Does a villain always have to be redeemed?

[J_Chemist]

No. My book will have a 90% death rate of all active characters by the end of it. No one is safe.

 

[KrakenRiderEmma]

If you go back and look at originals, a lot of Disney villains just get killed, not redeemed.

Snow White: falls off a cliff then crushed by a boulder
Sleeping Beauty: stabbed in the heart, assumes final form, falls off a cliff
Little Mermaid: impaled by a ship, struck by lightning, sinks into the depths
Beauty and the Beast: falls of a castle and dies in the moat
Aladdin: imprisoned in a magic lamp (then melted in lava, in sequel)
Lion King: eaten by hyenas
Lady and the Tramp: eaten by the hero
Mulan: blown up by explosives
Tangled: rapidly ages into dust

A bunch of others go to prison or whatever. I always think of shonen manga as being the biggest genre for “beat villain, now he is your grouchy friend.”

 

[RepresentingWrath]

No. My book will have a 90% death rate of all active characters by the end of it. No one is safe.

Include at least one death by snu snu or we riot.

 

[Tyranomaster]

I think everyone can agree it just depends on the villain.

Some people only appear villainous, but they have their reasons. Sometimes though, those reasons do conflict irreparably with other people, and then they are irredeemable.

 

[TUSOG]

I want more villains to not get redeemed.

More heros to lose

I am tired of everything just working out in the end. Sometimes that lesson to not trust people in the future in the ending. Not this last-minute attempt to redeem a villain and explain their very weird actions to give us some sort of happy ending.

Disney makes me want to go on a rant.

 

[CrimsonGenius]

If you go back and look at originals, a lot of Disney villains just get killed, not redeemed.

Snow White: falls off a cliff then crushed by a boulder
Sleeping Beauty: stabbed in the heart, assumes final form, falls off a cliff
Little Mermaid: impaled by a ship, struck by lightning, sinks into the depths
Beauty and the Beast: falls of a castle and dies in the moat
Aladdin: imprisoned in a magic lamp (then melted in lava, in sequel)
Lion King: eaten by hyenas
Lady and the Tramp: eaten by the hero
Mulan: blown up by explosives
Tangled: rapidly ages into dust

A bunch of others go to prison or whatever. I always think of shonen manga as being the biggest genre for “beat villain, now he is your grouchy friend.”

Who was the villain in Lady and the Tramp? Did Dog eat Dog?

 

[BearlyAlive]

No. Villains are there to be villains, not to be crappy little sob stories that make you feel bad for ever not kicking the puppy that pissed Willy the villainous villain on the leg when he was a kindergarten kid, which set him on a journey to destroy the world. Those are antagonists, not villains. Same position in storytelling, a whole lot of differences between them.

If you want to redeem a villain you have to set them and their arc up from the start. That means you have to put as much if not even more work into those characters as the MC, not just dropping a few lines about how the now obviously (to anyone but the readers) ex-villain is sorry and now joins the MC's side. Shounen animanga tend to pull the BS more often than not. I'm looking a you, Fairytail...

Current media has a disturbing lack of "love-to-hate" villains. Characters that are so irredeemable they tend to carry the whole franchise. Just look at the old Disney villains or ask any Honkai Impact 3rd player what they think about Otto. That guy singlehandedly carried the whole story.

 

[RepresentingPride]

No. Villains are there to be villains, not to be crappy little sob stories that make you feel bad for ever not kicking the puppy that pissed Willy the villainous villain on the leg when he was a kindergarten kid, which set him on a journey to destroy the world. Those are antagonists, not villains. Same position in storytelling, a whole lot of differences between them.

If you want to redeem a villain you have to set them and their arc up from the start. That means you have to put as much if not even more work into those characters as the MC, not just dropping a few lines about how the now obviously (to anyone but the readers) ex-villain is sorry and now joins the MC's side. Shounen animanga tend to pull the BS more often than not. I'm looking a you, Fairytail...

Current media has a disturbing lack of "love-to-hate" villains. Characters that are so irredeemable they tend to carry the whole franchise. Just look at the old Disney villains or ask any Honkai Impact 3rd player what they think about Otto. That guy singlehandedly carried the whole story.

it's fun that it's fairy tail you mention and not the talk no jutsu from naruto

 

[BearlyAlive]

it's fun that it's fairy tail you mention and not the talk no jutsu from naruto

Never counted the numbers but I think FT has more if just by virtue of having less filler content but yeah Naruto popularized it. Fun fact: the one that started the redeeming rally, DBZ, almost never gets called out for it.

 

[RepresentingPride]

Never counted the numbers but I think FT has more if just by virtue of having less filler content but yeah Naruto popularized it. Fun fact: the one that started the redeeming rally, DBZ, almost never gets called out for it.

I think Naruto have more than FT. True I don't even remember all of them in Dragon Ball

 

[Viator]

In reality, the definitions of good and evil are mutable, and the villains (or the villainous nature within us) tend to win more often, as the means to be successful within that are often broader. Therefore, in fiction, there is a real desire to not only have more definitively expressed evils, but to fix what we feel powerless to fix within our own existence. We just as often find ourselves in the role of the villain as we do others, so the desire to redeem ourselves, as well as our sympathy for some villains is a natural expression. Who doesn't have some piece of a darker nature or choice that we oft wish to be redeemed from? It's the people who believe they are paragons of virtue who terrify me the most.

 

[CrimsonGenius]

I think Naruto have more than FT. True I don't even remember all of them in Dragon Ball

You could say anybody Goku met was an antagonist/villain. Bulma tired to shoot Goku for a dragonball when they first met.

 

[KrakenRiderEmma]

Who was the villain in Lady and the Tramp? Did Dog eat Dog?

Big rat trying to get a baby.

 

[CrimsonGenius]

Big rat trying to get a baby.

Huh, I guess it wanted to eat the baby then... I go on Disney + to watch it. I'm not sure I have ever seen the movie or not.

 

[SummerSweetTea]

I've always thought most villains in Disney had pretty rough deaths... I mean, Clayton in Tarzan falls through the vines in the jungle and hangs himself.

But in general, no, not every villain is meant to be redeemed. Some are just beyond saving. That being said, there are times when it's okay to have that redemption arc and development.

 

[groudonvert]

I generally prefere a villain with a backstory that explains in some ways how he became like that and/or not generic villains. A villain that lacks backstory and is generic really needs something to appeal to me (the Joker from the Dark Knight and Ivel from Reborn to Master the Blade are villains that I like that are both generic and lacks a backstory, but they both have something that I really like (his crazyness for the Joker and how dark it makes the story and world feel in a mostly joyfull settings in case of Ivel).

My villains are generally like that. Either strong backstory or some reasons why they became like that. One of my main antagonist is completely a generic villain but has an interesting backstory that makes you understand why he became like that. An other is just a Gary-Stu that wanted to save the world... but by setting up the events to save the world as the know-it-all he is, he becomes the reason why the world will be destroyed. Neither of them are redeemable and neither of them will be.

 

[IllyasArt]

Too many people scared to kill off villains and heroes. We need more character deaths.

Killing the villain is fine, but not my mine characters! I need the fluff! If anyone close to the main characters die, the fluff won't be as good!
You know of the rule of cool, but I shall coin the rule of fluff!