am i the only one thinking RR ads are kinda flimsy

[Corty]

No, but we make fun of them regularly on Discord because there are some really cringe ones.

I made one too, but I simply refuse to pay 70$ for an ad campaign on RR

I guess I am an exception then? My story on RR had a rocky start that involved my first review being a 2 star rating, and my overall rating being 3.6. I now have 1500 readers there and a 4.3. I've had my share of actual malice reviews and comments. I reported them and RR took those down in a day, and some accounts have been removed. That said, I never quite made it on the rising stars list, so I can't comment on that.

No, totally the same here. I had an awful start, but by now, I am getting some more sensible comments and ratings, climbing out of the gutter.

I once heard that there is a meta of bullying new books because it lowers the chance that they would gain traction, helping already tracking books and authors to stay closer to the fire. Or something like that. I have no proof of that, though.

 

[Tyranomaster]

The vast majority of ads on RR are so low-effort it's almost funny, and a significant part is just obvious bait. I can never seriously treat a story which advertises itself with paint-drawn stick figures.

Yeah, most ads fall into two categories.

1. A kid with more money than sense thinks that ads are magic and any advertisement at all is helpful. While technically true, the monetary efficiency is abysmal.

2. Someone who thinks high click through rate means good advertising. These are usually the very bait, borderline porn ads. These cause stories to tank because they get high click through and negative ratings.

All my ads were honest, and targetted the kind of audience who would enjoy my story. I don't want everyone to click, I want people who want to read it to click, and others to ignore it. Seems to have worked well so far.

 

[beast_regards]

Because you've established a reader base through perserverence of quality writing, your next work might even make RS if you play your cards right. But ughhhh, review swaps... I can't...

I did over eighty review swaps in my time on the Royal Road. They are the suicide pact, another fraud within the heavily rigged system. Some people complain when the writers exchange their five-star rating, but in fact, they are all shooting themselves in the foot, as the algorithm is so heavily rigged and bot fed there couldn't be ever enough five-stars received in the way. They don't help. They make things worse. Amazon contracted writers that make their guides, and make you jump through the flaming hoops like the demented seal in the circus, don't tell you that you would be better off not doing any swap at all as you could, and will, be down voted faster than you could make them.

 

[Lysander_Works]

I honestly wonder if RR ads are made by the authors, cause it looks like AI generated slop most of the time. As someone who never tired it, can't really comment on it much.

 

[Tyranomaster]

I did over eighty review swaps in my time on the Royal Road. They are the suicide pact, another fraud within the heavily rigged system. Some people complain when the writers exchange their five-star rating, but in fact, they are all shooting themselves in the foot, as the algorithm is so heavily rigged and bot fed there couldn't be ever enough five-stars received in the way. They don't help. They make things worse. Amazon contracted writers that make their guides, and make you jump through the flaming hoops like the demented seal in the circus, don't tell you that you would be better off not doing any swap at all as you could, and will, be down voted faster than you could make them.

I think there are plenty of reasons to dislike royal road, as evidenced by the fact I spend most of my time on SH instead. This reads like sour grapes though.

The RR community has different genre preferences than SH. If that is your gripe, then say it. I haven't ever seen evidence of botting or rigging. RR downweights review swaps in their algorithms. My understanding was that change happened a while ago, but there is still a culture of doing it even though the benefit is largely gone.

I honestly wonder if RR ads are made by the authors, cause it looks like AI generated slop most of the time. As someone who never tired it, can't really comment on it much.

The users might ai generate their images, but the rr ad process is just "upload your image and provide a link to where it should go". Every ad someone chose to put up.

 

[beast_regards]

The RR community has different genre preferences than SH.

I don't care what MJ's genre preferences are.

I am fully comfortable with the fact I would get 10% followers that the commercial writers get.

I am even comfortable getting 1% of their followers because writing is not my job; I am not formally trained or schooled in it either. It is something I do in the free time; I am not interested in any competition, or ratings, or add, or other nonsense.

What I am not comfortable with is jumping through the hoops like the circus animal to somehow catch up with the people with money I don't have, and get swatted with their bot accounts, and unforgivable algorithm because lazy moderation got greedy and wants to make even more money than they already get.

