Where to draw the line on the complex powers?

RootBeerBert

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I'm having a conundrum. I'm not sure where to draw the limits on how strong and how complex I want to be with powers in my story. I feel if I make the powers too simple that aspect of my story will stay generic and forgettable while if I make things too complex things will get too complicated with all the possibilities making the story jarring to write how I want and contrived for readers with the direction I take the story.

For example, the basic 4 elements (I know it's overdone and generic, it's my first story gimme a break) tie into temperature, life, metals, and gases at their cores, there are so many applications to each of these, attainable by any mob in the world (technically). Plus there's the more personalized (and OP) powers and their potential too. I just don't want to write myself into a corner and then have to rely on asspulls and plot convivences to get myself out.

I'm thinking of scaling down what the basic elements can do and just focus on the more individualized powers but I think the problem will still remain for them too, any ideas on what I can do?
 

Rezcore

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I'm having a conundrum. I'm not sure where to draw the limits on how strong and how complex I want to be with powers in my story. I feel if I make the powers too simple that aspect of my story will stay generic and forgettable while if I make things too complex things will get too complicated with all the possibilities making the story jarring to write how I want and contrived for readers with the direction I take the story.

For example, the basic 4 elements (I know it's overdone and generic, it's my first story gimme a break) tie into temperature, life, metals, and gases at their cores, there are so many applications to each of these, attainable by any mob in the world (technically). Plus there's the more personalized (and OP) powers and their potential too. I just don't want to write myself into a corner and then have to rely on asspulls and plot convivences to get myself out.

I'm thinking of scaling down what the basic elements can do and just focus on the more individualized powers but I think the problem will still remain for them too, any ideas on what I can do?
K.I.S.S: Keep It Simple Stupid
If it's easy to understand your reader will identify with it better, take the force as an example. Simplicity hides complexity, allowing you to expound upon many magic related issues. Like each element having an aspect, that when combined with another could have differing outputs based on ratios.
 

TheEldritchGod

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That's where I START.
 

Alfir

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It all goes down to the power system.
To make it easier, never go meta, avoid reality-breaking powers (even the likes of Deadpool's Fourth Wall breaks cuz it's meta), and be like the MCU. They are doing pretty well in that aspect especially when it comes to storytelling... In my opinion, they have the most grounded and most holistic powerset that is easy to understand, unlike DCU which can really fluctuate out of the orbit, and even the power system in Animes can be a challenge depending on the audience.
 

QuercusMalus

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If the magic is elaborate- when did they learn it? Do they not need to practice?

As for your 'basic' elements- you can make it make the implementation as simple or complex you want:
Example 1: Magic A is Magic A. So a fireball is a fireball. It always has a set power, damage, range ect.
Example 2: Fireballs are still a basic spell but heat, size, range ect are determined by how much mana/energy ect you put into it. Whether or not there is an upper limit is up to you. So the same spell could be used to light a candle, or shatter the moon in the sky.
Example 3: To cast a fireball you have to use two spells simultaneously- A fire spell to create it, and an air spell to throw it as fire has no mass on its own.
3a. Same as above but you have to cast a third, water, spell to cool your hand to prevent burning yourself.

The main thing is that however the Magic is used in your system, it has to always be used that way unless there is a reason why this time it's different. Changes without reason or explanation are when I start giving the story the stink eye.
 
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TheMonotonePuppet

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I'm having a conundrum. I'm not sure where to draw the limits on how strong and how complex I want to be with powers in my story. I feel if I make the powers too simple that aspect of my story will stay generic and forgettable while if I make things too complex things will get too complicated with all the possibilities making the story jarring to write how I want and contrived for readers with the direction I take the story.

For example, the basic 4 elements (I know it's overdone and generic, it's my first story gimme a break) tie into temperature, life, metals, and gases at their cores, there are so many applications to each of these, attainable by any mob in the world (technically). Plus there's the more personalized (and OP) powers and their potential too. I just don't want to write myself into a corner and then have to rely on asspulls and plot convivences to get myself out.

