Should Dragons have rights?

[Deleted member 113259]

9 pages. Quick speedrun to 10 before a mod gets here.

 

[APieceOfRock]

Dunno, just sounded like a cool thing to say in the moment.
Since I don't believe dragons have rights.

You'll be the first to go when our scaly overlords take over

 

[AnonUnlimited]

https://www.carbonbrief.org/met-off...hitting-50-higher-than-pre-industrial-levels/ (UK gov met office)


Further reading:

Scientists deliver ‘final warning’ on climate crisis: act now or it’s too late

IPCC report says only swift and drastic action can avert irrevocable damage to world

www.theguardian.com

Again... there is no science that proves climate change is man-made. There is only extrapolated evidence that may point in that direction.

 

[Placeholder]

Since I don't believe dragons have rights

I'd be concerned if they interfered with politics or the economy.

 

[APieceOfRock]

I'd be concerned if they interfered with politics or the economy.

Maybe the Great Depression was a dragon waking up from its slumber....

Again... there is no science that proves climate change is man-made. There is only extrapolated evidence that may point in that direction.

-burning fuel releases greenhouse gasses
-humans burn fuel for energy to supply the whole world
-no major volcanoes eruptions in years. Ones that happened decades ago shouldn't affect today.
-conclusive data on the increasing amount of greenhouse gasses in the atmosphere
-HMMM I WONDER IF HUMAN CAUSED CLIMATE CHANGE

"There's no evidence that proves you were born. Only a birth certificate, social security number, and eyewitnesses pointing toward that conclusion. Who's to say you weren't created yesterday and got fake memories implanted in your brain?"

 

[AnonUnlimited]

Maybe the Great Depression was a dragon waking up from its slumber....

-burning fuel releases greenhouse gasses
-humans burn fuel for energy to supply the whole world
-no major volcanoes eruptions in years. Ones that happened decades ago shouldn't affect today.
-conclusive data on the increasing amount of greenhouse gasses in the atmosphere
-HMMM I WONDER IF HUMAN CAUSED CLIMATE CHANGE

- Trees and plants turn greenhouse gases back into oxygen.
- Politicians deliberately let trees burn.
- There are over 20,000 underwater volcanos that all haven't been mapped, deep in the ocean. You can't make that claim of no volcanos today.
- Increasing greenhouse gases are not conclusive that it's changing the climate, we don't have a control planet to increase CO2 and see if it happens.

No, you only have extrapolative evidence. Not proof.

 

[Deleted member 76176]

Congrats on starting another thread that should be locked.

I do wonder if you thought it's me who started this thread lol

 

[AnonUnlimited]

I do wonder if you thought it's me who started this thread lol

Nope.
We may not see eye to eye but at the very least I know you have a logical position for what's presented since it could go either way.

 

[APieceOfRock]

- Trees and plants turn greenhouse gases back into oxygen.
- Politicians deliberately let trees burn.
- There are over 20,000 underwater volcanos that all haven't been mapped, deep in the ocean. You can't make that claim of no volcanos today.
- Increasing greenhouse gases are not conclusive that it's changing the climate, we don't have a control planet to increase CO2 and see if it happens.

No, you only have extrapolative evidence. Not proof.

- And? Can't turn them into Oxygen if the gasses are up there in the upper atmosphere.
- they don't. But if they do, that's proof.
- I said no major volcanic eruptions. And greenhouse gasses isn't even something worth mentioning when it comes to volcanoes (although algae would just absorb it immediately). It's the ashes that blocks sunlight. The earth isn't getting any colder so my point still stands.
- Makes Earth warmer = changing climate. The mere fact that it traps heat in is enough to know that it at least has some effect on changing the climate.

Even then CO2 isn't that good at trapping heat. There's a lot more gasses than CO2 that we human let out into the air

Anyways, I know I can't convince you since you're dead set on what you believe. Goodnight for real this time. Goodbye, weirdly political thread.

 

[Placeholder]

Again... there is no science that proves climate change is man-made. There is only extrapolated evidence that may point in that direction.

The word "may" is doing a lot of heavy lifting.

Seeing as how atmospheric chemists, climatologists, oceanographers, and earth science people in general are looking at their datasets (Including old-school thermometers and unprecedented droughts, heat domes, and extreme weather events), their simple models, their server-farm based models - and then lunging for the fire alarm, I do not accept your claims that they are plotting against us becuase tenured profs are getting secretly paid off by private car manufacturers.

They'd have gotten the wood-chipper treatment from their grad students after about 2 weeks or so.

control planet to increase CO2 and see if it happens.

No, you only have extrapolative evidence

Just to be clear, do you think that carbon dioxide traps heat and is a potent greenhouse gas?

