The Last to Comment Wins

JayMark

It's Not Easy Being Nobody, But Somebody Has To.
Joined
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I'm going to write something good.
It will come only from the animal within.
It may never earn dime.
It may never get attention.
It certainly won't be prefect.
But I will be able to look back on it and say,
That was a fun journey.

Jay Mark
 

FieryLou

Phoeperor of the Phoenix Race.
Joined
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63
winning by winning against the winner who won against those who won before.
 

Tempokai

The Overworked One
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Nov 16, 2021
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I'm winning currently by seeing yet another pure LLM generated story that wasn't edited
 

JayMark

It's Not Easy Being Nobody, But Somebody Has To.
Joined
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Messages
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winning by winning against the winner who won against those who won before.
youre-winner-v0-tfu37ikbzgea1.jpg
 

Tempokai

The Overworked One
Joined
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Messages
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Ah, invoking Nelson Goodman, the philosopher who once said, "Reality is what we construct from the language we use to describe it", and then had the gall to mean it.


Now, you're asking: What would Goodman—master of epistemological relativism, constructivism, and semantic tightrope walking—have said about the epistemology of the literary war crime known as Invisible Dragon?


Well, grab your ontological seatbelt and hold on to your inferential syntax, because Goodman would’ve eaten this thing alive... and loved it. Let’s explore how.




I. Worldmaking and the Invisible Dragon: A Match Made in Semiotic Hell


Goodman’s central epistemological project can be boiled down to one word: worldmaking.


“We make worlds by making versions.”

And oh boy, does Invisible Dragon make a version. Not just a version—a fever-dream kaleidoscope of incompatible realities, smashed together with the emotional stability of a wet ferret on espresso.


According to Goodman, there is no one correct version of the world. Instead, there are multiple legitimate descriptions, each forming its own coherent (or not-so-coherent) world.


Invisible Dragon, with its typos, contradictions, and fourth-wall obliterations, is not a bad version of the world.


It’s just a radically different one.


A Goodmanian would say:


“Is this world internally consistent? Is it self-coherent? Does it follow its own rules, no matter how insane?”

Yes. Even if those rules are:


  • Spelling is optional
  • Power levels are exponential functions of boredom
  • Romance happens via invisibility and emotional abuse
  • Death is reversible unless it’s narratively inconvenient

Therefore, Goodman would conclude: this is a legitimate constructed world.


Aesthetically revolting? Sure. Epistemologically invalid? Not at all.




II. Syntax as Epistemic Filter: The Typos as World-Generating Tools


In Ways of Worldmaking, Goodman notes that the language we use doesn't just describe a world—it creates one.


Which means, crucially, that the endless typographical atrocities in Invisible Dragon aren’t errors. They’re linguistic tools.


The constant spelling chaos, the malformed grammar, the refusal to acknowledge punctuation as a real concept—these aren’t bugs.


They’re the syntax of a new world.


Goodman would say:


“Languages are symbol systems. This story uses a different one. It has its own rules, and those rules must be judged internally.”

If a world says “Continuu” is correct, then Continuu is correct. If the word “heh” carries the weight of an emotional truth bomb, then “heh” is a legitimate epistemic token.


Goodman would smirk (probably in that deeply academic way that feels like a slap) and say:


“You’re not reading bad writing. You’re learning a foreign world syntax in real-time.”



III. Projectibility and the Dragon’s Power


Let’s get down to Goodman’s concept of projectibility—the idea that we don’t just look at patterns in data, we project concepts from our current world onto future expectations.


In Invisible Dragon, every new chapter violates all projectibility.


You think the dragon is already too strong? Nope, next chapter he becomes ten billion universes strong with one pinky twitch.


You think you understand who the villain is? Colbob appears. Then 600 lords. Then the protagonist's brother named Invisivisible Dragon shows up with self-destruction evasion.


It’s as if Goodman’s entire philosophical framework were taken behind the shed and shot by a twelve-year-old with a laser cannon made of plot twists.


But here’s the kicker: Goodman was all about choosing which predicates we allow to guide future inferences. In other words: which terms are “projectible”?


In a Goodmanian lens, Invisible Dragon plays with this directly. Every time you think a trait like “strong,” “dead,” or “defeated” has a consistent meaning—it changes. It violates standard projectibility, but within its own world, the violations are expected.


Therefore, the terms are projectible within their absurd context.


He would look at “1/999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 of his power” and say:


“That’s just a term in a symbolic system. You’re assuming it’s nonsense because you’re forcing it into your own linguistic framework. Try harder.”



