What is the hype in guns?

[Representing_Tromba]

To be honest, the whole hype that gun owners get can be explained incredibly easily. For you see, if I want to hit something very far away and an alchemical boom stick can hit it then I'm gonna try. If that thing I'm trying to hit happens to be steel and I hit it then it will make a satisfying ding sound so enjoyable that I can't help but smile.

Once more, NC makes me question if we are red or blue. This state is very confusing sometimes

I'm talking about Illinois, California, and Massachusetts mainly. NC's gun laws are pretty okay.

 

[Prince_Azmiran_Myrian]

But America isn’t Israel or Europe for that matter, we are isolated between two oceans and I highly doubt Mexico or Canada is going to send troops to invade.

Mexico doesn't need to send troops they just send criminal migrants instead.

 

[AnonUnlimited]

Mexico doesn't need to send troops they just send criminal migrants instead.

All the more reason to own guns as an America citizen.

 

[RockiesRetriever]

Americans seem to worship guns. I don’t get why they worship guns. Why do Americans worship guns?

Part of it is a blanket perception. If all you know about guns in the US, and just the US in general, is from what the media says, the US probably sounds like a horrible place. I'd expect you'd get a lot of similar ugly presentations of countries if all you looked at was the constant bickering going on in their media.

Most Americans do not worship guns. I wouldn't even say something like a majority of people own guns. If you own a gun, it's most likely something that you keep in storage in your house in case a really bad situation arises. I have met people who are really into guns - but for them, it is a hobby, no different to them as another potentially risky hobby like rock climbing. People into hunting and stuff enjoy debating guns like others would debate cars. It's just a hobby.

The perception of America as gun crazed is again I think, partly due to popular culture, not just depicting Americans as "the people who love guns" but also just American movies have a lot of guns in them.

I'd guess it's just a cultural thing, stemming from our history, cowboys, revolutionaries and all that, that we think guns are really cool. Doesn't mean though that we are as interested in them in real life as we might be in a movie or game though.


In regards to all the... well, conflict around them - I think people do have a right to protect themselves. I think that guns shouldn't just be obtainable by anybody. I don't know, it'll probably frustrate some people that I'm towing the line, but I am not really into guns. I know people who are, and they're responsible people. I personally would feel less safe if responsible people were not allowed to defend themselves. I also would feel a lot less safe if people had unbridled access to weapons.

 

[Gryphon]

You've obviously never actually tried to buy a gun.

Except for the fact I could incredibly easy if I want to. All I really need is a license, which is insanely easy to get. All they need to do is do a background search on me, I take a course on how to use it, pay for it, and if everything is good I get a license. Some states will require fingerprints, my state for example, but beyond that I can get a license within half a year, most of that time being the time it takes to ship to me.

Then there's the act of buying the gun. Walmart used to sell guns until, guess what, idiots shot up a few stores and they banned the selling. And there's a gun store in my town that I could buy a gun from easily. What do I do? Fill out a 4473, which is laughable might I add. They see if I'm allowed to get one depending on what I filled out and a few other details, like criminal history and mental health, which is easy to fake by the way, and I get the gun within my specifications. And even then, someone I know irl that owns a gun, bought one from a gun store without needing to show any certification.

Also, it's incredibly easy to buy a gun second hand within this country. That's more of what I'm referring to when I'm talking about buying guns. I can go online, and even just around my hometown, and find some people selling a gun haphazardly because there's so many produced and made here. Whether that's legal or not doesn't matter when its still incredibly easy to get. I wouldn't even need a license this way.

My chances of getting a gun are 100% and as far as anyone knows, I could do some real damage with it. Just the fact that America has the highest record of mass shootings should tip people off that its way too easy to obtain one. I don't have a license, but by the time the new year rolls around, I could have one in my wallet and a Glock sitting in its holster. In most cases, I wouldn't even need a license to get a gun. That's how easy it is.

And if you're argument with the govt is that they have more expensive toys, you're not using your imagination enough, nor are you learning from any guerrilla conflict that has bogged down conventional militaries for decades. Also a govt bombing its own people is pretty self defeating.

Guerilla warfare doesn't work if you're fighting on the home ground the military is based in. Especially with untrained civilians against a trained militia with a ton of toys that won't damage anything except the enemy. Like grenades. It does minimal damage to land, but a lot of damage to flesh and bone. The holes can be filled back in later with the bodies.

