Annoying Tropes

[Rezcore]

This is an short list of tropes I despise to varying degrees:

Mary and Gary Sue: we all like Op characters, make it logical. (My upcoming fantasy story the Mc is is op physically and intellectually, but being intelligent does make you smart, thus I'm putting him into a setting of internal and geopolitical intrigue.)

System: I have a love hate relationship with systems, if there is a good reason, sort of how Solo Leveling indicates that the original Shadow Monarch and the Administrator made it to make the MC strong, and so he could understand it. Otherwise it's just a, here is a cool thing with no explanation as to why it's a thing. It's not like you can't do a leveling fantasy without it, have a stone or blackboard that can show your level.

Guns don't work: I'm a gun nut, I have a [redacted redacted redacted redacted redacted] just don't tell the ATF. My biggest issue is with stories that introduce dungeons, what the fuck do you mean this gun won't work because [insert bullshit rule/excuse here], just do the smart thing, once you enter gate, you can't leave, and others can't enter until the boss is dead. I'm sorry but a .50 BMG is gonna do damage because physics will physics. The other issue is that of mcs in pre-industrial worlds suddenly making modern firearms. No, I have 13 years of gunsmithing experience, put me in the 1300's and I ain't making a darn glock, a colt single maybe, if I can find a metalsmith worth his salt. The technique is complicated and simple, but technology is important.

Technology: that's another thing; dude tries to industrialize his new world, starts with steam engines or the equivalent. Never once focuses on such things like the cotton gin or other pre industrial items that made it possible.

Food: if your world is a medieval European setting, get rid of Tomatos, corn, potatoes and Peppers. These were domesticated in the new world. If the do exist in your world, at least make a good reason. The reason is simple; culture comprises of food, traditions, art and history. If the same existed pre Columbus in the old world, culture would have been drastically different.

Clothes: not really a problem for pure literature, but manga and manhwas set in the pre Renaissance type eras irritate me when you see outfits that didn't exist until the pre industrial to pre modern eras.

Tldr: Aader is grouchy and finds reasons to bitch about fiction.

BTW: I've decided to copyright my stories under an llc, mainly because I plan to make some into games, comic and animations in the future. So my stories will fall under my new company Agency7's Seraphic Pen Studios. Do you like my potential logo?

 

[Nexus_English]

 

[Deleted member 84247]

It's system for me when there is no point. And a lot of time it literally doesn't do anything, but give a box.

 

[Rezcore]

It's system for me when there is no point. And a lot of time it literally doesn't do anything, but give a box.

Especially when there are less anachronistic methods, want a large inventory, item bag, want a dimensional store, golden Goblin (but watch out, they will attempt to rob you) want levels, got to a guild hall or church. Systems are usually lazy af. That said, Almighty Daughter Rules the World (Chinese novel) handled the system in an interesting manner.

 

[TheEldritchGod]

This is an short list of tropes I despise to varying degrees:

Mary and Gary Sue: we all like Op characters, make it logical. (My upcoming fantasy story the Mc is is op physically and intellectually, but being intelligent does make you smart, thus I'm putting him into a setting of internal and geopolitical intrigue.)

Define logical.

System: I have a love hate relationship with systems, if there is a good reason, sort of how Solo Leveling indicates that the original Shadow Monarch and the Administrator made it to make the MC strong, and so he could understand it. Otherwise it's just a, here is a cool thing with no explanation as to why it's a thing. It's not like you can't do a leveling fantasy without it, have a stone or blackboard that can show your level.

My problem is that people have systems without actually having a system. For example I could have a stat sheet with:

Stronk
Swole
Rizz
Chutzpah
Smert
FPS

And they are just numbers. They don't actually have a system for how those numbers are used. I wouldn't mind a system, if someone actually had written the system. Which is why I have a system in A Rules Lawyer Stuck in a Literal RPG, because I wrote 112 handbooks on the system I am using so when I say, Beekeeper Outfits are the single most overpowered armor you can buy, and every adventurer needs a pair of stilts two feet high because of a rules loophole that allows you to move while paralyzed, I know exactly WHY.

Guns don't work: I'm a gun nut, I have a [redacted redacted redacted redacted redacted] just don't tell the ATF. My biggest issue is with stories that introduce dungeons, what the fuck do you mean this gun won't work because [insert bullshit rule/excuse here], just do the smart thing, once you enter gate, you can't leave, and others can't enter until the boss is dead. I'm sorry but a .50 BMG is gonna do damage because physics will physics. The other issue is that of mcs in pre-industrial worlds suddenly making modern firearms. No, I have 13 years of gunsmithing experience, put me in the 1300's and I ain't making a darn glock, a colt single maybe, if I can find a metalsmith worth his salt. The technique is complicated and simple, but technology is important.

