Xuanhuan, exemple, since it's medieval fantasy, I assume there elf and dwarf, right? Then it become Xuanhuan just for that reason.

Also, there limit in some Xianxia stories, you can have a limit in your universe that can't be reach or break. You can never explain it, or found thousands reason to have a limit set in the universe.

For a story based on medieval fantasy with cultivation, you have The beginning after the end, if that can help you found some idea to how implement it.


Edit:

In Wuxia, they break limit too, the description of the two genre bend sometime together, and they often the same, but the most difference that separate the genre are these:

Xianxia is chinese fantasy with a setting related to their myth and legends, the cultivation path are often related toward budhism, taoism or confucianism.
Wuxia is chinese fantasy with a "Hero" fighting against evil.

In a lot of stories the characters never reach godhood cause there limit imposed by the world on them, and that limit can be the limit of the skill in your story.

Thats an interesting take. I’ll keep it in mind. It looks like I am over complicating this by working in a narrow understanding. I’ll definitely check out TBATE’s system since I hadn’t really considered it despite reading the series a while ago.

 

[Tsuru]

 

[Ai-chan]

It’s just a random thought I had but I feel like this is a dilemma every time I’m trying to write a Xianxia story connected to my universe. The hidden rules of the story universe is that no matter what you do, every ‘Ultimate Skill’ can only be five and of a certain strength. Only by adding conditions can that strength be amplified.

Stuff like ‘Flag Formations’ falls under that category nicely as well as Martial Arts. Wuxia is easier to do since conditions = more strength can be chalked up to the human limit. The only way to overcome it being either in short bursts or with great sacrifice (which needs constant renewal).

But Xianxia is inherently about breaking limits and defying expectations, which kinda counters the in-built limits I have set up. Transitioning from not being able to use magic to being able to use it is one thing. Being unskilled and being skilled is another thing. But carving out mountains is exclusively done when you meet conditions rather than being effortless.

How can one implement the same logic into Xianxia? The generic Realms in Eastern Fantasy normally have different unspoken rules and restrictions different from this. I know Xuanhuan is a genre but I’d like to be able to at least mimic a Xianxia world if I wanted to.

It’s a dilemma because if I ignore my own rules then I wouldn’t be able to keep consistency, but if I do then it wouldn’t be a Xianxia anymore. The realms would become short with each level doing small increases in power to the human limit.

Xianxia + medieval fantasy = xuanhuan.

Go read xuanhuan for tips. As for limits, there is nothing stopping you from breaking limits such as ascending into pantheon of the gods and taking your place there. The chinese webnovels are full of these kinds of stories, it's not even rare anymore.

 

[EphemeralEmperor]

You can come up with some idea that a cultivation manual landed in alternate universe medieval France, and it actually worked. Maybe tie in druids or witchcraft elements and some soldier going about using their "improved" witchcraft to turn the tides. I don't know, just spitballing. Enjoy writing it!

 

[CharlesEBrown]

Depends on the era you're using. Given, for example, that there was a version of The Three Musketeers filmed more like a martial arts movie than typical, it should not be difficult at all - just focus on the "personal growth" side and don't sweat the parts that just don't really fit - but it would probably align better with late medieval/renaissance era stories than with Arthurian/Carolingian ones.
To some degree, alchemy is very similar to xianxia.

 

[Grizzly18]

It’s just a random thought I had but I feel like this is a dilemma every time I’m trying to write a Xianxia story connected to my universe. The hidden rules of the story universe is that no matter what you do, every ‘Ultimate Skill’ can only be five and of a certain strength. Only by adding conditions can that strength be amplified.

Stuff like ‘Flag Formations’ falls under that category nicely as well as Martial Arts. Wuxia is easier to do since conditions = more strength can be chalked up to the human limit. The only way to overcome it being either in short bursts or with great sacrifice (which needs constant renewal).