I'm thinking of scaling down what the basic elements can do and just focus on the more individualized powers but I think the problem will still remain for them too, any ideas on what I can do?
I would advise that if you are starting with simple abilities, then you have a unique underlying mechanism.
It's totally fine to have simple powers, but by having a unique mechanism by which the powers are received, you can provide novel limits and conditions that the characters have to work around. That way, it is not a complete generic magic system. To give an example, Avatar: The Last Airbender. You bend the elements via varying styles of martial arts, as well as actually well-thought out philosophies and ways of living life. You must grow as a person, training your body, fulfilling forms to perfection, and follow one of the spiritual practices. Those are what leads to improvement in your ability. It's not just saying "Imma stick as much mana into this water spell and let it wash away my opponents" or "I'm going to squish this spell with my indomitable willpower and kill everyone with this basic experimentation." Instead, different moves lead to differing effects i.e. an uppercut is very different in effect (a short, blowtorch effect) to a spinning kick (a veritable pinwheel of fire). And different combinations are more effective in different circumstances. In most cases, a spinning kick is going to be useless, because while flashy, it is mainly for show, even with fire to back it up. Physical strength is actually relevant, because the elements are not controllable with perfect exactitude. They must be controlled via various physical methods.

My personal spin on such a generic system would be that various human body parts, when sacrificed to a deity of one element, will bestow that power on you. Say, the eye will grant you light, the heart will grant you fire, the gut will grant you shadow, etc. There are a lot of body parts, thus a lot of powers. But! The more you gain, the more your own body part will start turning into that element (which basically just amounts to disintegration). Which means that you will have to sacrifice those organs in your name or get others sacrifice other people's organs in your name, to fix them. If you want to go even more unique, refining those organs into certain shapes, experimenting with various stuff, could call on smaller versions of the elements that are more potent.

In addition to a unique underlying mechanism, you can compensate with in-depth world building if your power system sucks. I'll be honest. My power system is not the best. It has some big flaws. But how it impacts the world, how much I went into that, it compensates a good amount for it. I didn't get just give people powers and be done with it, nor did I lightly sprinkle stuff, and not think of various geopolitical consequences.

K.I.S.S: Keep It Simple Stupid
If it's easy to understand your reader will identify with it better, take the force as an example. Simplicity hides complexity, allowing you to expound upon many magic related issues. Like each element having an aspect, that when combined with another could have differing outputs based on ratios.
Not going to lie, basic ratio math is one of the most basic ideas one can think of. It can still be used. I'm just saying, it isn't complex. I've seen more than 20 different versions of this.
Here's how to balance it. If a reader whose native language ain't English reads your power description, and has to reread it at least once, it's too complicated.
I completely disagree. Some people are just stupid, and you shouldn't cater to them. There are plenty of people who speak English and have to reread power descriptions because they were tired, are idiots, etc.
 

RepresentingWrath

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I completely disagree. Some people are just stupid, and you shouldn't cater to them. There are plenty of people who speak English and have to reread power descriptions because they were tired, are idiots, etc.
Since stupid people exist, you shouldn't care about those who don't know English well enough, noted.
 

TheMonotonePuppet

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Since stupid people exist, you shouldn't care about those who don't know English well enough, noted.
No. That's an idiotic correlation and a misconstruing of my words.

Did you ask this to get a rise out of me? This is a genuine question that I'm asking, because it befuddles me how someone older than me, with presumably more experience, would ask this question.

You do realize that writing for those who don't know English well, unless you have the translation right there, is impossible, right? Unless you write the translation right next to it, those who don't know English well enough exist on a spectrum, so writing to achieve perfect cross-cultural communication for every part of the spectrum is an impossibility. There are some who are better than native-born English speakers, and some are still making baby steps. And then there is another huge part of the spectrum of non-native English speakers, who, like many readers, just don't catch the first time. Other than making it as clear as possible, using the few-to-nonexistent rules that English doesn't break, it does not work.