Again, reasons is what matters. I have fundamental changes in the length of Pi, the effect of an entire set of particles I constructed for the purposes of explaining the physics of my magic system, and the proximity of Dark matter on the effects of magic, memes, life, and electromagnetism. The effects of why gunpowder isn't working right is quite obvious if you understand how the universe is structured on a quantum level.

I think the problem is more the lack of explanation.

Technology: that's another thing; dude tries to industrialize his new world, starts with steam engines or the equivalent. Never once focuses on such things like the cotton gin or other pre industrial items that made it possible.

The romans invented the steam engine. It existed long before the cotton gin. many scientific achievements existed long before they were popularized because nobody knew how to apply them. Aluminum used to be worth more than gold, but if one knew how to properly apply lightning magic, Aluminum would become rather easy to mass produce. Introducing magic/alternate scientific rules changes the conditions under which science would manifest itself in the products of modern society.

Food: if your world is a medieval European setting, get rid of Tomatos, corn, potatoes and Peppers. These were domesticated in the new world. If the do exist in your world, at least make a good reason. The reason is simple; culture comprises of food, traditions, art and history. If the same existed pre Columbus in the old world, culture would have been drastically different.

And if the setting is one created from the memetic energy of a story? So if the original author wrote the existence of tomatoes into his bad fanfiction, wouldn't the tomato be in the world the MC is transported to?

Again, a complaint that seems dependent on the explanation as to why something exists, not that it exists. I mean, what is your problem with Red sauce?

Clothes: not really a problem for pure literature, but manga and manhwas set in the pre Renaissance type eras irritate me when you see outfits that didn't exist until the pre industrial to pre modern eras.

Again, if the world the MC is in is one created from a poorly written story, then wouldn't poorly written elements be REQUIRED in the world? It is something the MC of HKN comments on from time to time.

 

[Corty]

Technology: that's another thing; dude tries to industrialize his new world, starts with steam engines or the equivalent. Never once focuses on such things like the cotton gin or other pre industrial items that made it possible.

Why would someone go step by step when you already know what needs to be done to get to the finish line? This sounds stupid.

You know where your destination is and know all the shortcuts leading to it. You won't go through the 30-minute walk if you can do it in 15 minutes. Please...

 

[Deleted member 76176]

I don't mind them as long as things are believable and consistent. If the clothing trend is too modern for the world or has minor historical inaccuracies, that's okay, as long as they are consistent and believable (A medieval kingdom won't have futuristic weapons unless there was a previous modern civilization or alien technology involved, but it makes sense for the clothing trend to progress faster in the world, or even culinary).

More important is that the story has a goal I care about, real stakes for the main character, and appropriate tension for me to turn the pages.

In conclusion, in my opinion the author should be mindful about these points: The story doesn't have real conflicts, only obstacles (delay tactics) to overcome; predictable and unrelated to the overreaching objective; without any setbacks; or when things that get too convenient for the protagonist.

Unless it's Slice of Life, of course.

 

[Iamnotabot]

I have a toxic relationship with face slapping trope, mainly the "dO YoU kNow whO mY Father is ?" Thing, i really hate it but can't stop reading it.

 

[LilRora]

A lot of things you mentioned come simply from ignorance of the author or because they wanted to keep things simple. It's generally that they just want to write something, but can't be bothered to actually study about it to make it accurate.

Frankly though, I don't expect them to. It's not that I like that, but it's kinda ridiculous to expect a fiction writer to be an expert on writing, history, etiquette, science, and whatever else. It's just too much to learn it all in a reasonable amount of time for the purpose of writing a story. It's another thing if a person who already has that knowledge writes a story, but those are rare.

There's a lot I could say there about my own attempt at writing a realistic sci-fi, but I'll just say it's hard. There's a ton things I didm't know that I had to look up, and there's a lot I don't even know I don't know before I stumble upon the knowledge while studying something else.

I think, just, try to separate your standards into two parts. The low standard for random fiction you find on the internet, and the higher standard for published books and for the best rated on the internet.

 

[georgelee5786]

Nice logo

 

[MatchaChocolate69]

They just work

 

[Rezcore]

Nice logo

Thank you


As for the rest, I'm not saying that any of the above are actually a true problem.

