What happen after a government fails?

D

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:blob_neutral: A government can fall, but they never disappear. There are just replaced by new forms. Governments are just power structures of administration and governance. We humans are social creatures by necessity, so they will always continue to exist. There will always be leaders.
What if an entire tribe becomes nomadic?
Ah sorry? I think I missed something. Any case, I'm on my 'teaching mode' since I've been nervous since this morning...prolly up to the next because my demonstration teaching will be tomorrow.

And my head is full of preparations.
idk if you've actually been to my status. Allow me to direct you to C.O.#25.
 
D

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What if an entire tribe becomes nomadic?
There's still a sliver of government, though it's quite different than a sedentary civilization.

For example, the Mongolians have Khans, even though they're nomadic. Native Americans have Chiefs (correct me if I'm wrong on this).
idk if you've actually been to my status. Allow me to direct you to C.O.#25.
Will check that after I finished prepping my presentation for the demo tomorrow.
 
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There's still a sliver of government, though it's quite different than a sedentary civilization.

For example, the Mongolians have Khans, even though they're nomadic. Native Americans have Chiefs (correct me if I'm wrong on this).
K but what if they become a merchant guild of sorts The only organization is a shared location to do business, otherwise, they all do their own thing.
 
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K but what if they become a trade union? The only organization is a shared location to do business, otherwise, they all do their own thing.
As far as modern examples are concerned, trade unions are possible only if the civilization is industrialized. After all, trade unions aim to unite workers against the possible abuse of the factory owners, and it isn't possible if your industry consisted of a few home-based craftsmen.
 
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As far as modern examples are concerned, trade unions are possible only if the civilization is industrialized. After all, trade unions aim to unite workers against the possible abuse of the factory owners, and it isn't possible if your industry consisted of a few home-based craftsmen.
I changed the question. What about nomadic independent merchants?
 
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I changed the question. What about nomadic independent merchants?
Well, if we're still talking about government here, the government still exists...though, just like what @Assurbanipal_II said, it would only change forms.

See, even merchant caravans have the 'master' at its head, directing local operations and leading the group to cities they need to trade with. Independent merchants, while possible, isn't viable because of the distance one has to travel in order to transport goods. One has to be an extremely wealthy merchant to operate individually...but even then, another form of 'government' would form, with the owner at the top.
:blob_neutral: You don't get it. We humans are social creatures, or rather political creatures. We form societies, and a society is inherently political. That si why all societies have power structures, and by extension a "government".
I agree to this.

All aspects of human life have politics. From government, down to the very basic familial structures. That's why, in some families, there are children who are favored among the rest.
:blob_neutral: You don't get it. We humans are social creatures, or rather political creatures. We form societies, and a society is inherently political. That si why all societies have power structures, and by extension a "government".
I agree to this.

All aspects of human life have politics. From government, down to the very basic familial structures. That's why, in some families, there are children who are favored among the rest.
 

Assurbanipal_II

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Well, if we're still talking about government here, the government still exists...though, just like what @Assurbanipal_II said, it would only change forms.

See, even merchant caravans have the 'master' at its head, directing local operations and leading the group to cities they need to trade with. Independent merchants, while possible, isn't viable because of the distance one has to travel in order to transport goods. One has to be an extremely wealthy merchant to operate individually...but even then, another form of 'government' would form, with the owner at the top.

I agree to this.

All aspects of human life have politics. From government, down to the very basic familial structures. That's why, in some families, there are children who are favored among the rest.

I agree to this.

All aspects of human life have politics. From government, down to the very basic familial structures. That's why, in some families, there are children who are favored among the rest.
:blob_neutral: There is a reason why Hegel mentions family in his modern state theory. The family, mostly patriarchal, is our first contact in life with a government structure. The moment your father or mum tell you something, they exert power.
 
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@ControversialOpinion Let me also bring up the case of the Hanseatic League. That loose 'confederation' of merchant guilds and cities in Northern Europe was motivated only by their desire for trade, free from Imperial control. Yet, they still have hierarchy, and with hierarchy comes governance. And with governance comes politics.
 
