Writing about the opposite gender.

[Asami_Shirogane]

Hello, fellow Authors,

So, I've jumped into the wild world of writing from a woman's perspective (I'm a dude, by the way). But here's the problem: I keep wondering, "Am I doing it right? Is this how women really think, or am I just fumbling in the dark?" Especially when it comes to diving into the character's inner thoughts.

Are you facing the same head-scratching dilemma? Do you think its a breeze, and I'm just an idiot? Or are you just keeping up with the never-ending grind without giving it a second thought?

The perspective of female authors who write about male characters is naturally just as appreciated.

Start reading josei manga, you might learn a thing or two from them. Or just read any romance novel from female authors with a female lead.

 

[John_Owl]

This whole thing is a slightly more specific question in a category "can you write well about something you haven't experienced yourself?". My answer is, you don't have to experience something to write about it, and to do it well. The problems start when you delve into details, because if you haven't experienced something, it's extremely easy to miss something that's either obvious or obscure but important from the other side, but not so much from yours.

I think, if you want to commit to writing something of the sort seriously, just read up on as much as you can around those topics (it can be either fiction with a female mc by a female author or something more, like, from this side, preferably both), but don't try to describe too much details until you're sure you have them right. It's not that hard to follow a good story to get an idea how it should look, and actually writing one yourself, if you use the good one as a sort of guide, shouldn't end up badly. If you try to deviate from it though, it's easy to step on a landmine.

The issue is, deviating from it is kind of inevitable. You'll always have that part of your story where you're not certain the way you wrote is the best you could do. And well, you can just roll with it and learn as you write, or you can study up and make sure you're not making mistakes. That's your call. Both options have pros and cons.

If you want to write a story like that, nothing's stopping you, and struggling with it is entirely normal; I've experienced a lot of it myself, although it was less related to gender and more to profession. A lot of times it's a great learning opportunity in itself.

This is why I write fantasy. any major issues can be glazed over with "magic". Or it's an entirely different world. perhaps humans evolved slightly differently there. Or I write fantasy races. Perhaps elven or dragongirl or whatever biology is different enough that what's a concern for IRL women simply isn't for them. can't fact check what isn't factual.

The problem here is you’re not going to the individual level. Women are different from each other, so writing a woman is uniquely up to the author.

Indeed. you've got women ranging from masculine to feminine, from tomboys to girly girls, from "basically a dude without a penis" to "her whole personality is a giant vagina". so really there is no single correct answer. if your character needs validation, 1 individual out of 3 billion is enough for the character to be valid, as it's proof that it's theoretically possible for such a person to exist.

[Note: All of this can be reversed. men are just as varied.]

 

[Roseofblades]

The more I'm reading all these threads about how to write a female MC, the more I feel like I should start a detailed thread about the in-and-outs like a sort of how-to guide.

 

[Placeholder]

Just write a male character, flip the gender, and have her have to put up with a touch of sexism. Oh, and avoid the intro scene where she gets dressed and thinks about her tits.

> "Speaking to The L.A. Times, Scott explained how Ripley was originally written as a man. Discussing the gender flip, Scott said, "I think the idea actually came from Alan Ladd Jr. I think it was Alan Ladd [then president of 20th Century Fox] who said, 'Why can’t Ripley be a woman?' And there was a long pause, that at that moment I never thought about it. I thought, why not, it's a fresh direction, the ways I thought about that. And away we went.""
https://www.cbr.com/alien-ridley-sc...emale/#:~:text=Speaking to The,away we went."

 

[BlackKnightX]

Try reading stuff by female authors.

 

[Jemini]

My advise would be don't write a woman, write a character who happens to be a woman. The character's gender is just one part of who they are.

And, just as you would do with any character, start forming their personality in the same way you would create it for a male character. You can use some of the other advise you've gotten in this thread to figure out what wants or activities they enjoy that would be different from a typical male character, but never forget that you're writing a character, not a generic "woman."

I've often touted the amazing writing in Worm before, and the way in which it handled a very strong and believably female character was one of the ways in which the writing of that series just blew everything else out of the water. As you read through it, you can start to see where in every way Taylor does come off as more of an aggressive and masculine female character, but you are not struck even once with the idea that she's just written as a male with a female identity. There are many places where she has more female interactions and approaches problems in a more female-thinking way, but her experiences have lead her to thinking on a basis of power and using that power to protect and survive first and foremost.

