Advice that is useless. A collection.

JayMark

It's Not Easy Being Nobody, But Somebody Has To.
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I've eliminated so many dialogue tags from my old writing.
All jokes aside, the worst advice ever is 'write for yourself' or a longer version 'write for yourself and someone else will like it.' Reeks of toxic positivity that ruined dreams of many budding authors.
I kind of have to write for myself:
1. in order to enjoy the act of writing.
2. To deal with all the hate.
3. To engage in an activity that brings no physical compensation
4. To enjoy reading and editing what I write.

If you want to make money and be a fame moose maybe it's better to find that compromise to write for others but still enjoy your work.

Also, show me the toxic positivity and ruined dreams, don't tell me.
 

RepresentingWrath

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Also, show me the toxic positivity and ruined dreams, don't tell me.
This one is good! :blobrofl:
I kind of have to write for myself:
1. in order to enjoy the act of writing.
2. To deal with all the hate.
3. To engage in an activity that brings no physical compensation
4. To enjoy reading and editing what I write.

If you want to make money and be a fame moose maybe it's better to find that compromise to write for others but still enjoy your work.
The thing is, we all want fame. Usually I say how I exaggerate and it's not everyone but a majority, fuck it. We all want fame. Not all of us want to earn money, or be as famous as King, Martin, Tolkien, Rowling, etc. The key part is, we all want someone to read out stuff, to comment, to like it and talk with us, authors. We want people to think of what will happen, notice foreshadowings, theorize on what is going to happen.

On one hand, I understand that those authors who dropped writing after their first or second novel flopped don't really like writing, and blah-blah... On the other hand, fuck it. They were right. If a tree falls in a forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound? You can't make a novel if no one read it. And forcing your friends and relative to read it is not the same.

So yeah, I think it's the worst advice ever. AT LEAST because it's not genuine and a fucking lie. You should say, "Write for yourself and MAYBE you will find an active reader or two if you are lucky. If you don't want to depend on luck and have more than one active reader you should make sacrifices."
 

Tempokai

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For amateurs, show, don't tell is the greatest advice they could get. At that level amateur doesn't know how to show emotions properly without making it look cringe. But for more talented it's the water in the boots, as at that level they (probably) know how to write emotions (show) while knowing what to tell (pacing). So, yeah, it's both a dumbest and best advice there is.

Advice that was useless for me is "plan the story ahead". I did it, and now I'm stuck because after deadlines at work I don't want to sit to write because I know what rougly will happen and because of it I lose motivation. But it's probably my own problem lol
 

JayMark

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So yeah, I think it's the worst advice ever. AT LEAST because it's not genuine and a fucking lie. You should say, "Write for yourself and MAYBE you will find an active reader or two if you are lucky. If you don't want to depend on luck and have more than one active reader you should make sacrifices."

I don't know what you're talking about. I don't want anyone to read my stuff. It's all terribly written on purpose to keep readers away.

But seriously, off course we want our work to be appreciated. But we have to appreciate ourselves first as we make it. That's why the crickets hurt so much when we try to put it there. The crickets probably hurt more than the hate, but the hate hurts too. So yeah, to continue with writing we need some form of validation, just something, anything. It doesn't have to be huge though, and the goal is different per writer.

If I hadn't gotten a compliment on my writing from a few people, I would have never endured a wave of hate that came after and the crickets for some of my other works. I started posting on forums as a final desperate measure, and if I would have failed completely I would be doing something else with my time.
 

Tempokai

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IF they are also explained what it means. Otherwise, it is like me showing up to a ski camp, and I am told:

"You need to use Pizza and French Fries." and then pushed down the slope.
I agree, that's why I write on how show instead of telling in my roa—, ahem, "feedback". But I always forget to write down "show what matters, and tell what don't". The basics is to give the newbie author to have something memorable to cling to. Let's say a ski newbie hears "You need to use Pizza and French Fries." He doesn't understand it fully, but once he starts to apply them, let's say "Pizza" movement to slow his descent from the mountain and "French Fries" to increase the speed, it suddenly makes sense. It isn't about the advice itself, it's about what you learn from it. It’s both helpful and absurd when left unexplained. But that’s how you learn—to crash, to over-correct, and eventually, to find your rhythm. It beats being shoved off the slope with nothing at all, only to crash so hard you forget why you tried skiing (or writing) in the first place.

