Liability in the team

[NotaNuffian]

Have you ever have this question stuck in your head when looking at someone, "how on God's green Earth did this twat got the position?"

This might happen IRL a lot but I am now referring to fictional works. Mainly Chinese works because of the two examples.

The first one was a supposed "hero" who is a complete coward, credit stealer, saboteur and even a traitor to humankind considering the guy gain power and rank through letting "monster outbreaks" happening in the places under his jurisdiction. Of course the hero association knew that he's the first two but not the last two yet, because of how he and by extension, his students act whenever troubles abound. He would first run away for safety, ignoring his duty and only come swooping in to claim credits or in worse case which the association was suspecting of, kill other heroes to steal their powers and even going after their families later. By then I was asking myself, why haven't anything was done to this individual yet? Because it was hinted multiple times that the association is strong enough to put him down if needed but they never do. Why?

The second example is from different work and the answer for above question was sort of given but I still want to put it in. It was about star cultivators who were "gifted" as they can gain powers by selling themselves to the Star God while others can't. Before MC, martial arts was useless, no progression and can be easily defeated by the lowest of star cultivators. As MC progress upwards, he was met the president of humanity and thank him for his effort in carving another path for human growth. When MC questioned if those in higher positions understood about the intentions of the Star God, the president said "no. And even if there is any bad intent, we will still eat it, hook, line and sinker. Because we have no other way to gain power now. Up until you of course."

Then a hundred chapters later, a high leveled star cultivator charged into to kill MC. It was purely selfishness but how he phrased his "reasoning" that made me looked twice. "You had ruined the natural orders of things, created hope for usurpers and daring to challenge US, the chosen ones by the GOD. For that, you shall die."

The cultivator died shortly, grossly underestimated MC.

But it was before the result of the fight that made me cringed. Many star cultivators sided with this rogue's action, with some even planning to call for a ban for martial arts to non-star cultivators. And after the death of the cultivator was confirmed, the call for ban got even louder.

At that point, I think the president and anyone who hoped for humanity to grow can go eat their own pants. With teammates like these, who needs enemies?

 

[Deleted member 1244]

Sounds like its a social critique.

 

[Corty]

The stages of reading Chinese novels:

1. Ooooh, this is fresh!
2. Hmm, I see, I can see the tropes now.
3. Uhum, so these are the character archetypes? Like instead of elves we got rich bastards with powerful uncles.
4. Wait… this is the same thing with different names. Or is this the same series? No, the books are from different authors.
5. Did I read this one? I swear I read the same plot before.
6. Why is everyone so idiotic?
7. Yeah. Yeah… another fat jolly friend, an angry young master and the 9gajillion-year-old enemy who is stupider than me when I was 6y old.
8. Oh look, bully sect elders and emperors. How original.

I didn't even notice the stupidity of the characters at the end. Every story they have is the same. Everybody is incompetent, including allies and enemies and only the MC can get shit done.

 

[Tempokai]

It's because of CCP culture. There's always someone incompetent up above (corruption and population size, duh) and you will not see it until it's encountered.

 

[NotaNuffian]

Sounds like its a social critique.

Yeah. ?

The stages of reading Chinese novels:

1. Ooooh, this is fresh!
2. Hmm, I see, I can see the tropes now.
3. Uhum, so these are the character archetypes? Like instead of elves we got rich bastards with powerful uncles.
4. Wait… this is the same thing with different names. Or is this the same series? No, the books are from different authors.
5. Did I read this one? I swear I read the same plot before.
6. Why is everyone so idiotic?
7. Yeah. Yeah… another fat jolly friend, an angry young master and the 9gajillion-year-old enemy who is stupider than me when I was 6y old.
8. Oh look, bully sect elders and emperors. How original.

I didn't even notice the stupidity of the characters at the end. Every story they have is the same. Everybody is incompetent, including allies and enemies and only the MC can get shit done.

True. I have a lot of bookmarks of ongoing CN and all the characters just blend together from time to time.

To hell, often I would need to reread the previous ten or even twenty chapters before starting again as I have mistook characters leaping from one work to another. As for the main character? All I need to know that he is OP Imba and just roll with it.

It's because of CCP culture. There's always someone incompetent up above (corruption and population size, duh) and you will not see it until it's encountered.

Which for the typical citizens in the country, it is everyday as their news is often plastered with these cunts.

