Description questions for everyone

Tempokai

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A) Can you explain why one kind of description works in action-adventure, and fails in romance?

B) Can you choose to withhold visual detail to emphasize emotion instead without losing momentum?

C) Can you describe a place that reveals character without mentioning a single emotion?

If you can or why you can't, write it down here how you can do it. I'll write my own thoughts tomorrow, I want to see how others will answer these questions.
 

FieryLou

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If Master Tempokai knows no answer, who am I to pretend?
 
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A) I can't really think of anything for this. I don't know.

B) I think you can do it. Emphasizing emotions can still be something subtle. You can keep the momentum of the story going with small ticks of emotions that doesn't break the flow.

C) Yes, I definitely think you can do this. You can paint an emotional picture of a person with their surroundings. If someone's surroundings are full of garbage and everything is unkempt, for example, you can paint a picture of a depressed person. Or if a person is surrounded by a field of flowers and basking in the sun, you can paint a picture of a content person.
 

RepresentingWrath

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A) I can't really think of anything for this. I don't know.

B) I think you can do it. Emphasizing emotions can still be something subtle. You can keep the momentum of the story going with small ticks of emotions that doesn't break the flow.

C) Yes, I definitely think you can do this. You can paint an emotional picture of a person with their surroundings. If someone's surroundings are full of garbage and everything is unkempt, for example, you can paint a picture of a depressed person. Or if a person is surrounded by a field of flowers and basking in the sun, you can paint a picture of a content person.
Man, you are so smart! I couldn't come up with a single answer, yet you got three? Damn, you are so much smarter than I am.
 

Our_Lady_in_Twilight

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For C, I think the rythmn you use to describe a scene can convey a sense of the character's emotion. For example, I recently did a scene where the environment was described in really short, choppy sentences to give a sense that the MC was feeling anxious and restless, nothing was holding their attention for very long.
 

Spacerunner357

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A) Can you explain why one kind of description works in action-adventure, and fails in romance?

B) Can you choose to withhold visual detail to emphasize emotion instead without losing momentum?

C) Can you describe a place that reveals character without mentioning a single emotion?

If you can or why you can't, write it down here how you can do it. I'll write my own thoughts tomorrow, I want to see how others will answer these questions.
All of them I the Romance because If you have heavy details it can take away from the moment for example having the fight be ing explained with actions and beautiful colors will mot work and will work depending on the Senareo .
 

Cipiteca396

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A) Can you explain why one kind of description works in action-adventure, and fails in romance?
For some reason, I have a mental image of a band of 'heroes' busting through a door with strangely shaped 'swords', shouting and half naked; super imposed over the scene of a knight and a princess cuddling in a pool of steaming dragon's blood.
 
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A) Can you explain why one kind of description works in action-adventure, and fails in romance?
I can't say why, because I don't think there is a kind of description that works in one and not in another....
Can you give an example of a kind of description that works in action-adventure, and fails in romance

Can you choose to withhold visual detail to emphasize emotion instead without losing momentum?
You can... but I imagine emphasising the visual detail that is related to the action/emotion is a better choice. I don't know if withhold is the right word, but "focus" when you look at something, one inevitably looks away from something else(?) it's not withholding,g right?

Can you describe a place that reveals character without mentioning a single emotion?
Sure, I think. One can convey "character" with action or just implication.
 

CarburetorThompson

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Action adventure readers are reading for action and adventure. The whole premises of the genre is movement, as such (and especially with the light novel audience) you cannot afford to really go all out on prose. The readers care about what is happening, and what is going to happen, they don’t necessarily want to know the minutia because that slows things down.

Something I don’t see emphasized enough in writing action is that there is two chronologies that matter, the time in which events transpire in the book, and the time it takes to read those events. This is why it can feel unnatural for a character to have a two page monologue when a bullet is inches away from impacting their face. You need to balance the feeling of speed, between the events in the world and time it takes a reader to pass through them. Of course there is plenty of slow moments in these stories, and that is naturally where the prose and descriptions will be more developed, but by the nature of the story it will have more fluidity, more momentum and movement then a pure romance.

In a pure romance story the main fulcrum is not on movement, but on emotional development. As such you have the liberty to slow down and express things in a greater detail. Things that may be unimportant to an action centered plot, things like scenery, light, meaningful scents, can be important for properly expressing emotions, something in which a romance story will spend greater time expressing in detail.