The difference between amateurs and experts isn’t the advice—they both hear it. It’s the experience of applying it, crashing and burning, and learning to use it with nuance that makes the difference.
 

Paul__Michaels

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What I do know is that show, not tell refers primarily to using various adjectives and descriptors that only tell us general and/or emotionally primed information. Instead of writing "Alice was angry, but tried not to show it.", you can do "Alice's face contorted for a moment before she relaxed, but her eyebrows were still furrowed.".
There are different levels of writing for a similar thing, right? Simple can be good in some instances, and going into greater detail can make your work stand out from the rest.
Obviously, "Alice was angry, but tried not to show it." this is the basic way to write it, but it isn't engaging. And "Alice's face contorted for a moment before she relaxed, but her eyebrows were still furrowed." is better, but an Author can take it further to engage the reader more by drawing them in with something like this. "Alice felt a simmering anger roiling within her, yet she forced herself to maintain a calm exterior, carefully controlling her expression to keep her frustration hidden from those around her." This is way more engaging and draws the reader in.
Sure, it is a bit wordy, but if it is an important part of the story, then it helps to show this level of detail in your writing. If it is less important, then simpler is better. Understanding when and where to engage in this is up to the author, though. And I don't know if it is something that can be taught.
 

Corty

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Alice felt a simmering anger roiling within her, yet she forced herself to maintain a calm exterior, carefully controlling her expression to keep her frustration hidden from those around her.
Average readers will leave 0.5 stars for that long sentence. From my experience, that falls into the "tell" category because you used too many words.
 

LilRora

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There are different levels of writing for a similar thing, right? Simple can be good in some instances, and going into greater detail can make your work stand out from the rest.
Obviously, "Alice was angry, but tried not to show it." this is the basic way to write it, but it isn't engaging. And "Alice's face contorted for a moment before she relaxed, but her eyebrows were still furrowed." is better, but an Author can take it further to engage the reader more by drawing them in with something like this. "Alice felt a simmering anger roiling within her, yet she forced herself to maintain a calm exterior, carefully controlling her expression to keep her frustration hidden from those around her." This is way more engaging and draws the reader in.
Sure, it is a bit wordy, but if it is an important part of the story, then it helps to show this level of detail in your writing. If it is less important, then simpler is better. Understanding when and where to engage in this is up to the author, though. And I don't know if it is something that can be taught.
I agree with everything here except your example, at least in the context of showing instead of telling. The first half of it is a lot of telling.

Average readers will leave 0.5 stars for that long sentence. From my experience, that falls into the "tell" category because you used too many words.
For a dumbass' "tell" category, maybe. Length should have nothing to do with it. Then again, the average person is pretty dumb, so...
 

ArchlordZero

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Average readers will leave 0.5 stars for that long sentence. From my experience, that falls into the "tell" category because you used too many words.
This bothers me in a lot of ways.
I mean, show don't tell does not make sense in words.
Isn't it better if we "show = pictures", and "tell = words?"
It's highly inefficient if we show words and tell pictures.
?
 

Paul__Michaels

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Average readers will leave 0.5 stars for that long sentence. From my experience, that falls into the "tell" category because you used too many words.
:blobrofl: the RR readers are fickle. They gave me 0.5 because of my "cultured content"

0.5 readers don't deserve your work if you are trying. The only ones I do take seriously are the ones who leave "Good Faith" critiques.
 

JayMark

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Average readers will leave 0.5 stars for that long sentence. From my experience, that falls into the "tell" category because you used too many words.

Paul_Michaels said:
Alice felt a simmering anger roiling within her, yet she forced herself to maintain a calm exterior, carefully controlling her expression to keep her frustration hidden from those around her.
A giant red welt appeared on Alice's forehead that looked like the Bundeswher tank marking. Legs tensed as her body stiffened like old tree bark. She stayed as still as a wood statue on windless day as the welt grew over her face, which looked like a cherry tomato about to pop.

A stat screen popped up instead:

[Anger Level: 8,954]

[Caution: Please use anger controlling measures.]


Alice pressed a button on the screen that summoned a holgraphic version of herself without the explosively red cherry tomato face marked like a German Leopard tank. Everybody sighed as her lips rested, eyes twinkled like butterscotch candies, and her cheeks resumed a rosy disposition, at least as far as they could see.
 
