Concept of a Story: A Writer's Perspective

[Story_Marc]

It’s called a movie

Movies are written with screenplays, which require text...

 

[CharlesEBrown]

Sometimes text becomes minimal—like in song lyrics. Just imagine how little text there is in a song and how much it needs to convey! Could it be that literature might also reduce its reliance on text, especially with the presence of music and video?

No - song was probably used as a mnemonic enhancer to recall words, and evolved into a separate art form from literature or storytelling. They can cross back over, and there are some stories told entirely in song (not just operas), as well as some stories that incorporate music and song (perhaps the most infamous example being Finnegan's Wake; though a more generally accessible example would be Lord of the Rings).

Just as radio did not replace the stage, television did not replace radio, etc. they learn to augment each other, become distinct art forms that may occasionally cross over. Pure text may become less popular (as happened with television v. radio) but it will always be there (even if Video DID kill the radio star...).

 

[Placeholder]

> Today, literature is undergoing significant transformations. Now, it's possible to incorporate images, videos, and sound into storytelling. How relevant is text in this context? Could it be taking a backseat in modern literature?

Eh. Literature used to be plays and bardic/Homeric performances. Worthy, and worth analyzing/being catty about.

That said, video weenies are contemptuous and arrogant when they argue that every comic book is better and superior as a movie, or that hot take videos and tweets are better than blogged essays.

I don't need moving pictures interleaved with the text I'm reading. I don't need Chrisp Rat to simper and mug at the camera for me in some video vaguely or closely based on a favorite book.

 

[CharlesEBrown]

Movies are written with screenplays, which require text...

I don't know - I've seen some that didn't seem to use any... :D

(Well, there sort of is a trilogy that kind of did not, come to think of it - the Quatsi trilogy: Koyaanisqatsi - which I have seen - and the sequels that I have not Powaqqatsi (1988) and Naqoyqatsi (2002); and even the first one used a very few words, both the title, and a black screen at the end with a list of Hopi prophecies that matched events of the 20th Century)

 

[Corty]

He can't say more, since it was me who said his paragraphs are too long.

You were just the first

Thank you for sharing your perspective! I understand that this topic can evoke strong feelings, especially among those who value traditional literature. My goal here isn’t to diminish the importance of text but rather to explore how other media, such as audio and video, might influence the perception of literary works. You may feel that such changes are undesirable, but they could reflect the evolution of contemporary needs and technology. I’d love to hear what you think about the potential of combining traditional text with new formats!

It isn't evolution; it is devolution. As Jeff Goldblum said in Jurassic Park:

You are so preoccupied with whether or not you could that you don’t stop to think if you should.

 

[StoneInky]

It isn't evolution; it is devolution. As Jeff Goldblum said in Jurassic Park:

You are so preoccupied with whether or not you could that you don’t stop to think if you should.

And so the artists, musicians and dancers sob.

 

[Puji-Maki]

Today, literature is undergoing significant transformations. Now, it's possible to incorporate images, videos, and sound into storytelling. How relevant is text in this context? Could it be taking a backseat in modern literature?

The best I can think of is Visual Novel. If that's what you're looking for.

 

[Tempokai]

Today, literature is undergoing significant transformations. Now, it's possible to incorporate images, videos, and sound into storytelling. How relevant is text in this context? Could it be taking a backseat in modern literature?

Wittgenstein famously had said “Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent”, and you are the example where some people need to shut up on things you cannot speak of. What you're trying to propose here is not coherent. A literature without text? Yawn, it already exists. It's called a blank book. What you're trying to say here is not "how relevant is text in storytelling", but "can my brainrot mind sit still for 5 seconds without being bored", and it's just sad.

What you don't realize that language itself is storytelling. It was created for communication, and it functions by trying to deliver information to another human being who understands that mode of communication. It's the most context giving communication mode the people have. This is why people have been in civilization since 10000 BC. If we remove the language, all we have is grunts, pointing things, and sensing.

Sure, you can read manga in raw, without any text. Does this make you understand what is happening? In some sense, yes, you'll see a hero holding sword, slicing a dragon, standing on top of the corpse, and getting a girl. But does this tells you anything? No, it only shows. It shows that something is happening, but you don't have context to it. Language is context. By writing things we understand things fully. Suddenly, with text, it reads that hero you've thought looked heroic was evil, the dragon was good guy because it had saved the world before, and dragon died in trying to save the girl. Context matters, so is the text.