Define logical

I'm that context I was referring to over powered characters, like Saitama, that more or less break the rule of a verse. Some characters are just too good, like they ace literally everything they try.

Again this is all my pet peeves and should be taken as a universal truth.

And if the setting is one created from the memetic energy of a story? So if the original author wrote the existence of tomatoes into his bad fanfiction, wouldn't the tomato be in the world the MC is transported to?

Again, a complaint that seems dependent on the explanation as to why something exists, not that it exists. I mean, what is your problem with Red sauce?

Food is something that helps shape culture, as an example, China was able to grow wheat and rice, this lead to the invention of noodles, which has become a cultural phenomenon of East Asia. If you do add these foods, you should at least recognize the importance and effect they had on preexisting cultures. And I fucking love tomatoes.

The romans invented the steam engine. It existed long before the cotton gin. many scientific achievements existed long before they were popularized because nobody knew how to apply them. Aluminum used to be worth more than gold, but if one knew how to properly apply lightning magic, Aluminum would become rather easy to mass produce. Introducing magic/alternate scientific rules changes the conditions under which science would manifest itself in the products of modern society.

It was invented by Herron, and only used to open a temple door in ancient Greece. Admittedly the Greco-Romans had a Trip hammer type factory, which was cool.
I promise I am not just picking on you.

I don't mind them as long as things are believable and consistent. If the clothing trend is too modern for the world or has minor historical inaccuracies, that's okay, as long as they are consistent and believable (A medieval kingdom won't have futuristic weapons unless there was a previous modern civilization or alien technology involved, but it makes sense for the clothing trend to progress faster in the world, or even culinary).

More important is that the story has a goal I care about, real stakes for the main character, and appropriate tension for me to turn the pages.

In conclusion, in my opinion the author should be mindful about these points: The story doesn't have real conflicts, only obstacles (delay tactics) to overcome; predictable and unrelated to the overreaching objective; without any setbacks; or when things that get too convenient for the protagonist.

Unless it's Slice of Life, of course.

I actually agree, but I also love immersion, and seeing something in a story that is anachronistic can ruin said story.

I have a toxic relationship with face slapping trope, mainly the "dO YoU kNow whO mY Father is ?" Thing, i really hate it but can't stop reading it.

I hate those too, mostly. The best is when those characters get humbled.

Why would someone go step by step when you already know what needs to be done to get to the finish line? This sounds stupid.

You know where your destination is and know all the shortcuts leading to it. You won't go through the 30-minute walk if you can do it in 15 minutes. Please...

Sometimes the short cuts cause logical fallacies that can break the immersion of the story you're telling

 

[Deleted member 76176]

I actually agree, but I also love immersion, and seeing something in a story that is anachronistic can ruin said story.

Which is fair. When a reader reads something, they place certain expectations on the author, which is the reason the reader reads in the first place.

If, in a medieval setting, I see nobels portrayed in a very unnoble-like way, it is going to hurt my immersion, and the chances are likely that I'm going to drop it. Overall, this is a broader issue with the setting. These expectations, however, are also highly arbitrary; you are reading a web novel rather than a book written by a well-known author for a reason. ---> I agree with what LilRora says here.

On the topic of modern-day knowledge application in a technologically unadvanced setting, I don't think industrializing is the problem more than how swimmingly it goes for the protagonist.

Protagonist: I need this.
"Say less"

 

[RepresentingDesire]

I hate the trope that an entire race is the same, or rather that a race is either completely "good" or "evil". If there is an explanation, I'm okay with the trope but most of the time there is no explanation. I read one novel where there could have been a nuanced story why an entire race evil is, but it was an accident and the author more or less denied it. I dislike too the average isekai protagonist but there are some spins that can make the trope fun, if you like disgusting characters.

 

[CarburetorThompson]

Guns don't work: I'm a gun nut, I have a [redacted redacted redacted redacted redacted] just don't tell the ATF. My biggest issue is with stories that introduce dungeons, what the fuck do you mean this gun won't work because [insert bullshit rule/excuse here], just do the smart thing, once you enter gate, you can't leave, and others can't enter until the boss is dead. I'm sorry but a .50 BMG is gonna do damage because physics will physics. The other issue is that of mcs in pre-industrial worlds suddenly making modern firearms. No, I have 13 years of gunsmithing experience, put me in the 1300's and I ain't making a darn glock, a colt single maybe, if I can find a metalsmith worth his salt. The technique is complicated and simple, but technology is important.