Of course these are generalizations. A good action adventure writer knows when to express things in detail, and a good romance writer will know when to write with speed. It just comes down to how much of it you’ll expect to see I guess.

As for the other ones, some one else can do those.
 

lambenttyto

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A) Can you explain why one kind of description works in action-adventure, and fails in romance?

B) Can you choose to withhold visual detail to emphasize emotion instead without losing momentum?

C) Can you describe a place that reveals character without mentioning a single emotion?
Description evokes a sense of place and can carry over emotion, so action adventure is the wrong tone for a romance novel, but that's not to say a romance novel can't also be an action adventure story. The lines can get quite fuzzy, and there's no "wrong way" per say, you just want to descrie things that best suit the tone of your story.

Of course, sometimes visual details aren't very necessary at all, there are five senses, and then character thought and metaphor to evoke emotion and in the right kind of scene, this is probably preferable than a bunch of visual description.

Of course I can describe a place that reveal character. This one is easy. A man's house with photos of his dead wife all over the place and penned love letters that are recent tells a very different story than a man who doesn't have his dead wife's effects laying around, and that's just a tiny example off the top of my head.

But there's no one size fits all for any of your questions. As a writer you need to adapt to the scene and the story you're telling and change the emotional beat and how you approach it depending on every scene.
 

CharlesEBrown

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A) Can you explain why one kind of description works in action-adventure, and fails in romance?
It is not so much that one type works and one doesn't, it's that some types work BETTER in one type of story than in another. The important thing is tone - maintain the right tone and you'll (usually) do the descriptions you need for the type of story you're writing.
Then again, I'm someone who tends to mix these two together so maybe I'm way off...
B) Can you choose to withhold visual detail to emphasize emotion instead without losing momentum?
Yes - there are other senses, and some are more innately tied to emotion (smell, hearing, even touch) than sight. Focus on them (sometimes that can actually hasten the scene, as delineating visual details can sometimes get in the way).
Heck, John Byrne and Frank Miller showed this in a more visual medium (comic books, in Alpha Flight and Daredevil, respectively) - Byrne did most of an issue of Alpha Flight in a snowstorm and all you got were sound effects and dialogue. For that matter, the Demon Bear saga of New Mutants had such surreal artwork that it was mostly superfluous to the emotions (mostly fear and horror) of the story.
C) Can you describe a place that reveals character without mentioning a single emotion?
I'm not sure *I* can, at least not well, but I'm sure there are, at the very least, horror writers capable of doing this. Heck, I think in The Haunting of Hill House, Shirley Jackson pulled this off a few times but it's been so long since I read it I'm not 100% sure.
 

miyoga

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B) Can you choose to withhold visual detail to emphasize emotion instead without losing momentum?

C) Can you describe a place that reveals character without mentioning a single emotion?
Not gonna try A.

B) I think it's absolutely possible. If you can write like a psychopath (meaning devoid of emotion) and only emphasize the visual, then it's absolutely possible to write the opposite. The important thing is that you need to laser-focus down to that individual's state of mind. As an omniscient narrator, it should be relatively easy to do this. Then again, I haven't tried it myself...yet.

C) I think the answer here, again, comes down to psycopathic analysis. Take away all emotion and you're left with a more detailed description of something or someone since clinical psychopathy is denoted by not being able to feel emotions (either at all or in the same way that the majority of society experiences them.
 

Fairemont

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I got my ass whooped in a review the other day for not describing scenes well enough, so I apparently am not qualified to answer this.

However...

A.) This is likely due to the readers you're drawing with the genre. I watch TV shows with my mom and we do not usually like what the other does, because she wants a very different type of story and setting than I like.

B.) Describing scenes, characters, etc., is only important if it serves a purpose at the time. Yoy can get away with not using descriptions for quite a while. Some readers will find it odd if you dont describe anything at all.

C.) Describe a character via the scene setting without referencing emotion? Very doable. Might be a more advanced technique, though. Best examples are creating a scene that is generated by a particular type of individual.
 

Tempokai

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Before I answer those questions, I'll say that these questions are trick ones. Unfortunately, you all failed to go deeper into each question. Sure, they're all valid responses, but all of them are dancing around the true questions I asked. These questions are all meta. I'll start with this one.

A) Can you explain why one kind of description works in action-adventure, and fails in romance?