Perhaps a more accessible way to engage with a highly masculine-seeming female character of this sort would be to look at the personality and motivations of Lady Eboshi from Princess Mononoke. She is a female leader of the frontier settlement trying to gain power and a footing to fight back against the conquering empire encroaching in on them, fighting for the very survival of her people. She uses the trappings of civilization and technology to give jobs to people who would have died or been trampled on if left on their own, and by bringing together these individually weak people, she forms this community into a strong civilization.

(People tend to focus in on the title character and the male lead when casually watching Princess Mononoke and discount Lady Eboshi as the 'evil of man' antagonist, but once you start recognizing Princess Mononoke for it's real message that it's a fight of the safety of civilization Vs. the cruelty of nature, and neither side is actually correct in this fight, you start to appreciate Lady Eboshi a lot more and find that not only the message, but the characters have a lot of depth to them. And, in this case, this character in particular is a good showcase for the question being asked here.)

Of course, these are examples for if you want to write a strong female character taking on traditionally masculine roles from a female perspective. If you want to write your character to be more feminine, you'll have to go about it a little differently.

 

[Paul__Michaels]

well, this thread got over complicated...

 

[Sergeandgreen]

Start reading josei manga, you might learn a thing or two from them. Or just read any romance novel from female authors with a female lead.

Well, I don't think a manga would really work, as most fail to display the thought process. And most mangas are just a bit over the top. I think I will go with a novel, and I'm currently looking for an appropriate novel to learn from.

well, this thread got over complicated...

Well, technically i just wanted to know if others have the same problem, but it turned out that most wanted to give me advices. I mean i appreaciate those but technically it wasn't my intention when I made the thread.
Wow, that was a lot of text, and surprisingly insightful. I will definitely take you up on your offer.
Just a question, what means you are flirtatious with everyone? I mean that for example is something I have difficulties with. Why do you do something like that? If it's just between friends and it is kind of a joke, I could understand it, but not really as a general way to approach people.
Another thing would be, what would flirtatious mean for you? Is it conciously, and in what ways do you express that?

 

[RepresentingCaution]

It depends on if the female character has procreated or not. Before she does, the sound of a crying baby is merely annoying. After she does, she's biologically driven to do everything in her power to comfort it.

 

[Deleted member 133647]

It depends on if the female character has procreated or not. Before she does, the sound of a crying baby is merely annoying. After she does, she's biologically driven to do everything in her power to comfort it.

.....WHAT ABOUT MY MOTHER????

 

[RepresentingCaution]

.....WHAT ABOUT MY MOTHER????

There are exceptions to every rule.

 

[Roseofblades]

Well, I don't think a manga would really work, as most fail to display the thought process. And most mangas are just a bit over the top. I think I will go with a novel, and I'm currently looking for an appropriate novel to learn from.

Well, technically i just wanted to know if others have the same problem, but it turned out that most wanted to give me advices. I mean i appreaciate those but technically it wasn't my intention when I made the thread.
Wow, that was a lot of text, and surprisingly insightful. I will definitely take you up on your offer.
Just a question, what means you are flirtatious with everyone? I mean that for example is something I have difficulties with. Why do you do something like that? If it's just between friends and it is kind of a joke, I could understand it, but not really as a general way to approach people.
Another thing would be, what would flirtatious mean for you? Is it conciously, and in what ways do you express that?

Keep in mind everything I'm telling you is specific to me:

As long as I'm comfortable with the people I'm around and I consider everyone friends, I will shamelessly flirt with everyone because we're all adults, we're comfortable with our sexuality, and we all know there is less than 1% chance it will lead to anything beyond just being silly. I'll sit on their laps (or more usually let them sit on mine, since I'm 6'2), make obvious double entendres, but never to the point of making someone uncomfortable. There's zero intention behind it, just doing it purely for fun.

If it's people I don't know... Well, I am very quiet and observant when I don't know someone. I watch and wait to see what type of person they are and if our personalities will mesh well. If we click, I open up pretty quickly... And tend to overshare, not on purpose. I'm awkward and never know what not to say until I've said it.