(I think if it wasn't, scientists been faking the measurements since 1850 or something? Not sure when they'd have started doing spectroscopy on it. Their peers and article reviewers would kill them.)

 

[Deleted member 76176]

- And? Can't turn them into Oxygen if the gasses are up there in the upper atmosphere.
- they don't. But if they do, that's proof.
- I said no major volcanic eruptions. And greenhouse gasses isn't even something worth mentioning when it comes to volcanoes (although algae would just absorb it immediately). It's the ashes that blocks sunlight. The earth isn't getting any colder so my point still stands.
- Makes Earth warmer = changing climate. The mere fact that it traps heat in is enough to know that it at least has some effect on changing the climate.

Anyways, I know I can't convince you since you're dead set on what you believe. Goodnight for real this time. Goodbye, weirdly political thread.

 

[Deleted member 113259]

- And? Can't turn them into Oxygen if the gasses are up there in the upper atmosphere.
- they don't. But if they do, that's proof.
- I said no major volcanic eruptions. And greenhouse gasses isn't even something worth mentioning when it comes to volcanoes (although algae would just absorb it immediately). It's the ashes that blocks sunlight. The earth isn't getting any colder so my point still stands.
- Makes Earth warmer = changing climate. The mere fact that it traps heat in is enough to know that it at least has some effect on changing the climate.

Even then CO2 isn't that good at trapping heat. There's a lot more gasses than CO2 that we human let out into the air

Anyways, I know I can't convince you since you're dead set on what you believe. Goodnight for real this time. Goodbye, weirdly political thread.

"GOoDbYE WeIrDLy POLitICaL tHrEAd"

This was a thread about the rights of a mythical creature before you showed up!
Don't participate in burning a forest down and then go, "Why's the forest on fire?"

 

[AnonUnlimited]

- And? Can't turn them into Oxygen if the gasses are up there in the upper atmosphere.
- they don't. But if they do, that's proof.
- I said no major volcanic eruptions. And greenhouse gasses isn't even something worth mentioning when it comes to volcanoes (although algae would just absorb it immediately). It's the ashes that blocks sunlight. The earth isn't getting any colder so my point still stands.
- Makes Earth warmer = changing climate. The mere fact that it traps heat in is enough to know that it at least has some effect on changing the climate.

Anyways, I know I can't convince you since you're dead set on what you believe. Goodnight for real this time. Goodbye, weirdly political thread.

Your point that it "could be man-made" stands.
It's not proof, so you didn't even consider my point at all.
Seriously.

And then saying "you're dead set on what you believe." just to give yourself an out. Really?
I never said I was dead set on anything. Simply saying there is no 'proof' doesn't mean there is no 'evidence' it simply means I don't believe the presented hypothesis of man-made climate based on the evidence.

Also CO2 is heavier than oxygen, so this talk about it being in the upper atmosphere and unable to be converted doesn't make much sense since gases try to spread evenly in a given volume.

-_-

Sometimes I wonder if everyone I talk to who is huge about climate alarmism is so biased about believing the alarmist position that they can't even consider the idea that there is a possibility they could be wrong and look more into the numbers as well as molecular structures.

My goodness... the bias is incredible.

The word "may" is doing a lot of heavy lifting.

Seeing as how atmospheric chemists, climatologists, oceanographers, and earth science people in general are looking at their datasets (Including old-school thermometers and unprecedented droughts, heat domes, and extreme weather events), their simple models, their server-farm based models - and then lunging for the fire alarm, I do not accept your claims that they are plotting against us becuase tenured profs are getting secretly paid off by private car manufacturers.

Just to be clear, do you think that carbon dioxide traps heat and is a potent greenhouse gas?

(I think if it wasn't, scientists been faking the measurements since 1850 or something? Not sure when they'd have started doing spectroscopy on it.)

Seeing as how this is a highly politicized topic since the 1960's that have said over and over the world would be flooded by 1990,s 2010,s and now in 5-6 years or whatever... that puts money into trying to get studies done with results they want, it's not surprising if there are a lot of them 'sounding the alarm.'

Carbon dioxide traps heat yes.
Is it possible yes?
Is it man-made? If it is then what is the proposed solution?

I mean, the whole point of it being man made means we should have a sensible solution right? If the solution is to dig up lithium and have China up emissions by 50% so we can reduce emissions in the western countries isn't that a huge problem?

If sea levels are rising why the hell are these people who say climate change is happening buying beach front real estate?

I'm just asking these questions.
What I don't get at all is why people who are so adamant climate change is man-made keep harping on it being 'man made' and stopping emissions but will never ever talk about any of the 'solutions...'

