HakoMari and philosophy, I suppose

[Deleted member 76176]

A big part of my philosophy is that actions have consequences. If a person risks the lives of the entire city for the life of one but manages to save every party, first he may be praised for his capabilities for managing to save both, then he must await the negative consequences of his action. I'm not saying what he did was good or bad; I don't blame him and might even admire him; however, I can in no way encourage his behavior. So it is pretty utilitarian thinking.

Similarly, if a person mentally abuses someone for something, no matter the greater good, and once the abused person finds out that it hurt them to do so, the issue can't be over. The abuser can't be forgiven. There must be some consequences for their action.

Past this point, we are entering spoiler territory.

So how is this related to the series? I'm sure you are aware of Kazuki's character development from vol. 5, if you have read the novel—from a generic protagonist to a compelling but extreme character. The author hadn't deterred from showing his insanity, making the comment that he needed Maria like a human needed food to survive (I didn't remember the exact line). He severed ties with his friends, killed his friend Shindou Iroha just to save Maria who was supposedly kidnapped on Daiya's orders, and went against the very wishes of the person he meant to save, during which she lost her trust on him.

Given that Maria forbade killing even a single person, Kazuki claimed he'd kill everyone in the world and later did so. The world was fictional, but it did prove how far the obsession of his extended. The most insane of all was when he spent 1,095 years (400,000 loops of the blissful day) committing suicide in various and extreme ways possible and losing sanity, just to remember Maria's name.
Seeing Kazuki like this saved Maria from her sister's shadow, and at the end, she married him, helping him with recovery (he couldn't speak or function like a human after the experience).

Now, if it isn't clear, I totally abhor Kazuki. He is not just a mad dog. His obsession with Maria and him ending up with her isn't something I celebrate. There hadn't been any consequences for him. Even his friend made up.

So my questions for you are: Did you like Kazuki? And do you agree that Maria deserved to end up with him?

I realize I'm of minority opinion.

 

[RepresentingWrath]

Not every action has a consequence. I know I shouldn't mention it, but you can simply look at politics, or some big companies. Absolutely not every action has a consequence. Even a simple person without tremendous power can avoid consequences, but it depends on the personality of the said person.

As for the story, didn't read it, and can't form an opinion based on your description, sorry.

 

[RepresentingDesire]

A big part of my philosophy is that actions have consequences. If a person risks the lives of the entire city for the life of one but manages to save every party, first he may be praised for his capabilities for managing to save both, then he must await the negative consequences of his action. I'm not saying what he did was good or bad; I don't blame him and might even admire him; however, I can in no way encourage his behavior. So it is pretty utilitarian thinking.

Similarly, if a person mentally abuses someone for something, no matter the greater good, and once the abused person finds out that it hurt them to do so, the issue can't be over. The abuser can't be forgiven. There must be some consequences for their action.

Past this point, we are entering spoiler territory.

So how is this related to the series? I'm sure you are aware of Kazuki's character development from vol. 5, if you have read the novel—from a generic protagonist to a compelling but extreme character. The author hadn't deterred from showing his insanity, the comment that he needed Maria like a human needed food to survive (I didn't remember the exact line). He severed ties with his friend, killed Shindou Iroha just to save Maria who was supposedly kidnapped on Daiya's orders, and went against the very wishes of the person he meant to save when she lost her trust on him.

Given that Maria forbade killing even a single person, Kazuki claimed he'd kill everyone in the world and later did so. The world was fictional, but it did prove how far the obsession of his extended. The most insane of all was when he spent 1,095 years (400,000 loops of the blissful day) committing suicide in various and extreme ways possible and losing sanity, just to remember the name of Maria's name.
Seeing Kazuki like this saved Maria from her sister's shadow, and at the end, she married him, helping him with recovery (he couldn't speak or function like a human after the experience).

Now, if it isn't clear, I totally abhor Kazuki. He is not just a mad dog. His obsession with Maria and her ending up with her isn't something I celebrate. There hadn't been any consequences for him. Even his friend made up.

So my questions for you are: Did you like Kazuki? And do you agree that Maria should have ended up with him?

I realize I'm of minority opinion.

I haven't read the book but from what I heard, I definitely respect him and hope he will find happiness.
I see obsession as nothing bad.

On a philosophical level I agree every action has consequences or rather effects. Every action taken has effects, it's causality that rules everything.
Ones opinion on the matter of the action or rather cause is an effect.
It doesn't matter how "good" or "bad" an action is.
It only matters how other people react, everything else is unimportant, and even the reactions are unimportant if they cause nothing or if they are silenced.

 

[Deleted member 76176]

Not every action has a consequence. I know I shouldn't mention it, but you can simply look at politics, or some big companies. Absolutely not every action has a consequence. Even a simple person without tremendous power can avoid consequences, but it depends on the personality of the said person.

As for the story, didn't read it, and can't form an opinion based on your description, sorry.

Should have mentioned a point. Yeah, not every action has consequences. Reality doesn't work like that. The point of grimdark novels I enjoy so much is the grim and unfairness of reality.
HakoMari is not one such story, though. A pretty bad and unequal example would be if a girl grows and toughens herself the entire period of the novel to confess to a guy, and he rejects her at the end, the whole set up and everything would be pointless. You can't just say reality is often unfair here. Or if Light Yagami lived a normal life after the death note incident.