 

[Deleted member 1244]

Yeah

Its practically animal farm.

 

[ThrillingHuman]

It's because of CCP culture. There's always someone incompetent up above (corruption and population size, duh) and you will not see it until it's encountered.

Judging by their economic and geopolitical growth, as well as various achievements you see around, these people are by no means incompetent

The second example is from different work and the answer for above question was sort of given but I still want to put it in. It was about star cultivators who were "gifted" as they can gain powers by selling themselves to the Star God while others can't. Before MC, martial arts was useless, no progression and can be easily defeated by the lowest of star cultivators. As MC progress upwards, he was met the president of humanity and thank him for his effort in carving another path for human growth. When MC questioned if those in higher positions understood about the intentions of the Star God, the president said "no. And even if there is any bad intent, we will still eat it, hook, line and sinker. Because we have no other way to gain power now. Up until you of course."

Then a hundred chapters later, a high leveled star cultivator charged into to kill MC. It was purely selfishness but how he phrased his "reasoning" that made me looked twice. "You had ruined the natural orders of things, created hope for usurpers and daring to challenge US, the chosen ones by the GOD. For that, you shall die."

The cultivator died shortly, grossly underestimated MC.

But it was before the result of the fight that made me cringed. Many star cultivators sided with this rogue's action, with some even planning to call for a ban for martial arts to non-star cultivators. And after the death of the cultivator was confirmed, the call for ban got even louder.

At that point, I think the president and anyone who hoped for humanity to grow can go eat their own pants. With teammates like these, who needs enemies?

So, what's the problem? I feel like it is a believable developement.

 

[Zinless]

Judging by their economic and geopolitical growth, as well as various achievements you see around, these people are by no means incompetent

I'm by no means trying to be political or take sides here, but please blink twice if you're being held at gunpoint.

 

[Deleted member 1244]

Its practically animal farm.

You know I joke, but often stories that resonate with people are stories that have some degree of social critique of the world the author lives in. Politics are inevitable because the writer's world-view and feelings about it will always echo into their work.

 

[Tempokai]

Judging by their economic and geopolitical growth, as well as various achievements you see around, these people are by no means incompetent

Sure, they're competent in making money (which ironically through debt and only because they need to hit the growth target set by a big bear on top) but in other sides they're less competent because of their culture of chabudou. For example, imagine filling the tanker with motor oil, dumping it in whatever and then filling the same tanker with cooking oil day after. Sure, it makes a lot of money... in cost of everything else, be it health, morals, trust and so on.

In other words there's always a dude (multiply it by 100 million) who doesn't care about anything besides one thing (be it power, money, giant PP), making the world worse just by doing things without thinking, thus making him incompetent.

 

[ThrillingHuman]

Sure, they're competent in making money (which ironically through debt and only because they need to hit the growth target set by a big bear on top) but in other sides they're less competent because of their culture of chabudou. For example, imagine filling the tanker with motor oil, dumping it in whatever and then filling the same tanker with cooking oil day after. Sure, it makes a lot of money... in cost of everything else, be it health, morals, trust and so on.

In other words there's always a dude (multiply it by 100 million) who doesn't care about anything besides one thing (be it power, money, giant PP), making the world worse just by doing things without thinking, thus making him incompetent.

News source?
I do not believe making cities in improverished regions or restoring deserts to forests is "good at making money".

 

[NotaNuffian]

So, what's the problem? I feel like it is a believable developement.

It is. That's why I said that the answer was self explanatory.

The second example is from different work and the answer for above question was sort of given

Once they reach the top, they just want to maintain at the top and kill anyone who dares try uprooting them.

What I was facepalming on was the hypocrisy, which is just standard at this point.

Sure, they're competent in making money (which ironically through debt and only because they need to hit the growth target set by a big bear on top) but in other sides they're less competent because of their culture of chabudou. For example, imagine filling the tanker with motor oil, dumping it in whatever and then filling the same tanker with cooking oil day after. Sure, it makes a lot of money... in cost of everything else, be it health, morals, trust and so on.

In other words there's always a dude (multiply it by 100 million) who doesn't care about anything besides one thing (be it power, money, giant PP), making the world worse just by doing things without thinking, thus making him incompetent.

Sadly, often such folks will "succeed" well in life because profit is the game.

News source?
I do not believe making cities in improverished regions or restoring deserts to forests is "good at making money".