IV. Rightness of Representation: Or, the Dragon is Real Enough


Goodman makes a crucial distinction between truth and rightness of representation.


A representation (say, a painting of a duck) is not “true” or “false.” Instead, it’s right or wrong depending on the rules of the representational system.


Apply this to Invisible Dragon:


  • Is it “true” that Colbob destroyed 300 universes with his fingernail? No. Obviously.
  • Is it “right,” in the internal system of Invisible Dragon? Absolutely.

Goodman’s epistemology doesn’t care about truth in the naïve sense. It cares about coherence within a symbolic system. Invisible Dragon operates with its own logic, its own idioms, its own narrative physics.


So when it says:


“The invisible dragon ran about 8888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888777777777777777777778 light years in 0.0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001 seconds”

You say: “That’s absurd.”


Goodman says: “That’s representationally right—within the Dragonverse.”




V. Aesthetics and the Tyranny of Taste


Goodman also dabbled deeply in aesthetics. And I guarantee, if someone whined, “But Invisible Dragon is ugly!” he’d roll his eyes into another dimension.


He would ask:


“Ugly by what standard?”

If your standard is Strunk and White, then yes—it’s a war crime. But if your standard is expressive potency, symbolic invention, and genre-defying form, then Invisible Dragon becomes a kind of outsider art.


It’s the literary equivalent of a Jackson Pollock painting made entirely with glitter glue, mayonnaise, and vengeance.


It breaks all the rules—but Goodman loved systems that create new rules.




TL;DR: Goodman's Epistemological Verdict​


If you dragged Nelson Goodman’s corpse out of philosophical Valhalla and read him Invisible Dragon, here’s what he might say:




"What you call nonsense is a highly structured symbolic world governed by its own internally coherent rules.
The syntax is unconventional. The semantics are wild. The representation is foreign.
But you are merely judging it from your own projectible biases.


This is worldmaking, pure and uncut. And I say: heh."





Would you like me to write a fictional dialogue between Goodman and Invisible Dragon next? Spoiler: it ends with Goodman sighing, "I can’t see you, but I feel seen."
 

Justhetip...

...of the iceberg.
Joined
Sep 9, 2024
Messages
249
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Went down a rabbit hole after seeing that one image, and now I can't be alone in this, I have to share it with you guys too.

The original picture was posted by Tempokai if you're curious, it's called The Great Turn.
Screenshot_20250420-155028.jpg


And it's creator is Alex Grey, a visual artist who's also involved in psychedelics and the usual spiritual stuff.

Here's some other of his works

Screenshot_20250420-154908.jpg
Screenshot_20250420-154636.jpg
Screenshot_20250420-154737.jpg
Screenshot_20250420-154949.jpg
Screenshot_20250420-154615.jpg

PS: Lord, now I have to cleanse my brain, my eyes and my phone with holy water.
 

JayMark

It's Not Easy Being Nobody, But Somebody Has To.
Joined
Jul 31, 2024
Messages
1,644
Points
128
I'd honestly love to make make that *something close to it* a boss some characters have to fight in one of my books but I already have enough trouble keeping readers. Hell, I might doing it anyway. Describing that thing vividly enough to put a picture in a reader's mind will be a nightmare.
 

Macha

{$user.user_title}
Joined
Feb 6, 2021
Messages
888
Points
133
Went down a rabbit hole after seeing that one image, and now I can't be alone in this, I have to share it with you guys too.

The original picture was posted by Tempokai if you're curious, it's called The Great Turn.
View attachment 38081

And it's creator is Alex Grey, a visual artist who's also involved in psychedelics and the usual spiritual stuff.

Here's some other of his works


PS: Lord, now I have to cleanse my brain, my eyes and my phone with holy water.
Bro using AI text to image before it was cool. Alex Grey confirmed time traveler.
 

Shiriru_B

Book binge in progress.
Joined
Nov 1, 2020
Messages
356
Points
133
Ughh. Wrong moments to have a good imagination.
.... Understandable also I'm trying to think how would this function realistically and I would think one of the heads would be a fake, like a centipede, also doesn't help how it would look like if it's digestive system functioned like a proper digestive system....
 
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JayMark

It's Not Easy Being Nobody, But Somebody Has To.
Joined
Jul 31, 2024
Messages
1,644
Points
128
.... Understandable also I'm trying to think how would this function realistically and I would think one of the heads would be a fake like a centipede, also doesn't help how it would look like if it's digestive system functioned like a proper digestive system....
Oh that's easy, shared Anus. Like catdog. One of the heads needn't be fake. but could be.
 
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