 

[RepresentingWrath]

Should have mentioned a point. Yeah, not every action has consequences. Reality doesn't work like that. The point of grimdark novels I enjoy so much is the grim and unfairness of reality.
HakoMari is not one such story, though. A pretty bad and unequal example would be if a girl grows and toughens herself the entire period of the novel to confess to a guy, and he rejects her at the end, the whole set up and everything would be pointless. You can't just say reality is often unfair here. Or if Light Yagami lived a normal life after the death note incident.

Maybe it will work if you start thinking of MC as a villain that almost got away scott-free at the end? Won't it be a rather dark ending? Something like a Clockwork Orange?

 

[Deleted member 146224]

A big part of my philosophy is that actions have consequences. If a person risks the lives of the entire city for the life of one but manages to save every party, first he may be praised for his capabilities for managing to save both, then he must await the negative consequences of his action. I'm not saying what he did was good or bad; I don't blame him and might even admire him; however, I can in no way encourage his behavior. So it is pretty utilitarian thinking.

Similarly, if a person mentally abuses someone for something, no matter the greater good, and once the abused person finds out that it hurt them to do so, the issue can't be over. The abuser can't be forgiven. There must be some consequences for their action.

Past this point, we are entering spoiler territory.

So how is this related to the series? I'm sure you are aware of Kazuki's character development from vol. 5, if you have read the novel—from a generic protagonist to a compelling but extreme character. The author hadn't deterred from showing his insanity, making the comment that he needed Maria like a human needed food to survive (I didn't remember the exact line). He severed ties with his friends, killed his friend Shindou Iroha just to save Maria who was supposedly kidnapped on Daiya's orders, and went against the very wishes of the person he meant to save, during which she lost her trust on him.

Given that Maria forbade killing even a single person, Kazuki claimed he'd kill everyone in the world and later did so. The world was fictional, but it did prove how far the obsession of his extended. The most insane of all was when he spent 1,095 years (400,000 loops of the blissful day) committing suicide in various and extreme ways possible and losing sanity, just to remember the name of Maria's name.
Seeing Kazuki like this saved Maria from her sister's shadow, and at the end, she married him, helping him with recovery (he couldn't speak or function like a human after the experience).

Now, if it isn't clear, I totally abhor Kazuki. He is not just a mad dog. His obsession with Maria and him ending up with her isn't something I celebrate. There hadn't been any consequences for him. Even his friend made up.

So my questions for you are: Did you like Kazuki? And do you agree that Maria deserved to end up with him?

I realize I'm of minority opinion.

I haven't read the book, but I have encountered characters like this on multiple occasion. Every time it makes me feel very frustrated when they are framed as some kind of "hero" by other characters. Even worse when they get some weird "redemption arc" and everyone seems to completely forget everything they did.

I absolutely hate characters like this and I avoid at any cost.

 

[Rezcore]

Not every action has a consequence. I know I shouldn't mention it, but you can simply look at politics, or some big companies. Absolutely not every action has a consequence. Even a simple person without tremendous power can avoid consequences, but it depends on the personality of the said person.

As for the story, didn't read it, and can't form an opinion based on your description, sorry.

I disagree about the political one. There are consequences, it's just the citizens that face them

 

[Succubiome]

Given that Maria forbade killing even a single person, Kazuki claimed he'd kill everyone in the world and later did so. The world was fictional, but it did prove how far the obsession of his extended. The most insane of all was when he spent 1,095 years (400,000 loops of the blissful day) committing suicide in various and extreme ways possible and losing sanity, just to remember Maria's name.
Seeing Kazuki like this saved Maria from her sister's shadow, and at the end, she married him, helping him with recovery (he couldn't speak or function like a human after the experience).

Now, if it isn't clear, I totally abhor Kazuki. He is not just a mad dog. His obsession with Maria and him ending up with her isn't something I celebrate. There hadn't been any consequences for him. Even his friend made up.

So my questions for you are: Did you like Kazuki? And do you agree that Maria deserved to end up with him?

I realize I'm of minority opinion.

...haven't read, but I dunno, 400,000 loops of suicide and then ending up that he couldn't speak or function like a human... that's consequence-free?

Maybe it's not a compelling resolution given he was doing what Maria was opposed to, but like....

 

[TsumiHokiro]

Every action has consequences. These consequences, however, do not return in the same intensity we expect on the one who committed the actions, but might disperse in the system (Also called Chaos if you will).

Considering Japanese novels, it would have been quite of a predictable ending. It has been quite a while since authors have given up writing their more philosophical sided novels where things don't end up well for their protagonist (Especially if you are reading something that is not tagged for an older age group; The final happy ending is almost a must in these cases). Unless it has the appropriate beginning and story that follows for that kind of ending (a true tragedy story, without ambivalent feelings).

As for your specific story, I have not read, and while your argument is sound, from your words alone, and I'm compelled to agree with it, It is also not the most unbiased description of the story I have seen to be fair.

 

[HeavenlyKillerStar]

This truly has been one of the most Scribble Hub posts of all time, it reminds of when the strongest Scribble Hub post of history fought against the the strongest Scribble Hub post of today.