But Xianxia is inherently about breaking limits and defying expectations, which kinda counters the in-built limits I have set up. Transitioning from not being able to use magic to being able to use it is one thing. Being unskilled and being skilled is another thing. But carving out mountains is exclusively done when you meet conditions rather than being effortless.

How can one implement the same logic into Xianxia? The generic Realms in Eastern Fantasy normally have different unspoken rules and restrictions different from this. I know Xuanhuan is a genre but I’d like to be able to at least mimic a Xianxia world if I wanted to.

It’s a dilemma because if I ignore my own rules then I wouldn’t be able to keep consistency, but if I do then it wouldn’t be a Xianxia anymore. The realms would become short with each level doing small increases in power to the human limit.

You can’t they are separate genres for a reason. Xianxia has very specific criteria that don’t allow for mixing with a very different Europeanesque medieval fantasy. As people say in the thing mixing it is called xuanhuan and it can be done but if you’re talking about some seamless integration then nope completely impossible. It would be like trying to flawless mix sci-fi and fantasy. Impossible. Phasers do not fit into a land of swords and sorcery it’s called anachronistic for a reason afterall. In the end I’d read the xuanhuan comments and start from there.

 

[lirvothethird]

Just do it as mostly preparation. Make it hard to accumulate energy, so they resort to external means. Just remember, for extra fun, make sure something from nothing never happens.

 

[Zagaroth]

I mixed the ideas of cultivation into my world in a different way. Maybe some of this will inspire you with a new idea for how you mix things up. :)

All paths of power, of strengthening oneself, have cultivator like impacts. The more physical ones path, the more impact there is upon the body. There are swordsman who can cleave stone and steel with any random stick they pick up, knights who can effortless swat away canon balls, thieves who can slip into the shadows on one side of a wall and out of the shadows on the other side, etc.

Folk like wizards receive the least physical improvement, though a powerful wizard still physically outclasses, say, a fit and physical farmhand, blacksmith, or fresh recruit by more than a little. Instead, they gain mastery over magic and an increasing mana capacity.

Which also means there are many ways of reaching immortality. The way of the meditative master martial artist is one of the more direct methods if that is one's goal. Druids and wizards are also pretty good at it, but even a brash and bold warrior can reach immortality, if his legend grows strong enough.

But this is simply physical immortality, eternal health and effectively youth, though the appearance of youth may elude some depending on one's path and self image. It also comes with dangers. Those who run from death because of fear are prone to becoming undead; someone who is too stagnant and unchanging can make themselves into living statures; one who does not have a stable enough identity and sense of self might go insane and become a literal monster, etc.

And unlike many worlds, the afterlife is a verified fact of existence. Leaving the mortal coil means potentially moving onto the domain/heaven of your chosen deity, if you have followed their ideals closely enough. If not, you go before the Judge of the Dead, who determines which afterlife, if any, you go to. Memory-less reincarnation is a possibility. So there is little drive to reach immortality unless you are truly enjoying your life.

This means that most of the Scary Old Powers wandering the world tend to have stable, healthy personalities. Relatively speaking.

They may not be particularly nice, but they are not likely to be actively malicious, because that too would warp them. This is about where most end their major growth, though most will still slowly grow in power and skill by broadening their scope of power. Getting beyond here requires more than powerful legends, it requires the deliberate cultivation of faith, which includes shaping the faith into a cohesive identity that is compatible with who you are.

This is the path toward godhood. It is also one of the few actions that enable the existing gods to directly intervene with a heavy hand, if they choose, and it is also something they would all be immediately aware of. They are not offended by the 'hubris' of ascent, but they do have standards. There are no gods of murder or torture or anything of the like, because the existing gods won't allow the ascent of anyone who has the potential to develop that sort of portfolio.

If you need to pray for success in an attempt to murder someone, you need to find a god who finds your motivations to be sufficient to justify the act. While the courts might not weigh in favor of an abused wife poisoning her husband, the gods might (depending on the situation and the god).