Now, I'm polyamorous... So I do occasionally flirt with other people who aren't my wife of 14 years. So if there is intention behind it, it will look very different. I might sit next to them (like... RIGHT next to them) Go out of my way to "accidentally" touch them (my hand brushing against theirs as we both reach for something. Adjusting the way I'm sitting and accidentally pressing my shoulder to theirs). I tend to compliment and praise someone a lot, but do so in a way that makes sure they know it's something I noticed about them and how it makes me feel. "Your smile lights up your whole face and makes me smile every time I see it!"

 

[MatchaChocolate69]

As others have already suggested, reading works by female authors and their female characters can be very helpful. I recommend doing so, especially because Scribble Hub is filled with talented female authors. In fact, I've also opened a similar thread, but it mainly focuses on smut content.

OK... Where to start?
Strap in, this is gonna be a lot.

Edit: this was typed on my phone... Please excuse any major typos!

In order to start answering these questions you need to determine what type of character your MC is.
Is she shy, outgoing, flirtatious, overbearing, easygoing, sarcastic, etc?
We tend to be ruled by our emotions, doubly so in writing, so determining what type of character she is will really help narrow down how she will act. For the above questions, I'm going to use myself as an example.
I actually get along better in social situations with men more so than other woman. Straight women anyways. Woman tend to over analyze the shit out of everything, so we often have to monitor what we say to our girl friends. When describing events, focus less on the what and more on how she felt about it.
Writing how she feels about a guy will be more difficult for me to describe, since I'm SUPER gay... But I can go with generalities. The first and most obvious thing is height difference. Unless your MC likes shorter men or same height men, she will definitely notice his height. We inherently want to be protected and having someone to wrap us up in their arms is a huge draw for many women. She will notice his bodily appearance, is he stocky, muscular, how he fills out his shirt. Eyes and smile. I'm gay, but I'm a sucker for a sexy smile regardless of gender. More so from men with a nice jawline. The timbre of his voice will be something she will listen closely to. How her name sounds when he says it.
If he's talking to her? I'm super sarcastic and slightly flirtatious with everyone, but I get easily flustered by compliments and praise. I tend to ramble and overshare when I'm talking, and often not think fully before I speak, which can very quickly lead to some awkwardness if I say something odd or heavy with accidental entendre. When this happens I try to deflect with humor or something quick-witted, otherwise I'll just blush a lot and just sort of get quiet.

Parents depend entirely on her relationship with them and how her parents view her. Is she a daddy's girl, does she get talk about girly stuff with mom, how much of her personal life is she open with them about?
Outward appearance. Oof. This one is difficult. Context. If I'm just hanging out with friends and not attempting to impress anyone, I don't give two fucks about any of it, even if my crush is involved (jeans/shorts, tank top, sports bra, hoodie) I'm a person, and I don't want to feel pressured to always look and be 110%. But if I'm attempting to impress them, I will start with thing that are still in that realm but draw more attention to what I find attractive about myself. For me, that's my boobs. I have 42 G cups. My ladies are bountiful, and despite the back issues I like how they look on me. 80% of my shirts show a lot of cleavage (it's hard not to unless the shirts are oversized). Your MC will do the same. She will wear things that inherently draw attention towards the part of her she finds attractive.
In social settings, I like to be the center of attention. I'm usually the DM with my group of friends, I usually pick what activity we're going to do or what topic we're talking about. Now, if I don't know the people I'm around or the environment I'm in, I'm the exact opposite. I watch to see how people are, how they respond to one another, what level of quirkiness the group has. Once I'm comfortable I morph back into the social butterfly.

OK. I've written a novel. If there's something I didn't cover or something you want more info about, feel to message me.

Very helpful, thank you.

 

[prognastat]

I think the more important question is who are you primarily writing for?

If you are targeting a male audience then chances are they aren't going to judge too harshly about what you write as if it appeals to you as a man then chances are it will appeal to most of your male audience(unless your tastes are very out of the norm).

If however you are targeting a female audience primarily or just as much of a male one then the advice to read female authors writing female characters to get a better idea of the things they tend to focus on would be what I would echo.