Or, do you understand genre as a rhetorical contract between author and reader, delivered through tone, enforced by context, and expressed through the micro-choices of description?

Genre is a collection of tones that the reader expects in the story. You deliver those tones in a synopsis and build context in which the reader knows they're reading either action-adventure, slice-of-life, romance, whatever. By mashing those tones from different genres, you get the subgenre on which your story is built. This makes your story unique. But how does it correlate to this question, you might ask? I'll say that storytelling is communication. In other words, genre = tone as interpreted through context.

And description is the paintbrush with which that tone is delivered.

You, as an author, make the context of your story. Let's say you made it primarily action-adventure. The reader, inferring that the story is AA from the context, expects the usual fighting, going places, doing things, and worldbuilding. The reader primes himself to see the language game of action-adventure occur, and therefore any tonal mismatch will make it jarring. The reader does not expect the hero who just slayed hundreds of evil goblins to suddenly cry because one goblin looked at him cute. This is called a tonal mismatch, and it makes the story lose coherence.

Also, if you still don't understand what "description" means, it's anything that the narrator chooses to emphasize in that current context—either to further the story or explain things so the reader can understand what is happening. This description divides into two types: external and internal.

External description is what happens outside of the MC, be it showing off items, actions taken, what others did—i.e., anything that gives the story momentum. In other words, kinetic energy, plot pusher. Internal is the subjective thoughts, character-to-character interaction with words (not fists), and, importantly, emotion.

In action-adventure, you can have however many external descriptions you want, because the language game of the action-adventure genre you and the reader agreed upon makes that coherent in that context. Internal description takes the backseat to the external, because people are here to see someone getting punched and punching back. In romance, it's all about internal description, because you're trying to connect two dummies together while making it coherent. Sure, external description could be dominant, but the language game of the romance genre is all about how that makes the reader feel about the things that are happening.

When you use external description in romance—let's say the hero punches the demon queen—you make the context internal still, to show that the hero is punching her because she cheated. The emphasis is on the internal description.

When you use internal description in action-adventure—let's say the hero uncovers the true meaning of the thing they've wanted the most and it sucks—you still link it to the external context, to the adventure itself, to make the external context richer. The emphasis here is still on the external description.

And all of that is connected to tone. If you can't swap out the tone to fit the context without violating internal logic, you suck at describing things. That's why action-adventure romance stories exist, and they often suck: because they either focus on external description or internal as their main one. It either becomes too action-heavy, diminishing romance, or romance-heavy, diminishing action. They want the best of both worlds, not knowing that you can't really merge them seamlessly together unless you're a great storyteller.

And with that one question, I asked three:
  1. Do you know how communication works in a narrative? Not just "I said, you heard," but "I implied, and you inferred." Most of you failed here, because you didn't even think of a reader on the other side.
  2. Do you know what your reader thinks they’re reading? Genre as expectation. If you don’t know what “flavor” you’re giving the reader, you can’t keep it consistent. Some of you almost got there.
  3. Do you know how every description changes the genre dialect you’re speaking in? Every line of description alters the genre-tonal contract, and sadly only Thompson got it right.

B) Can you choose to withhold visual detail to emphasize emotion instead without losing momentum?

Or, can you bend the reader’s emotional trajectory using only narrative voice and selective perception?

As I previously discussed, description is divided into two: internal/external. I asked how you can further plot only using internal description. Sounds hard, right? You need to write in the POV of a character and not make it boring. But it's not that hard, because you already have what you need: emotion, dialogue, and subjectivity. Who manages all of that? The narrator.

The narrator is the voice that tells the story. He controls what is shown, what is said, and how it is interpreted to the reader. Everyone knows that. But who controls the narrator? You. Or rather, the ghostly version of you, called the implied author. You see, the reader has no you sitting in the room, monologuing about the story like an unhinged person. No, there's only the narrator and the reader who is reading what the narrator is saying. And from what the narrator says, the reader creates a construct of you inside their mind, called the implied author. That implied author—the voice behind the narrator—is what makes all the decisions about the tone, context, and how it is delivered to the reader.