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MarekSusicky

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"Are you making any money off your writing?"
"No."
"Then stop."

And that's why I don't talk about my books with my family anymore.
This! This hurts so much. I did make *some* money before I went on hiatus. Still got complaints from IRL people to focus on my real job, or to get a real hobby.

I don't understand why.
 

Paul__Michaels

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I agree with everything here except your example, at least in the context of showing instead of telling. The first half of it is a lot of telling.
I don't know about that. From how I read it, it's a higher detail of showing.

And don't overlook the quality of the words. Sure having more words can help be if one uses cheap ones will only make your work come out as boring.
 

Gray_Mann

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This thread is subjective. It may have been a result of me getting annoyed. But tell me, what advice have you heard a million times? Those that are just parroted cliché advice that is loved to be used by pretentious know-it-alls. I'll start:

Show, don't tell.

In my opinion, this is the stupidest and most cliché advice that people like to throw around without understanding it. A book is not a movie nor a script for one. The author must tell the reader what is happening.

Most of the time, the people who use this overused phrase don't even know what they mean by it. Instead of explaining their point, like that instead of writing down, "Alice was angry." the writer could have written a scene where she does something out of place, a reaction to the event that made the character angry. But no, they just, at best, throw out the "Git Gud" phrase of writing and then do fuck all to explain what even their issue is. Probably because they don't even know what their issue was besides disliking something.

This leads to the following:

Then, there is the point when the author describes the land where the story takes place. I am seeing a pattern nowadays that people can't handle scenery descriptions and a bit of lore before any dialogue even takes place. I mean, the introduction to a new world, how it gets the "show, don't tell" people to show up like flies to a fresh pile of shit. The same people who then compare the writing to Tolkien's LotR, for what they are expecting, where scenery and lore descriptions took up 15 pages at a time. This further reinforces my belief that people don't know what they are talking about.

It is a catch-22 because I also see that if the "tell" phase is left out of a book, readers tend to fill in the plot with their preconceived ideas and then ruin their own enjoyment, drawing the wrong conclusions. Usually, because they expect the author to show them the rules in chapter one, the same rules you can't show them yet as it wouldn't make any sense plot-wise. For that, the story needs to advance first, but they bail because they weren't shown nor told. Now what?

So, instead of the useless advice of "show, don't tell," it would be much better to advise the author on where to change. Where to use descriptions and descriptions of action. Where to write down that a character is evil, and when should you replace it with writing a scene of the character kicking a puppy.
Damn it Corty. How are you going to ask for useless advice, and then use THE EXACT same answer as I was preparing to give!!

Not cool man...
 

MarekSusicky

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I don't know about that. From how I read it, it's a higher detail of showing.

And don't overlook the quality of the words. Sure having more words can help be if one uses cheap ones will only make your work come out as boring.
This reminds me one joke from novel I read. It was something like:

This nice girl, armed with a wooden hammer of anime proportions, raised it high above her head, the weapon gleaming as if kissed by the chakra gods himself. Her eyes shone with the fury of a thousand blazing suns, and the very air around the two seemed to tremble in anticipation of the impending strike. With a battle cry that echoed through the cosmos, from one galaxy to another, she brought the hammer down in a dramatic swing.
Vs.
She bonked him.
 

CharlesEBrown

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This reminds me one joke from novel I read. It was something like:

This nice girl, armed with a wooden hammer of anime proportions, raised it high above her head, the weapon gleaming as if kissed by the chakra gods himself. Her eyes shone with the fury of a thousand blazing suns, and the very air around the two seemed to tremble in anticipation of the impending strike. With a battle cry that echoed through the cosmos, from one galaxy to another, she brought the hammer down in a dramatic swing.
Vs.
She bonked him.
Seek a middle ground IMO - "Raising the ridiculously huge club over her head, her eyes shining with fury, she bonked him on the head."
 

LilRora

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I don't know about that. From how I read it, it's a higher detail of showing.

And don't overlook the quality of the words. Sure having more words can help be if one uses cheap ones will only make your work come out as boring.
A lot of it is debatable. Naming emotions is for me the most glaring sign of telling, but it's not like it's strictly defined.

On the latter, yep.
 
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