Hell, why I'm just limiting myself to literature? Videos exist, and they tell a story without ever showing a piece of text. It is called video for a reason. Music exists, and it is only uses ears to deliver everything, duh. Hell, maybe even in the future there will be a capsule where the story is only told in smell. You know what connects them all? Text. Language to be exactly. A framework that makes the old canopy in the tree distinguishable in the mind of the watcher of the video. A sound of the water flowing that you can point and say "that's the water flowing sound". A smell of a ink, that you can say inside your mind that it "smells inky".

Language is what makes the storytelling works. If you remove it, you remove everything, and become merely an animal that only comprehends everything by instincts. Text isn’t dying. It’s just evolving to survive the digital zoo. If you are stupid and can not articulate what you're trying to communicate with your question, be silent.

 

[Arkus86]

Today, literature is undergoing significant transformations. Now, it's possible to incorporate images, videos, and sound into storytelling. How relevant is text in this context? Could it be taking a backseat in modern literature?

Let me introduce you to this amazing new concept called comics! And just wait till you hear about those motion-pictures that have been makign waves recently!
And clearly you have never heard of stage plays, including shadow play, tapestries (Bayeux Tapestry), friezes (Trajan's Column), or even cave paintings...

In other words, what you are talking about is not a new concept, not by far. It is an even older form of art than written storytelling, predating even proto-writing by tens of thousands of years. There was always an audience for this type of art and storytelling, and there always will be, but it's not going to replace written word, not anytime soon, despite the huge number of smoothbrains who can't keep their focus for five seconds.

 

[Danja]

The best I can think of is Visual Novel. If that's what you're looking for.

Graphic novel?

 

[CharlesEBrown]

Sure, you can read manga in raw, without any text. Does this make you understand what is happening? In some sense, yes, you'll see a hero holding sword, slicing a dragon, standing on top of the corpse, and getting a girl.

Or you can read Gon - the only text is a sound effect (the character's name - Gon - a miniature Tyrannosaurus Rex). No other text at all.

 

[Placeholder]

>> The best I can think of is Visual Novel. If that's what you're looking for.

> Graphic novel?

Visual novel - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[Golden_Hyde]

>> The best I can think of is Visual Novel. If that's what you're looking for.

> Graphic novel?

Visual novel - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Graphic Novel is as controversial in terms of... the term as some other literary medium that hasn't been a thing for the past few decades.

 

[VitoWay]

Итак, с каждым последующим сообщением мои подозрения стали все более сильны, и это сообщение подтвердило мои подозрения.

Ты, бот? ИИ? GPT или Дипсик?

Если нет, то почему ваши слова в этом формате в стиле LLM? Может быть, вы не говорите по-английски и переводите с помощью ИИ?

А если вы ИИ или бот, каковы ваши цели? Это импровизированный способ извлечения данных для обучения?

PS: Даже в названии темы я определенно использую GPT.

Да, я иногда проверяю свой текст с помощью ИИ, чтобы избежать ошибок и опечаток.
Теперь все так делают???
Но я не бот.)))

PS: Даже в названии темы я определенно использую GPT.

Повороты закруглились, плотные заговоры!

No - song was probably used as a mnemonic enhancer to recall words, and evolved into a separate art form from literature or storytelling. They can cross back over, and there are some stories told entirely in song (not just operas), as well as some stories that incorporate music and song (perhaps the most infamous example being Finnegan's Wake; though a more generally accessible example would be Lord of the Rings).

Just as radio did not replace the stage, television did not replace radio, etc. they learn to augment each other, become distinct art forms that may occasionally cross over. Pure text may become less popular (as happened with television v. radio) but it will always be there (even if Video DID kill the radio star...).

Songs? Yeah, I’ve got some experience writing punk-rock songs (don’t ask about it now—I’ll tell you later, haha))).

What can I say. Yeah. Sometimes music highlights the lyrics—it makes them the core. Other times, it’s the other way around. Like, the music amplifies the effect of the words (if the performer’s good, that is)).

But the absurdity often lies in the fact that four stanzas can pack as much meaning as four whole chapters. That’s the thing—music and the artist's delivery make so many descriptions unnecessary.

You can even take it further—talented actors can be understood even without words (although, strictly speaking, that’s not entirely correct—actors use non-verbal communication).

And this brings us to a philosophical question—what even is a word?