It's because all the solutions involve giving government more power to control all our lives, and unless people are afraid enough of climate change no one in their right mind is going to accept global tyranny for that.

 

[Placeholder]

greenhouse gasses isn't even something worth mentioning when it comes to volcanoes

And we can see them from space:

Graphic: Measuring carbon dioxide from space - NASA Science

NASA's new Orbiting Carbon Observatory-2 space satellite will probe the carbon cycle like never before, telling us where the carbon is going and giving us clues as to where we will end up.

climate.nasa.gov

Pretty sure we can measure hypothetical ocean-floor CO2 emissions through boring but ongoing seawater sampling and oceanography generally, and have eliminated them.

This was a thread about the rights of a mythical creature before you showed up!

Someone brought god into it. And started claiming that global heating isn’t happening, but that if it was, it was a liberal conspiracy.

 

[Deleted member 113259]

Someone brought god into it. And started claiming that global heating isn’t happening, but that if it was, it was a liberal conspiracy.

Yes, the God thing happened, and that at least had some relevance because we were talking about rights. No one was being too serious, or trying to actually convince people of their "opinions" being fact.

As for the other claim, that came from Anon who was actually late to the political discussion.

 

[APieceOfRock]

Sometimes I wonder if everyone I talk to who is huge about climate alarmism is so biased about believing the alarmist position that they can't even consider the idea that there is a possibility they could be wrong and look more into the numbers as well as molecular structures.

My goodness... the bias is incredible.

I knew that saying to myself "just five more mintues to see what everyone says is a bad idea.
Anyways, for realsies this time.
Ive said before. The media is exaggerating climate change. But you can't deny it being caused by humans.
We DO have a solution. Shut off everything and regress to the stone age. Of course, said solutions is basically impossible. The only real solution we have right now is switching to nuclear entirely, which people who claims to be protecting everyone from climate change are strangely opposed to.

 

[AnonUnlimited]

I knew that saying to myself "just five more mintues to see what everyone says is a bad idea.
Anyways, for realsies this time.
Ive said before. The media is exaggerating climate change. But you can't deny it being caused by humans.
We DO have a solution. Shut off everything and regress to the stone age. Of course, said solutions is basically impossible. The only real solution we have right now is switching to nuclear entirely, which people who claims to be protecting everyone from climate change are strangely opposed to.

Alright, now you're making sense. Thank you.
Also, I never denied it was caused by humans, I was simply questioning our actual impact since no one ever talks about every factor. I am constantly worried about burning forests.

If this is to be solved, there has to be more talk about solutions and less about alarmism, and more criticizing of proposed solutions. If people are so terrified of climate change then we're just going to trap ourselves and make things worse because the people who run the world like to 'pretend' to care.

 

[Prince_Azmiran_Myrian]

Welp, one last thing. Look up what radiation actually is. Combined with he fact that you need to shoot out and add protons to turn matters into other things and you got your answer.

It's possible I am misremembering the formation of uranium, it was possible that i may have mixed it up with the formation of diamonds. Uranium and other heavy elements may very possibly have existed at Earth's creation instead.

However, the creation of fossil fuels is pretty obvious with the abundant energy available to facilitate chemical reactions.

I'm more concerned about their greenhouse-gas claims than their uranium claims.


> "Carbon dioxide is Earth’s most important greenhouse gas: a gas that absorbs and radiates heat. Unlike oxygen or nitrogen (which make up most of our atmosphere), greenhouse gases absorb heat radiating from the Earth’s surface and re-release it in all directions—including back toward Earth’s surface."

It's pretty important. Plants actually grow at optimal rates when CO2 is in the ~600 ppm
Substantially higher than what they are now.

"Carbon dioxide (CO2) in the atmosphere is now reaching levels 50% higher than when humanity began large-scale burning of fossil fuels during the industrial revolution. "

Yeah, and before the flood, levels were dramatically higher because the carbon was not trapped as fuel sources.

Even secular science claims that CO2 was way higher in the distant past.

 

[Deleted member 113259]

Alright, now you're making sense. Thank you.
Also, I never denied it was caused by humans, I was simply questioning our actual impact since no one every talks about every factor. I am constantly worried about burning forests.

Anon's soul returns to his body...

 

[APieceOfRock]

Don't participate in burning a forest down and then go, "Why's the forest on fire?"

So? I only realised after the fact that it became weirdly political. I'm not complaining.

And I'm sorry if my opinions derailed the conversation. But I can't stand people refusing to believe in climate change when one of my family members died because of it (or something caused by it.)
Anyways, goodnight

Also I'm glad the misunderstanding's resolved now, Anon