I... cannot even conceive how your comment made it to Post reply.

This applies in other languages too. Why do you think I wouldn't see it as correlating to other languages?

Write to the best of one's capability. Your standard is too high for any power system, regardless of whether the reader is from a different culture. If it is impossible to dumb a power system down for a lot of people to get it on first grasp, and it's their original language, how the frick do you expect someone to cross the gap consistently, and for most everyone?
 

RepresentingWrath

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Did you ask this to get a rise out of me? This is a genuine question that I'm asking,
Nah, I just thought it would be a funny response.
This is a genuine question that I'm asking, because it befuddles me how someone older than me, with presumably more experience, would ask this question.
I honestly don't remember saying I'm older(I don't remember how old are you, sorry), or flexing my experience(since it's lackluster). If you refer to "how old are you thread" that you made, I was mostly referring to how I act rather than actual age, and half of it was a joke.
You do realize that writing for those who don't know English well, unless you have the translation right there, is impossible, right? Unless you write the translation right next to it, those who don't know English well enough exist on a spectrum, so writing to achieve perfect cross-cultural communication for every part of the spectrum is an impossibility. There are some who are better than native-born English speakers, and some are still making baby steps. And then there is another huge part of the spectrum of non-native English speakers, who, like many readers, just don't catch the first time. Other than making it as clear as possible, using the few-to-nonexistent rules that English doesn't break, it does not work.

I... cannot even conceive how your comment made it to Post reply.

This applies in other languages too. Why do you think I wouldn't see it as correlating to other languages?

Write to the best of one's capability. Your standard is too high for any power system, regardless of whether the reader is from a different culture. If it is impossible to dumb a power system down for a lot of people to get it on first grasp, and it's their original language, how the frick do you expect someone to cross the gap consistently, and for most everyone?
Yeah, I don't quite get what you wrote here. Just write simple stuff and use simple words. As for power systems, I don't know. Conversation is about powers, not power systems, at least that's how I interpreted the thread's title, if I'm wrong, I'm sorry. And when we talk about powers, anyone can understand what, for example, super strength is, or super speed, or telekinesis. Well, to be fair, not everyone. There are certain cases when people will get stumped even with that, but most of those types of powers are easy to understand to the vast majority.
 

TheMonotonePuppet

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Nah, I just thought it would be a funny response.
Oh… I acted a “bit” out of sorts then, and by a bit, I mean a lot. My bad. I’m sorry.
I honestly don't remember saying I'm older(I don't remember how old are you, sorry), or flexing my experience(since it's lackluster). If you refer to "how old are you thread" that you made, I was mostly referring to how I act rather than actual age, and half of it was a joke.
There wasn’t any mention of age or flexing involved that I can recall. I mentioned your age in respect for your seniority. Just how I was raised (in other words, I was taught to respect older individuals’ opinions, and put more credence to their opinions). I was having trouble connecting what I thought was a genuine, out-of-the-blue judgment of inner prejudice (but I now know as a funny :blob_sweat:) with you being a well-experienced individual.
Yeah, I don't quite get what you wrote here. Just write simple stuff and use simple words. As for power systems, I don't know. Conversation is about powers, not power systems, at least that's how I interpreted the thread's title, if I'm wrong, I'm sorry. And when we talk about powers, anyone can understand what, for example, super strength is, or super speed, or telekinesis. Well, to be fair, not everyone. There are certain cases when people will get stumped even with that, but most of those types of powers are easy to understand to the vast majority.
My opinion is that power systems and powers are deeply connected, and to talk about one is to talk about the other.
However, now that you explained your view, I realize you are responding more directly (and correctly?) to the original commenter’s queries.
Definitely a difference of perspective that caused this, but misinterpretation and misconstruing things puts the fault on my side.
My sincerest apologies. You’re in the right. I’m more than a little embarrassed, and I feel bad I went after you like that.
 
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