LGBT+ Genre or Tag

[JasonDKarl]

There is neither a genre nor a tag for stories that are LGBT+ themed. Yes, there are very specific subcategories, such as "boys love subplot," but there is no way to tag or search for an LGBT+ story theme. I think this is greatly needed. For stories where a character's being LGBT+ is important, but the story isn't erotic or romantic in nature, then the lack of such a genre or tag separates the authors from their potential audience.

For example, if someone wrote a story about the challenges faced by being forced to stay in the closet due to living somewhere or at some time period where it isn't safe to be out, there is no way to tag that story as LGBT+ if it isn't about romance or sex.

So, I request an LGBT+ Fiction genre or tag be added.

 

[melchi]

LGBT

L = Girls love
G = Boys love
B = (Could add both? I think there is a poly tag too)
T = Transgender

Having a more vague one doesn't really add much. What if someone wants to find BL, but doesn't like GL? Being more vague makes it harder to search. There are lots of stories about where it isn't safe to be out.

 

[JasonDKarl]

LGBT

L = Girls love
G = Boys love
B = (Could add both? I think there is a poly tag too)
T = Transgender

Having a more vague one doesn't really add much. What if someone wants to find BL, but doesn't like GL? Being more vague makes it harder to search. There are lots of stories about where it isn't safe to be out.

I'm not suggesting to remove those categories. But there are more ways to write about LGBT+ characters than those subcategories. As it currently is, an author writing about an LGBT+ character in a story that isn't about romance or sex, must either falsely say "Girls Love" or "Boys love" or else not have a clear way to let the reader know it's a LGBT+ story.

 

[Corty]

writing about an LGBT+ character in a story that isn't about romance or sex

LGBT+ is about the character's sexuality. If it isn't about the character's sexuality, then it doesn't even matter because if it is not about romance or sex, it plays exactly 0 role in the story if the character is he/she/it. No?

I am not trying to be rude; I am just trying to understand the need for it genuinely.

There are tags for preferred sexuality, if I recall correctly there are bisex, pansex, androgynous, trans tags too. What else do we need? I'm not getting it.

 

[Deleted member 76176]

I'm not suggesting to remove those categories. But there are more ways to write about LGBT+ characters than those subcategories. As it currently is, an author writing about an LGBT+ character in a story that isn't about romance or sex, must either falsely say "Girls Love" or "Boys love" or else not have a clear way to let the reader know it's a LGBT+ story.

A story containing a boy's love tag doesn't imply it involves romance or sex in any way more than it means it has boy's love elements. In practice, any story that has gay as one of its themes, even if small, is eligible for it. The romance tag can be added separately, as can smut, depending on the amount of sexual content.

I think your best bet would be to write a short note somewhere in the story description if the synopsis doesn't make it apparent already.

 

[melchi]

I'm not suggesting to remove those categories. But there are more ways to write about LGBT+ characters than those subcategories. As it currently is, an author writing about an LGBT+ character in a story that isn't about romance or sex, must either falsely say "Girls Love" or "Boys love" or else not have a clear way to let the reader know it's a LGBT+ story.

I didn't say you were advocating for them to be removed. I'm just saying that specific ones are better than general ones. Amazon has a LGBT cat and it can mean a whole lot of different things. Even with 4 different things someone looking for 1 of those could be missing 75% of the time.

 

[JasonDKarl]

LGBT+ is about the character's sexuality. If it isn't about the character's sexuality, then it doesn't even matter because if it is not about romance or sex, it plays exactly 0 role in the story if the character is he/she/it. No?

I am not trying to be rude; I am just trying to understand the need for it genuinely.

There are tags for preferred sexuality, if I recall correctly there are bisex, pansex, androgynous, trans tags too. What else do we need? I'm not getting it.

There is no genre or tag for a Gay or Lesbian Protagonist. There are tags for "Bisexual Protagonist" and "Transgender", but not one for "Gay Protagonist" or "Lesbian Protagonist." At the very minimum, these tags should exist.

What if the character is gay but has never had a relationship and remains a virgin at late age? None of the very specific tags currently existing apply.

Being LGBT+ is about a person's identity. It is far more encompassing than sex. Boy's love / Yaoi is about homoerotic relationships (and, according to Wikipedia, "is typically created by women for women"). I don't object to these categories at all, but they are very specific.

 

[Corty]

There is no genre or tag for a Gay or Lesbian Protagonist. There are tags for "Bisexual Protagonist" and "Transgender", but not one for "Gay Protagonist" or "Lesbian Protagonist." At the very minimum, these tags should exist.

What if the character is gay but has never had a relationship and remains a virgin at late age? None of the very specific tags currently existing apply.

Being LGBT+ is about a person's identity. It is far more encompassing than sex. Boy's love / Yaoi is about homoerotic relationships (and, according to Wikipedia, "is typically created by women for women"). I don't object to these categories at all, but they are very specific.

If we can add Lesbian/Gay protag tag I’m up for it. Otherwise GL and BL genres will suffice because no matter what the wiki says everyone knows that GL means lesbian preference whole BL means gay preference. The rest can be fine-tuned via the tags.

 

[JasonDKarl]

If we can add Lesbian/Gay protag tag I’m up for it. Otherwise GL and BL genres will suffice because no matter what the wiki says everyone knows that GL means lesbian preference whole BL means gay preference. The rest can be fine-tuned via the tags.

We're agreed on adding the Lesbian and Gay protagonist tags. I don't conccur on the interpretation of BL and GL tags' meanings, but I can let that pass.

 

[Deleted member 76176]

There is no genre or tag for a Gay or Lesbian Protagonist. There are tags for "Bisexual Protagonist" and "Transgender", but not one for "Gay Protagonist" or "Lesbian Protagonist." At the very minimum, these tags should exist.

