Does a villain always have to be redeemed?

CrimsonGenius

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Disney has been lacking in villains or the villain sometimes is redeemed. I'm okay with it to an extent, but sometimes the villain sees the world as a mistake and wants to destroy to reflect their vision. Usually, the hero arrests them or the building falls on top of the villain so the hero does not have to kill them.
 

Prince_Azmiran_Myrian

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Not always. Sometimes evil just needs to be punished.
Though, I haven't watched a Disney movie in years.
 

RCLawrence20

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I love complex, multi-dimensional villains and the Joker villains that know they're bad and want to watch the world burn, with a preference to the latter. It just depends on the story and the execution.
 
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Meh. Disney writes what Disney wants to watch... nowadays anyway. But no, I think villains need to be punished. We read and watch fantasy so we can escape reality, doesn't mean all the rules must change for fantasy. Some rules should not be broken.

 

RepresentingPride

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Disney has been lacking in villains or the villain sometimes is redeemed. I'm okay with it to an extent, but sometimes the villain sees the world as a mistake and wants to destroy to reflect their vision. Usually, the hero arrests them or the building falls on top of the villain so the hero does not have to kill them.
Depending on what they have done there multiple answer. The redeem one, the one when you take every title and land from him, the one when you curse him, the one you torture him, the one you kill him, the one you torture him then kill him then have his soul being tormented before disintegrate it.


Did you know tate no yuusha for exemple? The bitch princess in there got out easily at first even when she accused the mc of rape (who wasn't truth) and nearly killed her sister to have the throne. She got scoled and send in a different kingdom, and then this bitch come back and does way WAY more shit and got what she deserve at the end.
 

CrimsonGenius

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Depending on what they have done there multiple answer. The redeem one, the one when you take every title and land from him, the one when you curse him, the one you torture him, the one you kill him, the one you torture him then kill him then have his soul being tormented before disintegrate it.


Did you know tate no yuusha for exemple? The bitch princess in there got out easily at first even when she accused the mc of rape (who wasn't truth) and nearly killed her sister to have the throne. She got scoled and send in a different kingdom, and then this bitch come back and does way WAY more shit and got what she deserve at the end.
Shield Hero? I am aware of that. She was not the one I was mad at most of the time. It was the spear guy.
 

RepresentingPride

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Shield Hero? I am aware of that. She was not the one I was mad at most of the time. It was the spear guy.
You clearly not read enough then cause what this bitch done later is no near to what happen in the beginning.
 

ThrillingHuman

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Depends. Here's how I would judge.

I haven't watched Disney in years (good riddance), but I like it when a villain is not defeated by the hero, but by fundamental errors in their way of thought or living.

Like in the ancestor of our sect isn't acting like an elder, many villains are ambitious and powerful and smart and crafty and 900 iq but they get defeated not because the main character is too strong or they are too unlucky, but because there would be some problem they a priori would not be able to solve if they acted the way they did - which is why they were villains.

Or in death note, Light gets defeated because he's too arrogant. If he was humbler, he'd win no problem.

This way I find things much easier to understand when it comes to righteousness of characters. We see why a character is "wrong" or "right".

And redeeming them is the same as correcting that flaw in their perception. If it's something minor like arrogance or a personal flaw - then why not redeem them? If it's something much deeper - something fundamental to who they are, then I am not sure it is possible.

After all, characters in the story are not people. In real life a person would be able to go from one extreme to another and back a million times over and change so much they become unrecognisable. A character in a story can do it too - but at that point it is more sound to simply introduce another one instead.

Not to say character development is useless but it should have its boundaries and morphing a certain type of character into something completely different is, imo, a bad practice.

So, basically:
arrogant young master -> not arrogant young antagonist (antagonist =/= villain) ✅
nazi mad scientist -> dr Heinz Doofenschmurtz ❌
 
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ThrillingHuman

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Too many people scared to kill of villains and heroes. We need more character deaths.
 

Tsuru

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No

Sometimes villains need backstory but often not
Viego is praised of being a good villain because his reason of being evil is just a stupid "i want to revive my lover" which is very low and dumb but god its realistic, and isnt a "i want to destroy the world" or other gigantic evil reason

Another sentence i saw in a (police) webnovel
Evil/crime doesnt always need a particular reason to happen
Everyone know about criminal portraying, psychology studying. BUT IN FACT, lot of crimes simply happen without a specific reason.
Bad environment can indeed up the probability of turning someone a criminal, but sometimes, some totally normal person, with most safest growing environment, can turn evil without any trigger event.
 

Jerynboe

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There is literally not a single trope that would make the world better if it became mandatory in every story. So not only no, but hell no. Universal foregone conclusions are lame.
It’s certainly for the best that there are worlds where the genocidal eugenicist CAN turn over a new leaf and make amends for their actions (probably by dying because actually balancing THOSE books would be pretty tough). It’s also good that there are worlds where the traumatized child who just wants revenge for the accidental death of their sibling never gets over it and continues their destructive path to the logical conclusion.
 

ThrillingHuman

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There is literally not a single trope that would make the world better if it became mandatory in every story. So not only no, but hell no. Universal foregone conclusions are lame.
It’s certainly for the best that there are worlds where the genocidal eugenicist CAN turn over a new leaf and make amends for their actions (probably by dying because actually balancing THOSE books would be pretty tough). It’s also good that there are worlds where the traumatized child who just wants revenge for the accidental death of their sibling never gets over it and continues their destructive path to the logical conclusion.
and the worlds where the genocidal eugenicist never turns over a new leaf and carries out his plans to the logical conclusion? *chef kiss*
That character you really love? Envy is not scared to kill them.
just do it
 

RepresentingPride

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You can change it depending on what you want to tell with your story or what you want to do with your villain. You can even have your mc forgive him and let him flee and because of that choice the "little" villain end killing/taking someone/something close to mc.

Your villain don't have to be despicable too. Some story write the villain with the same personality as the mc, just having a different point of view or moral.
 
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