 

[abu_nur]

The vast majority of ads on RR are so low-effort it's almost funny, and a significant part is just obvious bait. I can never seriously treat a story which advertises itself with paint-drawn stick figures.

IK RIGHT, the ads is either just ai pics, some lines from a random scene in the story, or a click bait for kids (idk if any kids read online novels tho, not in normal cases)

 

[beast_regards]

IK RIGHT, the ads is either just ai pics, some lines from a random scene in the story, or a click bait for kids (idk if any kids read online novels tho, not in normal cases)

The "kids" is the favourite excuse of the Royal Road moderation.

If they don't want to do something, they say their audience is just kids and they don't have to obey what the kids say. Of course, "just kids" never prevented their mods from taking money for letting kids posting stick figures online, but, hey ... there is one saying: Money doesn't stink.

 

[Tyranomaster]

I don't care what MJ's genre preferences are.

I am fully comfortable with the fact I would get 10% followers that the commercial writers get.

I am even comfortable getting 1% of their followers because writing is not my job; I am not formally trained or schooled in it either. It is something I do in the free time; I am not interested in any competition, or ratings, or add, or other nonsense.

What I am not comfortable with is jumping through the hoops like the circus animal to somehow catch up with the people with money I don't have, and get swatted with their bot accounts, and unforgivable algorithm because lazy moderation got greedy and wants to make even more money than they already get.

I jumped through no hoops. I didn't put money in from outside, all the ad money came from existing patreon income, and was reinvested into ads to increase that income stream. I've only ever had very prompt moderation help for things that were actually against the guidelines, and I've never seen any evidence of bot account swarming. I don't find the algorithm to be unforgiving, and I was growing my audience fine without the ads, I only used them to speed the process up.

I feel like you're the kind of person to say, "This person disagreed with my opinion, and others agreed with them, therefore, they literally aren't human and are bots, because a real human would agree with me." Which is just not true. I've had plenty of people comment how they want X/Y/Z to happen, and have left bad ratings or reviews. My story isn't for them, and I don't let it bother me. They aren't bots, they're just people who wish the story was something it isn't. Not my problem.

You've got a chip on your shoulder. They didn't want to allow your content because it was too lewd. Ok. I get that. That's a valid complaint. Making up bullshit because of that is lame. Their system favors brand new and heavily established stories and buries finished stories that are middle of the pack. That's a fine complaint. I'd argue that those are the two things readers want, and that finished stories getting views doesn't really help authors to make any money (since you can't monetize the web novel any longer), as anyone who leaves a finished novel up on a website could easily take it down and sell it on Amazon KDP, so it's fine to downrank those stories, but that's my opinion.

Another very valid complaint: Their forums aren't helpful, and there is a lot of misinformation related to succeeding, as well as people tend to drag each other down there, rather than help.

Yet Another valid complaint: Their author interaction system is heavily gamified to encourage both readers and authors to comment meaninglessly, and encourages people to review stories when they really have no business doing so. I think it's dumb that this is the case. Yet people on SH complain constantly about not getting enough reader interaction, so maybe it's valid to do this.

There are a dozen valid reasons to be mad at RR. Your reasons are either petty, or fabricated, which is ridiculous. Again, they just reek of sour grapes.

 

[abu_nur]

No, but we make fun of them regularly on Discord because there are some really cringe ones.

I made one too, but I simply refuse to pay 70$ for an ad campaign on RR

View attachment 34759

No, totally the same here. I had an awful start, but by now, I am getting some more sensible comments and ratings, climbing out of the gutter.

I once heard that there is a meta of bullying new books because it lowers the chance that they would gain traction, helping already tracking books and authors to stay closer to the fire. Or something like that. I have no proof of that, though.

oh where are yall talking on discord? is there like an SH server?

The "kids" is the favourite excuse of the Royal Road moderation.

If they don't want to do something, they say their audience is just kids and they don't have to obey what the kids say. Of course, "just kids" never prevented their mods from taking money for letting kids posting stick figures online, but, hey ... there is one saying: Money doesn't stink.

i can see how this turns. good thing i am maining on SH

 

[Corty]

oh where are yall talking on discord? is there like an SH server?