What if the character is gay but has never had a relationship and remains a virgin at late age? None of the very specific tags currently existing apply.

Being LGBT+ is about a person's identity. It is far more encompassing than sex. Boy's love / Yaoi is about homoerotic relationships (and, according to Wikipedia, "is typically created by women for women"). I don't object to these categories at all, but they are very specific.

You can have an argument about adding lesbian and gay protagonists as tags, but the reason it hasn't been added till date is largely because of the overlap between girl's love and boy's love with those two tags. It might be worthwhile to create a separate tag request for this.

 

[BetterNickPending]

Also changing tags system so late in the game would do nothing good for already published stories.
No one could force authors to retroactively change their tags. Especially since some of them might not be active at the moment.

That would cause Tony to have to read ALL stories containing BL, GL tags to check if there is sex or not and change tags if there is no sex/romance.
And then to read ALL that do not contain BL, GL tag to check if protagonist is gay and story requires additional tags.


As even Tony might have problem reading over 25 thousand stories that are on SH in any sensible time.
That would exclude all older stories from being findable for people who might be interested in them but use new tags.
That would be for example all new users who will came to SH after tags change and do not know that they have to use different tags for older stories and different tags for new stories.

 

[BearlyAlive]

I am not sure if I'm too tired to think or if it's just my romance-addled brain thinking too far, but wouldn't Gay or Lesbian MC just be the preference of potential lovers/mates and thus only factor in for romantic (sub)plots or smut? What does it say about the protagonist outside of their preferred partner's gender, therefore enabling the Lesbian/Gay (sub)plot or smut tags if it ever comes up in a story? And a story about coming out would still have elements of attraction and would thus (by a slight stretch) fit the currently available options. I personally can't think of a scenario where the currently available tags wouldn't cover the story.

I'm all for the Gaysbian Protagonist tags. But I reject the idea that being gay or lesbian could be a character trait. Unless we're going into homophobic territory and define certain behavior as typical lesbian or typical gay.

As even Tony might have problem reading over 25 thousand stories that are on SH in any sensible time.
That would exclude all older stories from being findable for people who might be interested in them but use new tags.
That would be for example all new users who will came to SH after tags change and do not know that they have to use different tags for older stories and different tags for new stories.

Couldn't that just be fixed by doing some hierarchical code sorcery and auto-adding the protag tags to stories that have the GL or BL tags? I'm a total noob and have no clue how it works, but unless the tags are made in an Excel table, shouldn't there be an easy way to force parent or child tags?

 

[Cipiteca396]

I think I'd rather see LGBT as a genre, but a tag would work fine. It's a nice catch all tag, like Magic or Fantasy World. Those tags are redundant and meaningless, but used by literally everyone, lol.

That said, the tags we currently have that come close to what you described are:

• Abusive Characters
• Bullying
• Child Abuse
• Coming of Age
• Hated Protagonist
• Hiding True Identity
• Identity Crisis
• Loneliness
• Secret Identity
• Secrets

Unfortunately, none of them are quite right. Maybe a tag like "Closeted Protagonist" or something would cover it. I'm hesitant to suggest a tag like Bigotry or Homophobia. Seems like troll bait.

 

[Deleted member 76176]

I am not sure if I'm too tired to think or if it's just my romance-addled brain thinking too far, but wouldn't Gay or Lesbian MC just be the preference of potential lovers/mates and thus only factor in for romantic (sub)plots or smut? What does it say about the protagonist outside of their preferred partner's gender, therefore enabling the Lesbian/Gay (sub)plot or smut tags if it ever comes up in a story? And a story about coming out would still have elements of attraction and would thus (by a slight stretch) fit the currently available options. I personally can't think of a scenario where the currently available tags wouldn't cover the story.

I'm all for the Gaysbian Protagonist tags. But I reject the idea that being gay or lesbian could be a character trait. Unless we're going into homophobic territory and define certain behavior as typical lesbian or typical gay.


Couldn't that just be fixed by doing some hierarchical code sorcery and auto-adding the protag tags to stories that have the GL or BL tags? I'm a total noob and have no clue how it works, but unless the tags are made in an Excel table, shouldn't there be an easy way to force parent or child tags?

Girl's Love isn't a one-to-one comparison to the Lesbian Protagonist tag. The protagonist in a girl's love novel can be bisexual, so relationships with men are probable within the tag definition. The other thing is if she is visibly attracted to girls but doesn't contain any girl's love element otherwise.

On the off-topic, authors are requested to use the bisexual tag even if they claim the protagonist is lesbian if it involves sexual acts with males—pretty weird, right?

 

[BearlyAlive]

The other thing is if she is visibly attracted to girls but doesn't contain any girl's love element otherwise.

You're right, I didn't consider the cases where people are attracted to someone but don't act upon their attraction.

The protagonist in a girl's love novel can be bisexual, so relationships with men are probable within the tag definition. The other thing is if she is visibly attracted to girls but doesn't contain any girl's love element otherwise.

Wouldn't the combination of Bisexual Protagonist (or Rape, if forced) and GL/BL solve those cases?

On the off-topic, authors are requested to use the bisexual tag even if they claim the protagonist is lesbian if it involves sexual acts with males—pretty weird, right?

Readers have always interpreted things the way they want. If they don't ask for or against harem or smut, they try to steer the author in the direction of their headcanon

 

[Deleted member 76176]

Wouldn't the combination of Bisexual Protagonist (or Rape, if forced) and GL/BL solve those cases?

That's the way it is right now. My case was that if you have a lesbian protagonist tag, for example, you'd not have to look if it also includes a bisexual tag, as in the case with Girl's Love.