Back to ascension: There is no finite tribulation of lightning or other such nonsense. If they decide to remove you, a sufficiently powerful avatar shows up and your life ends and your soul is handed over to the Judge of the Dead. There is no way of being powerful enough to win. You *might* be able to set up a scenario where the cost in other lives might make the gods pause, but that will not last long enough to complete ascension. Worst case scenario: Time freezes, everything with a soul or spirit that is not-you is transferred to a nigh-identical copy of the planet (minus anything else they don't want, like say, wards or traps), you and the original planet are removed from existence, then new planet is moved into place, given the correct orientation and momentum, and then time is resumed.

This is very, very heavy handed. I doubt that it has ever been needed. But the most powerful of the gods can do stuff like that, and it would not even count as significant effort. They just aren't supposed to interfere with the free will of mortals that much, so it truly has to be necessary.

However, assuming a divine candidate does not get removed (and really, most do not), then there are simply stages of quasi-deity, demi-deity, local-deity, lesser-deity, and so on to move through. These are not riveting tails of might and heroics. They are the slow accumulation of faith combined with the actualization of the sort of god you want to be. A potential god of protection needs to act as a protector for a large enough population for a long enough period of time to cement the idea of them as such into the universe.

And I rambled on longer than intended. But I think you can at least get a good idea of where I have melded xianxia concepts into more western ideas of growth in power, growth of the self, growth of faith, etc.

 

[CharlesEBrown]

As people say in the thing mixing it is called xuanhuan and it can be done but if you’re talking about some seamless integration then nope completely impossible. It would be like trying to flawless mix sci-fi and fantasy. Impossible. Phasers do not fit into a land of swords and sorcery

There's a few solid counter-examples. Dungeon Crawl Classics has a mega-module mixing the two. TSR Dungeon module S-3: Expedition to the Barrier Peaks mixed the two. And then there's this little series of movies, comic books, and television shows that managed to merge sci-fi, fantasy and even wu-xia elements, maybe you've heard of it somewhere, under the name "Star Wars"?

 

[BearlyAlive]

Just re-label everything! Sects? Just call them families. Cultivation? Just call it magic. Formations and Fenshui? Just call it Alchemy. The names like Wang-ma long-dong? Call 'em Sir Dickhard the Towering.

See, all easy and effortless, and people will love you for your innovative and original story.

 

[Arch9CivilReactor]

I mixed the ideas of cultivation into my world in a different way. Maybe some of this will inspire you with a new idea for how you mix things up. :)

All paths of power, of strengthening oneself, have cultivator like impacts. The more physical ones path, the more impact there is upon the body. There are swordsman who can cleave stone and steel with any random stick they pick up, knights who can effortless swat away canon balls, thieves who can slip into the shadows on one side of a wall and out of the shadows on the other side, etc.

Folk like wizards receive the least physical improvement, though a powerful wizard still physically outclasses, say, a fit and physical farmhand, blacksmith, or fresh recruit by more than a little. Instead, they gain mastery over magic and an increasing mana capacity.

Which also means there are many ways of reaching immortality. The way of the meditative master martial artist is one of the more direct methods if that is one's goal. Druids and wizards are also pretty good at it, but even a brash and bold warrior can reach immortality, if his legend grows strong enough.

But this is simply physical immortality, eternal health and effectively youth, though the appearance of youth may elude some depending on one's path and self image. It also comes with dangers. Those who run from death because of fear are prone to becoming undead; someone who is too stagnant and unchanging can make themselves into living statures; one who does not have a stable enough identity and sense of self might go insane and become a literal monster, etc.

And unlike many worlds, the afterlife is a verified fact of existence. Leaving the mortal coil means potentially moving onto the domain/heaven of your chosen deity, if you have followed their ideals closely enough. If not, you go before the Judge of the Dead, who determines which afterlife, if any, you go to. Memory-less reincarnation is a possibility. So there is little drive to reach immortality unless you are truly enjoying your life.

This means that most of the Scary Old Powers wandering the world tend to have stable, healthy personalities. Relatively speaking.