 

[CharlesEBrown]

And this brings us to a philosophical question—what even is a word?

I had a college class that spent a semester working on that concept. A word is a collection of symbols designed to convey a concept or instruction, and is, at its core, a mathematical concept (automata theory)

 

[Justhetip...]

Да, я иногда проверяю свой текст с помощью ИИ, чтобы избежать ошибок и опечаток.
Теперь все так делают???
Но я не бот.)))

PS: Даже в названии темы я определенно использую GPT.



Songs? Yeah, I’ve got some experience writing punk-rock songs (don’t ask about it now—I’ll tell you later, haha))).

What can I say. Yeah. Sometimes music highlights the lyrics—it makes them the core. Other times, it’s the other way around. Like, the music amplifies the effect of the words (if the performer’s good, that is)).

But the absurdity often lies in the fact that four stanzas can pack as much meaning as four whole chapters. That’s the thing—music and the artist's delivery make so many descriptions unnecessary.

You can even take it further—talented actors can be understood even without words (although, strictly speaking, that’s not entirely correct—actors use non-verbal communication).

And this brings us to a philosophical question—what even is a word?

О! Хорошо знать. Вопрос был наполовину в шутку, наполовину всерьез. Твои сообщения были наполнены той стерильной энтузиазмом, который типичен для GPT, вот почему я так подумал.

Я понимаю проверку на ошибки, так как языковой барьер может приводить к таким вещам.

Хотя я немного разочарован, что ты не бот, думал, что вот-вот раскрою большую конспирацию

 

[VitoWay]

Витгенштейн сказал: «О чем нельзя говорить, о том следует молчать», и вы являетесь примером того, что некоторым людям нужно заткнуться, когда речь идет о вещах, о которых нельзя говорить. То, что вы пытаетесь здесь предложить, не связно. Литература без текста? Зевать, она уже существует. Это называется пустой книгой. То, что вы пытаетесь здесь сказать, это не «насколько важен текст в повествовании», а «может ли мой мозг, пораженный гнилью, сидеть спокойно 5 секунд, не скучая», и это просто грустно.

Чего вы не понимаете, так это того, что язык сам по себе является повествованием. Он был создан для общения, и он функционирует, пытаясь донести информацию до другого человека, который понимает этот режим общения. Это наиболее контекстуально дающий режим общения, который есть у людей. Вот почему люди существуют в цивилизации с 10000 года до нашей эры. Если мы уберем язык, все, что у нас останется, это хрюканье, указание на вещи и ощущения.

Конечно, вы можете читать мангу в сыром виде, без текста. Помогает ли это вам понять, что происходит? В каком-то смысле, да, вы увидите героя, держащего меч, разрубающего дракона, стоящего на трупе и получающего девушку. Но говорит ли это вам о чем-нибудь? Нет, это только показывает. Это показывает, что что-то происходит, но у вас нет контекста для этого. Язык — это контекст. Записывая вещи, мы понимаем вещи полностью. Внезапно, с текстом, он читает, что герой, которого вы считали героем, был злым, дракон был хорошим парнем, потому что он спас мир раньше, и дракон погиб, пытаясь спасти девушку. Контекст имеет значение, как и текст.

Черт, почему я ограничиваю себя только литературой? Существуют видео, и они рассказывают историю, не показывая ни единого текста. Видео называется видео не просто так. Существует музыка, и она использует только уши, чтобы донести все, черт возьми. Черт, может быть, даже в будущем будет капсула, где история будет рассказана только запахом. Знаете, что их всех объединяет? Текст. Язык, если быть точным. Каркас, который делает старый навес на дереве различимым в сознании зрителя видео. Звук текущей воды, на который можно указать и сказать: «Это звук текущей воды». Запах чернил, о котором можно сказать в своем сознании, что он «пахнет чернилами».

Язык — это то, что заставляет повествование работать. Если вы уберете его, вы уберете все и станете просто животным, которое все понимает только инстинктами. Текст не умирает. Он просто эволюционирует, чтобы выжить в цифровом зоопарке. Если вы глупы и не можете сформулировать то, что вы пытаетесь сообщить своим вопросом, молчите.

Have you really never seen sign language interpretation for the deaf? ))
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By the way, I agree with you on many things. My pilot concept actually examines the philosophy of words and language. Please don’t take this as advertising.

It would be interesting to talk to you about this further. Perhaps we could create a book together? I’m absolutely serious