Isn't paladin just warlock with a sharp stick?

[NotaNuffian]

Oath to a deity.

Pact to the devil.

Paladin = Cleric = Warlock.

Iirc the Pointy Hat made an Oath Keeper that kept weird oaths but not to a deity. I forgot how it went and how their "divine" powers are formed.

Also in novels (mostly chinese anyway), the knights would kept virtuous oaths and get said power up, something I don't really understand.

In some ways, they are like scholarly cultivators who are actually one-trick espers (able to cast Mental Strike only) who would do one thing forever, build up "mental energy" on said one thing until the big climax where they release all of said jizz on their enemies.

This is the part where I don't fully understand how all this shit works. Is it like Lyle (Sevens)'s first ancestor with the mana buildup on one final attack? Like 养剑诀?

Is there any works that bothered to try and explain how keeping oaths = build up power?

 

[Deleted member 84247]

Yesn't

 

[RepresentingPride]

In some novel, the more a paladin have oath and maintain them, the closest he become to the deity and in exchange get more of his/her power in the processus.
Also not in every story does paladin stack their power to one unique hit. Most of the time they just knight with holy power.

 

[Deleted member 58005]

Cleric: "Forgive me father, for I have sinned."

Warlock: "I'm sorry Daddy/Mommy, I've been a bad boy."

Paladin: is the Daddy/Mommy

 

[HelloHound]

Cleric: "Forgive me father, for I have sinned."

Warlock: "I'm sorry Daddy/Mommy, I've been a bad boy."

Paladin: is the Daddy/Mommy

I'd be glad with the Paladin mommy, feels like an under tapped market

 

[NotaNuffian]

In some novel, the more a paladin have oath and maintain them, the closest he become to the deity and in exchange get more of his/her power in the processus.
Also not in every story does paladin stack their power to one unique hit. Most of the time they just knight with holy power.

So still an oath to a higher being? Lame.

I'd be glad with the Paladin mommy, feels like an under tapped market

Nani?

Cleric: "Forgive me father, for I have sinned."

Warlock: "I'm sorry Daddy/Mommy, I've been a bad boy."

Paladin: is the Daddy/Mommy

Oh, it's yours.

 

[Prince_Azmiran_Myrian]

Paladins have oaths to ideas and rulers as well, not always to a god.

 

[ThrillingHuman]

and policemen are really just ganstas with a uniform. No, really.

 

[RepresentingPride]

So still an oath to a higher being? Lame.

In most yes or they learn saint/light magic and get the title "paladin". If you don't like the oath to a higher being, I'm pretty sure you can find a story out there where the paladin bang the deity so in some way he/her become the higher being, at least in the bed.

 

[NotaNuffian]

Paladins have oaths to ideas and rulers as well, not always to a god.

Yeah, but do they gain power from said oaths? In chinese works, scholars gain power from their belief but I rarely see that in western works.

and policemen are really just ganstas with a uniform. No, really.

Dude, I once heard this line from a cop.

"You know whose the biggest gang in this town? It's us."

 

[RepresentingPride]

Yeah, but do they gain power from said oaths? In chinese works, scholars gain power from their belief but I rarely see that in western works.

For me the scholars look more like a cleric/priest if you stay with the deity thing. If you looking in western story then what are the closer to the one who get power from wisdom are the "Sage" or "Alchemist" (philosopher,etc)

 

[NotaNuffian]

For me the scholars look more like a cleric/priest.

Except they believe in concepts, not deities.

Semantics, I know. But I kind of enjoy not having to believe in a higher being, instead have growth from holding onto a virtue.

 

[RepresentingPride]

Except they believe in concepts, not deities.

Semantics, I know. But I kind of enjoy not having to believe in a higher being, instead have growth from holding onto a virtue.

I just edited my previous post. Mage, sage, alchemist go with wisdom and have nothing to do with deity

 

[NotaNuffian]

For me the scholars look more like a cleric/priest if you stay with the deity thing. If you looking in western story then what are the closer to the one who get power from wisdom are the "Sage" or "Alchemist" (philosopher,etc)

I just edited my previous post. Mage, sage, alchemist go with wisdom and have nothing to do with deity

Very close to what I am looking for. Scholars, especially in the chinese work that I can't bloody find the name to, would have to have their knowledge and belief tested by the heavens as they try to cross the valley of no return on a rope made from their learnings. If they can cross it, they get to the next level. If they don't, they die.

Also, scholars in that works and other chinese types are all reality warpers, using poems, phrases and some mumbo as their spells.

 

[Tyranomaster]

In my mind its a difference of usage.

A Paladin is granted powers by their god to fulfill a goal under a contract, furthering both parties interests.

A Cleric, through their devotion, beseech their god when they need their power, borrowing it for a brief time.

A warlock, while very similar to a paladin, differs in that the dark diety ultimately gains more. The warlock sacrifices a higher value in exchange for their powers.

 

[georgelee5786]

 

[Tsuru]

A oath
is more like a "mission"

Ex : I oath to purge evil

Or just look at the recent MANHWA "King returned with gods"

 

[Cipiteca396]

The difference is purely up to the author(/player), as always.

In dnd, clerics and paladins tap into the power of a higher being or concept, borrowing it for a while, with paladins being warriors and clerics being diplomats;
while warlocks are taught or steal arcane secrets from a (likely non-divine) powerful being.

There are also a couple mechanical differences, to the point where 'Warlock with stick' actually does mean something different than paladin, but the fact that one of the best multiclasses in the game is paladin/warlock is a bit of delicious irony.

Personally, I don't even bother to think of 'classes' as real, in world things. I hate the concept, and I hate being limited to a certain arbitrary set of skills or abilities.

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Now then, I actually have seen stories where 'belief' or keeping an oath or vow is a strong source of power. I'm having trouble recalling them though...

IRL, the knight's code of chivalry; and religious vows (of poverty, celibacy, etc) are probably the inspiration for paladins and especially 'Oaths'.
Just by being 'virtuous', a person earns (mostly political) power and renown. In the stories where that power is real they basically trade in karma. Be good, make good things happen.

I'm really struggling to think of a good example. It's almost always just godstuff or plot armor. Even dnd doesn't explain it, it just gives you the mechanics- that's obviously so the player is free to explain it how they want, but it's really unhelpful here, lol.

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I guess the biggest problem with using oaths to build up power is that dumb old paradox: If you're only being good because it benefits you, are you really being good, or just selfish?

People don't want to undercut their 'good, virtuous' character, so they don't explain how oaths work. "It's a reward for being good, don't overthink it. "

I do seem to recall something about oaths creating a positive feedback loop, but no idea where it's from.

 

[Placeholder]

> scholars gain power from their belief but I rarely see that in western works.

That's becuase the Chinese cultivation stuff is loosely based on a mythologized version of Taoist practice. I think.

The western stuff is often rebadged JRPGs which are rebadged DND which is rebadged Tolkien Naval Wargaming, with a dash of Vancian magic.

 

[NotaNuffian]

> scholars gain power from their belief but I rarely see that in western works.

That's becuase the Chinese cultivation stuff is loosely based on a mythologized version of Taoist practice. I think.

The western stuff is often rebadged JRPGs which are rebadged DND which is rebadged Tolkien Naval Wargaming, with a dash of Vancian magic.

And that kind of sucks.

I understand it is the culture thing.