They may not be particularly nice, but they are not likely to be actively malicious, because that too would warp them. This is about where most end their major growth, though most will still slowly grow in power and skill by broadening their scope of power. Getting beyond here requires more than powerful legends, it requires the deliberate cultivation of faith, which includes shaping the faith into a cohesive identity that is compatible with who you are.

This is the path toward godhood. It is also one of the few actions that enable the existing gods to directly intervene with a heavy hand, if they choose, and it is also something they would all be immediately aware of. They are not offended by the 'hubris' of ascent, but they do have standards. There are no gods of murder or torture or anything of the like, because the existing gods won't allow the ascent of anyone who has the potential to develop that sort of portfolio.

If you need to pray for success in an attempt to murder someone, you need to find a god who finds your motivations to be sufficient to justify the act. While the courts might not weigh in favor of an abused wife poisoning her husband, the gods might (depending on the situation and the god).

Back to ascension: There is no finite tribulation of lightning or other such nonsense. If they decide to remove you, a sufficiently powerful avatar shows up and your life ends and your soul is handed over to the Judge of the Dead. There is no way of being powerful enough to win. You *might* be able to set up a scenario where the cost in other lives might make the gods pause, but that will not last long enough to complete ascension. Worst case scenario: Time freezes, everything with a soul or spirit that is not-you is transferred to a nigh-identical copy of the planet (minus anything else they don't want, like say, wards or traps), you and the original planet are removed from existence, then new planet is moved into place, given the correct orientation and momentum, and then time is resumed.

This is very, very heavy handed. I doubt that it has ever been needed. But the most powerful of the gods can do stuff like that, and it would not even count as significant effort. They just aren't supposed to interfere with the free will of mortals that much, so it truly has to be necessary.

However, assuming a divine candidate does not get removed (and really, most do not), then there are simply stages of quasi-deity, demi-deity, local-deity, lesser-deity, and so on to move through. These are not riveting tails of might and heroics. They are the slow accumulation of faith combined with the actualization of the sort of god you want to be. A potential god of protection needs to act as a protector for a large enough population for a long enough period of time to cement the idea of them as such into the universe.

And I rambled on longer than intended. But I think you can at least get a good idea of where I have melded xianxia concepts into more western ideas of growth in power, growth of the self, growth of faith, etc.

That is the most amazing interpretation I’ve read. It kinda makes sense and fits like a glove. Thank you for wisdom.

 

[Grizzly18]

There's a few solid counter-examples. Dungeon Crawl Classics has a mega-module mixing the two. TSR Dungeon module S-3: Expedition to the Barrier Peaks mixed the two. And then there's this little series of movies, comic books, and television shows that managed to merge sci-fi, fantasy and even wu-xia elements, maybe you've heard of it somewhere, under the name "Star Wars"?

Except Star Wars doesn't have wu-xia elements unless you count meditation which isn't xiaxian specific. The Force is "mystical" but has consistently referred to as an energy field that binds the galaxy and everyone in it together so again fantasy maybe. And while the midiclorian thing might be grumbled about it is still canon last time I checked which would probably be sci-fi. So yes Star Wars has fantasy and sci fi elements but nobody would call it perfectly blended which is why I specified flawlessly I never said it couldn't happen just that it doesn't work together very well unless very carefully written.

 

[CharlesEBrown]

Except Star Wars doesn't have wu-xia elements unless you count meditation which isn't xiaxian specific. The Force is "mystical" but has consistently referred to as an energy field that binds the galaxy and everyone in it together so again fantasy maybe. And while the midiclorian thing might be grumbled about it is still canon last time I checked which would probably be sci-fi. So yes Star Wars has fantasy and sci fi elements but nobody would call it perfectly blended which is why I specified flawlessly I never said it couldn't happen just that it doesn't work together very well unless very carefully written.

The martial arts fight scenes, at least in the "prequel trilogy" are pure wire-fu (except for Yoda who is CGI-fu) - and thus my mention of Wu-Xia (the 'cinematic version' of Xianxia)