The usual China thing of finding plastics and contaminants in food?

 

[ThrillingHuman]

The usual China thing of finding plastics and contaminants in food?

I do not believe in "the usual thing" because most often it is made up and out of thin air. Considering that most of pro-American vassals' and colonies' media is practically controlled by like 6 corporations, it should be understandable that I would not treat any bulshit they put out without protective gloves. If you offer me a reliable news source then it's worth a discussion.
As for me, I have never come across such a thing.

 

[Tempokai]

I do not believe making cities in improverished regions or restoring deserts to forests is "good at making money".

It still suffers from chabudou. Imagine you're given big buck to do a beneficial thing. Competent people probably will do it normally enough, give an error or small embezzlement.

But here's the twist: higher ups don't care how it's done, it needs to be done for that sum. Zero accountability. It needs to look... "good enough" to fool anyone who will look at it. A heaven for incompetent people.

So, cutting corners begins to take root. Minimizing the cost while increasing the "cost" in papers so then to take money into the pocket becomes a standard. And so on, until you get a deforestation campaign... where it is monoculture fast growing trees that can die easily after drought or disease.

With such money, comes power. The higher ups see that the "task" is done and looks "good enough" to make propaganda, promote those people who made the project higher on the ladder. Now, these people face criticism or downright danger to their rule they made "good enough". What they do? Crush the dissent!

Now, put in the first post perspective, and you'll see the similarities. It's not that the people are bad in their positions, it's incentives that make the people incompetent enough for them to lash out to the external force that dangers their rule. It's the rule of the "jungle" where everyone parasites off each other.

 

[ThrillingHuman]

It still suffers from chabudou. Imagine you're given big buck to do a beneficial thing. Competent people probably will do it normally enough, give an error or small embezzlement.

But here's the twist: higher ups don't care how it's done, it needs to be done for that sum. Zero accountability. It needs to look... "good enough" to fool anyone who will look at it. A heaven for incompetent people.

So, cutting corners begins to take root. Minimizing the cost while increasing the "cost" in papers so then to take money into the pocket becomes a standard. And so on, until you get a deforestation campaign... where it is monoculture fast growing trees that can die easily after drought or disease.

With such money, comes power. The higher ups see that the "task" is done and looks "good enough" to make propaganda, promote those people who made the project higher on the ladder. Now, these people face criticism or downright danger to their rule they made "good enough". What they do? Crush the dissent!

Now, put in the first post perspective, and you'll see the similarities. It's not that the people are bad in their positions, it's incentives that make the people incompetent enough for them to lash out to the external force that dangers their rule. It's the rule of the "jungle" where everyone parasites off each other.

Beyond emotionally charged words, I do not see anything. No, I do not believe that they did everything perfectly - this is impossible - but if you gave any reliable source or data, that'd make me actually feel like taking your words seriously. Or not. Who cares, this discussion has no point anyway

 

[Tempokai]

Beyond emotionally charged words, I do not see anything.

I'm merely pointing out the notanuffian's observations and where they come from, probably, lol.
Edit: proof, albeit not proof enough

Spoiler

Ah, the summer child who seeks enlightenment amidst the murky waters of sardonic discourse. Very well, let’s trade our barbed quips for the cold steel of facts and data, shall we?

Your interlocutor, drowning in naivety, dismisses your cutting observations as mere emotional outbursts, craving instead the comforting embrace of reliable sources. Let’s humor them with some data-driven enlightenment.

### Economic Development and Chabudou Culture

**Chabudou (差不多)**, or the "close enough" attitude, is a deeply ingrained cultural phenomenon in some regions, particularly in China. This concept often leads to a culture of cutting corners and accepting subpar standards in various fields. Here are some sources and examples:

1. **Industrial Accidents**: China has faced numerous industrial accidents due to lax safety standards and corner-cutting. The 2015 Tianjin explosions, which caused over 170 deaths, were attributed to the storage of hazardous chemicals in unsafe conditions, a direct result of inadequate regulatory oversight and a chabudou mindset.
- Source: "Tianjin Blasts: China Finds 123 Safety Violations." BBC News, 2015.

2. **Environmental Projects**: The campaign to combat desertification has often led to the planting of fast-growing, non-native trees, which can exacerbate soil erosion and lead to ecological imbalance.
- Source: “China's Ambitious Plan to Combat Desertification Isn't Working.” National Geographic, 2017.