If you start reading stories from the female perspective by female authors and it holds no appeal for you you might have to reconsider if this is the kind of story/audience you want to be writing as writing something you don't enjoy isn't going to be great in the long run. As a writing exercise on a short story it could be great to stretch your abilities though, just not what I would recommend for a longer story.

As for the advice that it shouldn't make a difference, I will just say I disagree. Even very masculine presenting women tend to still do so with a very different perspective than men do. Sure men and women have plenty of overlap, but they also have noticeable differences and different perspectives.

 

[LuoirM]

I just yolo, if I go wrong I can always kms

 

[Lodur]

Well, I don't think a manga would really work, as most fail to display the thought process.

Speaking of the thought process: James Joyce's Ulysses is famous for its use of the literary device known as "stream of consciousness", and the last chapter of the novel contains a description of the thought process of a woman (Molly Bloom), which many women consider to be quite close to authentic (despite the fact that the author is a man). Well, not all women think so, some believe that Joyce “sexualizes” this heroine too much. But this is a controversial issue.

 

[Deleted member 133647]

Keep in mind everything I'm telling you is specific to me:

As long as I'm comfortable with the people I'm around and I consider everyone friends, I will shamelessly flirt with everyone because we're all adults, we're comfortable with our sexuality, and we all know there is less than 1% chance it will lead to anything beyond just being silly. I'll sit on their laps (or more usually let them sit on mine, since I'm 6'2), make obvious double entendres, but never to the point of making someone uncomfortable. There's zero intention behind it, just doing it purely for fun.

If it's people I don't know... Well, I am very quiet and observant when I don't know someone. I watch and wait to see what type of person they are and if our personalities will mesh well. If we click, I open up pretty quickly... And tend to overshare, not on purpose. I'm awkward and never know what not to say until I've said it.

Now, I'm polyamorous... So I do occasionally flirt with other people who aren't my wife of 14 years. So if there is intention behind it, it will look very different. I might sit next to them (like... RIGHT next to them) Go out of my way to "accidentally" touch them (my hand brushing against theirs as we both reach for something. Adjusting the way I'm sitting and accidentally pressing my shoulder to theirs). I tend to compliment and praise someone a lot, but do so in a way that makes sure they know it's something I noticed about them and how it makes me feel. "Your smile lights up your whole face and makes me smile every time I see it!"

I aint read nothing past 6'2
How YOU doin?

 

[Sergeandgreen]

I think the more important question is who are you primarily writing for?

If you are targeting a male audience then chances are they aren't going to judge too harshly about what you write as if it appeals to you as a man then chances are it will appeal to most of your male audience(unless your tastes are very out of the norm).

If however you are targeting a female audience primarily or just as much of a male one then the advice to read female authors writing female characters to get a better idea of the things they tend to focus on would be what I would echo.

If you start reading stories from the female perspective by female authors and it holds no appeal for you you might have to reconsider if this is the kind of story/audience you want to be writing as writing something you don't enjoy isn't going to be great in the long run. As a writing exercise on a short story it could be great to stretch your abilities though, just not what I would recommend for a longer story.

As for the advice that it shouldn't make a difference, I will just say I disagree. Even very masculine presenting women tend to still do so with a very different perspective than men do. Sure men and women have plenty of overlap, but they also have noticeable differences and different perspectives.

I write the story with the female lead for self-improvement and because it's genuinely enjoyable for me. And I usually write for myself, and I only share my stories because I like discussing them with others. The first story, in particular, is designed for everyone to imagine what they would do in the main character's shoes or write their ideas for a possible future arc. When I write, I aim (with my amateurish skills) for maximum immersion. That means creating characters that feel real. At least that's the goal. So even if I decide to move on from the story with the female lead, the experience gained should help me write more authentic interactions with female characters in other stories.

I understand that most readers might not notice or care about these differences, and that's perfectly fine. However, for me, if I think a character feels off or just like a physically weak man without dick, it's not a satisfying writing experience. In most situations, this isn't a glaring issue since I can depict characters as I please. Yet, in some rare but crucial moments, like scenes with the love interest, I find it challenging to meet my own expectations, despite receiving positive feedback from those who commented on these scenes I already wrote.

I'm not really sure if what I write is for a male or female audience, as I'm not specifically targeting any audience. I just write the story how I would like it to be, and I think both could enjoy my story, even though I think the genre is more popular with men.