There is an official SH discord, but I'm on a different one, links should be in my signature.

 

[beast_regards]

I feel like you're the kind of person to say, "This person disagreed with my opinion, and others agreed with them, therefore, they literally aren't human and are bots, because a real human would agree with me." Which is just not true. I've had plenty of people comment how they want X/Y/Z to happen, and have left bad ratings or reviews. My story isn't for them, and I don't let it bother me. They aren't bots, they're just people who wish the story was something it isn't. Not my problem.

There is a difference between disagreeing, something you are doing right now, and weaponizing the purposefully unfair rating system, which you are doing on the Royal Road.

There are a lot of things you are purposefully omitting, like, for example, a fresh account making generic and vague low rating reviews under one's story after someone jumped through the review hoop. They came out of nowhere, only rate one story, and then, go silent. If I report them to you, the reports are ignored. Not only they could say mean things to me, like the rest of the Internet can, they could defeat me with the basic math.

Are they bots?

Well, perhaps, perhaps not. After all, I could make a second account, couldn't I?

Are their actions replicable?

No, they are not. Because I tried it. Create a few accounts, leave the same review under one of those Amazon stories, and ... guess what?

It seemed an ugly thing to do, I agree, even if the Amazon novels have so many rating that I couldn't bring it down with the thousand accounts, but it was worth a test after the dozens of new accounts comming from the woodworks to counterbalance my review swapping. I did a lot of swapping, so lot of balance bots. So I tried to act as the balance bot.

Offending review removed in less than 15 minutes.

Which means, no, the process is not only not replicable; it is very clearly done with the full knowledge and support of your moderation staff. Because, clearly, you have a tools to stop this behaviour, you just apply them selectively.

They know what is a bot account - or perhaps I should call it suicide bombing account since it is used only once - and they are purging those if they harm Amazon owned stories, but ignoring them for the rest.

Which means, if you didn't experience this - and it is common, because most writers challenge their ratings with the mods all the time - your novel is one of those Amazon owned that could delete their own rating.

 

[Tyranomaster]

There is a difference between disagreeing, something you are doing right now, and weaponizing the purposefully unfair rating system, which you are doing on the Royal Road.

There are a lot of things you are purposefully omitting, like, for example, a fresh account making generic and vague low rating reviews under one's story after someone jumped through the review hoop. They came out of nowhere, only rate one story, and then, go silent. If I report them to you, the reports are ignored. Not only they could say mean things to me, like the rest of the Internet can, they could defeat me with the basic math.

Are they bots?

Well, perhaps, perhaps not. After all, I could make a second account, couldn't I?

Are their actions replicable?

No, they are not. Because I tried it. Create a few accounts, leave the same review under one of those Amazon stories, and ... guess what?

It seemed an ugly thing to do, I agree, even if the Amazon novels have so many rating that I couldn't bring it down with the thousand accounts, but it was worth a test after the dozens of new accounts comming from the woodworks to counterbalance my review swapping. I did a lot of swapping, so lot of balance bots. So I tried to act as the balance bot.

Offending review removed in less than 15 minutes.

Which means, no, the process is not only not replicable; it is very clearly done with the full knowledge and support of your moderation staff. Because, clearly, you have a tools to stop this behaviour, you just apply them selectively.

They know what is a bot account - or perhaps I should call it suicide bombing account since it is used only once - and they are purging those if they harm Amazon owned stories, but ignoring them for the rest.

Which means, if you didn't experience this - and it is common, because most writers challenge their ratings with the mods all the time - your novel is one of those Amazon owned that could delete their own rating.

So the conspiracy heightens. Now I am part of a cabal intent on manipulation. The web expands. All those who disagree are paid actors, for only one opinion can stand. Of course the only correct opinion is whatever @SailusGebel believes (may his month long haitus go well). All others are merely incorrect.

That said, I am meticulous. If my story is up anywhere on Amazon, please link it so I can DMCA them. I only publish on Wordpress, SH, RR, and Patreon. I treat web novels as first drafts. Final story might go up on Amazon after heavy revision, but it shouldn't be there now.