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:blob_neutral: You don't get it. We humans are social creatures, or rather political creatures. We form societies, and a society is inherently political. That is why all societies have power structures, and by extension a "government".
No, I get it. There's something inherent about politics to humans, same with theology. I was just trying to do a thought exercise to see if it would be possible for humans to ever congregate without a government being formed.

I think I actually got close with the merchant example because Hans actually slightly misinterpreted it as caravans instead of each member being an isolated merchant when they aren't trading with each other.
 
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:blob_neutral: There is a reason why Hegel mentions family in his modern state theory. The family, mostly patriarchal, is our first contact in life with a government structure. The moment your father or mum tell you something, they exert power.
Absolutely true.
 
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No, I get it. There's something inherent about politics to humans, same with theology. I was just trying to do a thought exercise to see if it would be possible for humans to ever congregate without a government being formed.

I think I actually got close with the merchant example because Hans actually slightly misinterpreted it as caravans instead of each member being an isolated merchant when they aren't trading with each other.
I doubt it would happen. Again, humans are social creatures, and with society comes hierarchy and with hierarchy comes politics.

Heck, even in ScribbleHub, we do have politics here.
 

Assurbanipal_II

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No, I get it. There's something inherent about politics to humans, same with theology. I was just trying to do a thought exercise to see if it would be possible for humans to ever congregate without a government being formed.

I think I actually got close with the merchant example because Hans actually slightly misinterpreted it as caravans instead of each member being an isolated merchant when they aren't trading with each other.
:blob_neutral: The problem is that the term "government" is usually associated with our current structure by political laymen. It is the "government". But nobody even remotely familiar with political theory would commit that mistake. The government is an abstract concept. An idea. Not an actual physical thing. You can't kill ideas.
 
D

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@ControversialOpinion Also, how can you be a merchant when you're isolated? The reason why there is an exchange of cultures even in the old ages is because of merchants having to go out of their own bases to find someone who'll buy their goods/or to buy goods.
 
D

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Also, how can you be a merchant when you're isolated? The reason why there is an exchange of cultures even in the old ages is because of merchants having to go out of their own bases to find someone who'll buy their goods/or to buy goods.
You gather resources then you trade them for other resources at a shared known location.
 
D

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You gather resources then you trade them for other resources at a shared known location.
Still, there's that point where you'll have to travel, having to go to that shared known location. And for one to travel, one has to be in groups, or it'll be dangerous and expensive.

Now, if you say that the shared known location is a city spot, then by all means, there's no isolated merchant simply for the fact they have to travel to that location to trade.
 
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Still, there's that point where you'll have to travel, having to go to that shared known location. And for one to travel, one has to be in groups, or it'll be dangerous and expensive.

Now, if you say that the shared known location is a city spot, then by all means, there's no isolated merchant simply for the fact they have to travel to that location to trade.
Shared location is a big rock that you can see from a high vantage point.
 
D

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Shared location is a big rock that you can see from a high vantage point.
Still, there is contact.

Even ancient Filipinos, who bartered with the Ming Chinese and would leave their goods on shorelines to trade, would leave messages for the Chinese to receive. And vice versa. There's an exchange of message. Communication. So there's no isolation.

In fact, merchants should not even isolate themselves. I mean, how can they sell their goods if no one knows anything about them? It's also applicable in the modern sense thru online shopping apps. I'm into business, and as long as my business stays at the four corners of my home, I can't be a proper merchant. I need to go out and advertise I offer this kind of service (printing) to anyone who needs it.
 
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Still, there is contact.

Even ancient Filipinos, who bartered with the Ming Chinese and would leave their goods on shorelines to trade, would leave messages for the Chinese to receive. And vice versa. There's an exchange of message. Communication. So there's no isolation.
Wait yeah, I never said there wasn't contact. They're isolated for most of their lives and then once a year or something they go to the rock to trade goods. If they never congregated there'd be no point in the thought exercise.
 
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