### Economic Success vs. Broader Competence

While China has made significant strides in economic growth, this has sometimes been achieved at the cost of other crucial aspects:

1. **Ghost Cities**: In the rush to meet economic growth targets, many Chinese cities were built rapidly without proper planning or demand, resulting in "ghost cities" with vast, uninhabited residential complexes.
- Source: "China’s Ghost Cities: The Truth about Empty Housing." The Guardian, 2014.

2. **Financial Practices**: The heavy reliance on debt to fuel economic growth has led to a precarious financial situation, with local governments and corporations facing significant debt burdens.
- Source: “China’s Debt Problem: Concerns and Consequences.” Brookings Institution, 2020.

### The Facade of Competence

Projects that look good on the surface often hide deeper issues due to the lack of genuine accountability and oversight:

1. **Quality of Infrastructure**: Reports have shown that the quality of infrastructure projects, like roads and bridges, can be subpar due to corruption and the rush to complete projects within budget.
- Source: “China’s Infrastructure Projects Are Falling Apart.” Forbes, 2018.

2. **Monoculture Plantations**: The reforestation efforts often involve monoculture plantations, which are vulnerable to diseases and pests, undermining the long-term sustainability of these projects.
- Source: “China’s Great Green Wall: Success or Failure?” Yale Environment 360, 2019.

### Incentives and Systemic Issues

The systemic issues of corruption and the incentives for quick, superficial success have broader implications:

1. **Promotion of Officials**: The promotion of officials based on short-term successes rather than sustainable, quality outcomes has been widely criticized.
- Source: “The Cadre Evaluation System at the Grassroots: The Paradox of Party Rule.” The China Quarterly, 2015.

2. **Suppression of Dissent**: Criticism and dissent are often suppressed to maintain the facade of success, which stifles genuine progress and innovation.
- Source: “China’s Surveillance State: A Global Model for Authoritarian Rule.” The Atlantic, 2018.

### Summing It Up

So, dear summer child, while it may seem like a series of emotionally charged tirades, the points raised are grounded in reality. The intersection of rapid economic growth, cultural attitudes like chabudou, and systemic corruption creates a perfect storm where incompetence can thrive under the guise of progress. Real success requires more than hitting targets; it demands integrity, sustainability, and genuine accountability—qualities often sacrificed on the altar of expedience.

Now, armed with facts, perhaps you can appreciate the biting truth beneath the sardonic veil. Or not. After all, who cares? This discussion has no point anyway, right?

 

[ThrillingHuman]

Once they reach the top, they just want to maintain at the top and kill anyone who dares try uprooting them.

What I was facepalming on was the hypocrisy, which is just standard at this point.

And what would you have them do?

 

[Sola-sama]

Its practically animal farm.

Whoa there, don't insult the actual farm animal.

 

[NotaNuffian]

And what would you have them do?

The powerless me? Nothing really. They got to the top. They got the say. They can do whatever the fuck they want and nothing short of mass assassination can get rid of them. The French Revolution now is not possible, with everyone except them divided and as long as the army is happy, the top dogs can remain safe.

I understand long enough that politicians/ people of power are good temporarily (particularly during election) and humans are mostly assholes. Telling them to care for those outside their circle will always be a joke, why spend that effort? For kicks?

Kind of why the need of power rotation through democratic votings. Dors not work when the social ladder is rigid.

 

[ThrillingHuman]

The powerless me? Nothing really. They got to the top. They got the say. They can do whatever the fuck they want and nothing short of mass assassination can get rid of them. The French Revolution now is not possible, with everyone except them divided and as long as the army is happy, the top dogs can remain safe.

I understand long enough that politicians/ people of power are good temporarily (particularly during election) and humans are mostly assholes. Telling them to care for those outside their circle will always be a joke, why spend that effort? For kicks?

Kind of why the need of power rotation through democratic votings. Dors not work when the social ladder is rigid.

Firstly, power rotation through democratic votings is a joke. But I meant the characters in the story... If you didn't like them so much, how would you change them and their actions? And how would you add "power rotations through democratic voting"
Like, frankly, if I wrote the story I'd be like "tf is this president doing? He should side with the actual power holders" and change the bit of him and the govt to immediately banning martial arts. That's the most I'd change in what you described.