So, to deliver emotion without losing momentum is about knowing how to weaponize your voice to make an impression on the reader through the narrator. Empathy, understanding of context, and persuasion are your friends. You basically show off your rizz (charisma) to make the story truly work with your own voice. This is why villainess shoujo stories work despite having no external plot happening at all. It's all about understanding the feeling of the narrator and making the reader have empathy with her. This is where Shinji in The End Of Evangelion going insane goes hard without stopping—despite the visual being a void where nothing happens.

This question was about:
  1. Do you understand the narrator as a construct—and not as a neutral camera floating around? Everyone focused on the immediate, about showing, not telling, yadda yadda, not thinking about long-term consequences.
  2. Do you realize you are manipulating the narrator to manipulate the reader? No one.
This question wasn't about the immediate. It was about knowing that you are trying to manipulate a reader to have a specific emotion using a narrator. Knowing that you know that you are manipulating the emotions of the reader was the real question.

C) Can you describe a place that reveals character without mentioning a single emotion?

Or, can you use subtext—aka using external description to write internal description?

This is just subtext. Any respectable author knows how to write one. As some of you had pointed out: show a haphazard room and voila, subtext. That's surface-level subtext. But what is subtext? It's making the reader think—to find the real emotional core, the real context, through the external description. Basically, make the readers think hard enough for them to make speculations, for them to have their own interpretation of the context. It's using their empathy and curiosity against them.

The most basic subtext is the hero's partner saying "I'm fine," cracking her knuckles, while you as a reader know she's not fine at all. You don't know what the author had cooked with that character, but you can take the previous context (let's say she found out he was having an affair with a demon queen from before), and boom, you now have a subtext that is logically coherent in the story. Or maybe she's just angry because the hero forgot about their anniversary—and boom, another subtext that makes sense. Whatever. What that means is that you, as an author, need to trust the reader to infer the emotion you want to show without showing it, to make the reader feel that emotional vacuum and insert their emotion into it—to make it meaningful, making the reader closer to the story, making the reader continue reading your story.

Basically, subtext is the emotional void the reader can see and can put the puzzle together and fill that hollow gap with the meaning the reader himself has constructed. To use subtext well is to know when to be silent emotionally and trust the readers that they'll fill that gap of trust. Like they trust you to deliver the story, you trust them to think about your story. This is a rhetorical contract that subtext makes full use of.

There are no hidden questions—only whether you know what subtext even is. No one name-dropped it, despite it being an intermediate+ technique. Sad.

If you read this all, thank you for coming to my late-night anti-TED Talk, lmao. I thought I would find better answers, but all I got were things that work instinctively and semi-logically, never systematically. Whatever.
 
D

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Man, you are so smart! I couldn't come up with a single answer, yet you got three? Damn, you are so much smarter than I am.
I told you. Only stupid people answer questions they don't know the answer to. AKA you are smarter than me.
 

Aurimaz

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My answer could be limited by my understanding of nuances in the English language, but I believe I comprehend your questions correctly.
(Or, at least, the text in your questions...)
And since you didn't give any specifics, I'm taking this as a philosophy exercise.

A) Can you explain why one kind of description works in action-adventure and fails in romance?

Either you have in mind one specific description, that is purposefully written for action-adventure alone, or the author you're targeting is too inexperienced to use that TYPE of description in a romance setting. In reality, all types of descriptions could work in both action AND romance. It depends on how capable a writer is in breaking the rules. As you probably know, there are unwritten rules in storytelling - you're obviously basing your questions on them. So, by those rules, some types of descriptions don't work because the reader follows those same rules and isn't expecting them to work.
However, you can break all those rules if you know how. Along with the readers' perception of those rules. It's not the question of why, but how.

B) Can you choose to withhold visual detail to emphasize emotion instead without losing momentum?

That is way too specific and also weirdly formulated. I'm afraid my English isn't enough to determine if you made a mistake formulating the question, or if the question really should be that way. So, no answer to that.

C) Can you describe a place that reveals character without mentioning a single emotion?

Again, unclear formulation, but in a different way. Revealing a character and revealing a character's emotions aren't the same.

Revealing the traits of a character is somewhat easy through physical space. It doesn't require mentioning emotions. Scratches on the walls, furniture, books, colors, the order or disorder of things - everything works.

Revealing emotions requires shifting from physical to a more exotic plane. A subconscious one, for example. Though an experienced writer probably could pull the stunt in a physical space, too, in some creative way.
As I said before, there are unwritten rules, but also the rule-breakers. The hard part is to convince the reader without using a baseball bat.
 
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