Further, if I had to wager, you write a lot of furry porn. That is a jimmy rustling topic that people will gladly flock to to downvote. There are others. They probably weren't bots, and you're just very upset that a company isn't bending the knee to make your fetish mainstream. It is what it is.

 

[ConansWitchBaby]

Someone give me those 5 star bots. I'll pay you in hugs and kisses.

 

[RepresentingDesire]

I am part of a discord server that shits on rr ads all the time because most of them fucking suck

 

[beast_regards]

Someone give me those 5 star bots. I'll pay you in hugs and kisses.

Tempting. Send me a link...

Further, if I had to wager, you right a lot of furry porn.

Now, that's a conspiracy theory. We all know there are no furries on the Internet. I confirmed it through the test the Google found, and they couldn't be wrong. After all, they were suggested by the people who wrote your content rules!

 

[abu_nur]

I am part of a discord server that shits on rr ads all the time because most of them fucking

it is basic courtesy, to give me the link young man ?

Someone give me those 5 star bots. I'll pay you in hugs and kisses.

wdym 5 star bots

 

[Tyranomaster]

Now, that's a conspiracy theory. We all know there are no furries on the Internet. I confirmed it through the test the Google found, and they couldn't be wrong. After all, they were suggested by the people who wrote your content rules!

I'm no fan of google, amazon, patreon, webnovel, or RR. As long as they're the big players though, they're the ones I'll cater to. I put my foot down at webnovel, and don't publish there, mostly because I'm a diehard anti-communist. I quit playing league when Tencent got in on Riot. That was that.

That said, I'm also not anti-censorship to a degree. If minors are exposed to degenerate materials, I draw the line. Adults can do whatever, but honestly, I'm glad google enforced stricter rules on RR to allow them on the app store. If it's free to access, kids will get on it. I'm a fan of the legislation in some US states that requires proof of ID to enter porn sites. If a website hosts any porn (even here on SH), then it should require that. Hell, I think steam should require proof of ID to view 18+ games. Kids should not be exposed to the degeneracy of the web. My story has war and combat gore. I could write it out (in fact, I will be writing some of it out of the final draft to bring the rating down). I'd be hurt by this policy too to an extent.

I reiterate that you're butthurt about something else, and are fabricating non-existent problems. Hell, you're even otherizing me by pretending that I'm some kind of RoyalRoad representative. I'm not. I just don't like liars.

 

[CharlesEBrown]

I reiterate that you're butthurt about something else, and are fabricating non-existent problems.

I have seen too many other people claiming nearly identical experiences to believe it IS a non-existent problem. Likely not as wide-spread as those who've fallen victim to it want to believe, but a definite real thing, or at least close to what the victims believe to be worrying.

 

[Tyranomaster]

I have seen too many other people claiming nearly identical experiences to believe it IS a non-existent problem. Likely not as wide-spread as those who've fallen victim to it want to believe, but a definite real thing, or at least close to what the victims believe to be worrying.

This is a fair take. I think there are probably people who fall through the cracks.

I also think, however, that far more people who believe they're being botted or some coordinated attack is happening are actually just being negatively reviewed because the genre they are writing is very negatively viewed on the website, and their other tags bring in people who are suddenly turned off by the whole situation. I'd imagine that it's something like tagging a story with "True Love", "Cute Couple", "NTR", and "Non-Con". Like, a lot of people are going to negatively rate it, because you'll get readers from "True Love" and "Cute Couple" who find NTR disgusting, but didn't read all the tags.

Then when those people believe they're being botted and make a report but no one does anything, they assume that the system is rigged. It's not. You've just stepped on a landmine. Either take it in stride because you believe in your story, or lament the fact other people don't share your niche interests. I think that, in many cases, this is the real problem.

Edit: Take Mook Maker here on SH as an example of this. It has tags for both "Transported to Another World", and "Army Building". On RoyalRoad, those are popular tags. You know what isn't looked on as well there? A lot of the furry stuff. If it's ONLY furry, then it keeps itself well isolated, and only the people who would want to read furry stuff find it. But when random Isekai fans read it, they downvote. It's just how it works.

I've had a few people upset that I don't have my MC just go full dictator and kill all their opposition. Why? Because the genres I write in have a lot of that. I'm lucky that it's not quite as bad as others experience, but it is what it is.