I always find guns vs magic/super powers so annoying. Sure magic can block a bullet, but can you cast magic faster than the speed of sound? If a swordsman can block the fire of a machine gun with their sword, then they should be making a bunch of noise as they’re constantly breaking the sound barrier.

I think people really underestimate the destructive power of modern weaponry. Especially nuclear bombs. I think the destructive power of modern nuclear weapons to an average human is near as incomprehensible as understanding the size of infinity. So when I see a character shrug off the power of a nuclear explosion I just roll my eyes. You’re telling me a nuclear explosion won’t hurt Superman, but getting punched by another kyrptonian will? Hate stupid shit like that

 

[prognastat]

Which is fair. When a reader reads something, they place certain expectations on the author, which is the reason the reader reads in the first place.

If, in a medieval setting, I see nobels portrayed in a very unnoble-like way, it is going to hurt my immersion, and the chances are likely that I'm going to drop it. Overall, this is a broader issue with the setting. These expectations, however, are also highly arbitrary; you are reading a web novel rather than a book written by a well-known author for a reason. ---> I agree with what LilRora says here.

On the topic of modern-day knowledge application in a technologically unadvanced setting, I don't think industrializing is the problem more than how swimmingly it goes for the protagonist.

Protagonist: I need this.
"Say less"

The one that gets me is the oppressed child in a noble family. I have no problem with the other family members oppressing them, however in royal and noble families there is no way servants that were considered barely above slaves would be allowed to denigrate someone with royal/noble blood. Like that would get them tortured and worse in most places with noble/royals in power.

People just don't get how nobles/royals used to see themselves in medieval settings. Usually insulting even the lowest member of their bloodline would have been seen as an insult to the family even if said family member was disliked by the entire family. They would have seen themselves as a higher sort of human simply by virtue of their birth/bloodline. They wouldn't care that the person in specific was being denigrated, but how this would reflect on the family.

They didn't want their lessers to get ideas above their station like that they could insult their family or possibly even rebel.

The closest analogy would be having a slave plantation and the owner has a family and for some reason they are perfectly fine with the slaves just insulting and harming the son the owner didn't like very much. Like that just wouldn't be a thing that happened.

It's not enough to get me to stop reading, but definitely harms my immersion.

I always find guns vs magic/super powers so annoying. Sure magic can block a bullet, but can you cast magic faster than the speed of sound? If a swordsman can block the fire of a machine gun with their sword, then they should be making a bunch of noise as they’re constantly breaking the sound barrier.

I think people really underestimate the destructive power of modern weaponry. Especially nuclear bombs. I think the destructive power of modern nuclear weapons to an average human is near as incomprehensible as understanding the size of infinity. So when I see a character shrug off the power of a nuclear explosion I just roll my eyes. You’re telling me a nuclear explosion won’t hurt Superman, but getting punched by another kyrptonian will? Hate stupid shit like that

I don't think that's that strange. I mean if I smash my paper cup into my ceramic cup the ceramic cup is unharmed. If I smash it into another ceramic cup though it might get damaged. So a being so powerful an atomic explosion can't hurt it getting hurt by another being of the same level is perfectly logical. The only part requiring suspension of disbelief is the part about a being existing that could resist a nuke.

 

[CarburetorThompson]

I don't think that's that strange. I mean if I smash my paper cup into my ceramic cup the ceramic cup is unharmed. If I smash it into another ceramic cup though it might get damaged. So a being so powerful an atomic explosion can't hurt it getting hurt by another being of the same level is perfectly logical. The only part requiring suspension of disbelief is the part about a being existing that could resist a nuke.

The thing is though, a punch strong enough to hurt someone who can’t be damaged by a nuke, would have explosive power far greater than a nuke. It would not only hurt the target, but kill thousands

 

[prognastat]

The thing is though, a punch strong enough to hurt someone who can’t be damaged by a nuke, would have explosive power far greater than a nuke. It would not only hurt the target, but kill thousands

That wasn't the thing you questioned though. You questioned one kryptonian harming another when even a nuke can't hurt a kyptonian. You're completely right that for one kryptonion to hurt another it would require them to punch hard enough to output enough force to exceed the amount of power a nuke has which would effectively destroy everything around the two kryptonians worse than even a nuke had detonated at the point of impact(just without the radiation).

The usual explanation of these things is that kryptonians have some kind of bio-electic field that supports them. Though I think this is just a post-hoc explanation once people started calling out things like superman holding up planes or catching people falling at terminal velocity or spandex resisting wind resistance at supersonic speed when regular physics means both of those would be impossible.