It's like people think the government is a bunch of monkeys jumping on the bed until one falls off and bumps its head, but in reality, they can, and will, do everything in their power to make sure they remain in control. You think if civilians start shooting at government workers, they're just going to shrug their shoulders? No, they won't.

 

[Ilikewaterkusa]

Fair. I'm sure there are those who worship guns, but not all who own a pistol or rifle do. Many just want to protect themselves and their families.

Yeah, I know this but I’m not criticizing these guy just the gun simps

Once more, NC makes me question if we are red or blue. This state is very confusing sometimes

blue is democrat. Red is republican. Generally these states are classified by how they vote and the Governor that is in power

Im going to say something that might offend you, but you are way too subjective when it comes to these topics.

no. Lol

words like “virtuous” mean nothing when even the communist who kills and starves others “for the people” claim their virtue by contributing to the society.

Yes.

If society is rotten then how do we determine who has the moral high ground? If you say you’re the only one with the moral high ground then there is a bias there about what that constitutes unless you can explain what the moral high ground is and why it’s there.

Morality is constituted by the friend enemy, that which supports the enemy and destroys the friend is immoral, that which supports the friend and destroys the enemy is moral. Or alternatively instead of using Schmittian power dynamics, we can use traditional morality to make the case. You know rottenness when you see it. There will always be a bias when it comes to the constituting of morality and immorality, but this bias is a necessary and natural part of life. Without bias, there will be no successful society.

The “monopoly on power” argument makes little sense because the American constitution was made with elections, checks and balances between branches and a representative democracy over a popular one so the monopoly wouldn’t take over.

the founding fathers were fûcking retards that did not understand power. Even if government is split between branches, and there is a representative there will always be a monopoly on power. There is no way to curtail the monopoly of power, and to believe so is to fall into the populist delusion. To debunk this claim, there are two things about power that must be noted, power will always be concentrated. This is the iron law of oligarchy. And two, the nature of power is to grow and expand. The founding fathers were retards that did not understand power dynamics. These power dynamics are iron laws like that of gravity or friction. Existential truths.

Granted 200 years later the corruption has entered the system and at almost every level of government, but the 2nd amendment was never about “monopoly of power.”

it’s about securing the ability to fight back against the government, granted with the advances in technology the soldier has way more equipment than the average person but that’s also because people have become less independent and more reliant on society as a whole.

You read that wrong. The monopoly of power is the state’s right to utilize power, when broken down to the micro level this means ensuring that the common man can have weapons alongside the government, allowing those two the power to act in violence.

We aren’t the agricultural farming society, we are the now the industrial society where if 90% of people stopped working we would still have enough food if it were freely distributed by those who farmed and worked in that industry (would be completely unfair to them by the way). Without the grocery store, the vast majority of us would starve.

how the fuck does this relate. Just curious. Also, we aren’t industrial anymore, we are post-industrial. We are in the era of soulless office workers not hard working laborers at the coal plant

“The security of a free state, the right to bear arms shall not be infringed.” That is if someone isn’t harming the rights of others then they have the right to own weapons, not just guns but “arms”.

this included cannons back in those days.

As far as why should anyone be allowed to own them? Well, before firearms was there ever a chance for a 4’11 thin woman to kill a 6’8 muscular strongman?

i literally don’t see how this relates to the argument

If you are a society that trusts your government, or if your society wouldn’t survive without trusting your government like Israel then sure, there won’t be tyranny because they have to look at their enemies all around and the government doesn’t have time to go after citizens.

But America isn’t Israel or Europe for that matter, we are isolated between two oceans and I highly doubt Mexico or Canada is going to send troops to invade.

your grammar is all over the place. I literally can’t understand.
Even if the government has enemies, it may still be in the interests of the state to crush the common people. Heck, monarchs were more fearful of the plebs creating a proto-socialist revolution more than they were afraid of their million rivals taking over.
also the cartels are already invading.

 

[Gryphon]

I really don’t want to get into politics here, but it isn’t easy to buy a gun legally in America. I had a 10 day waiting period to buy the first one.

granted some states are more lax than others.

honestly.

2nd amendment basically means we have the right to own what the government owns, the problem now though is that the average person doesn’t have the money to buy a tank.

Waiting doesn't equal to hard. The fact you talked about the waiting period instead of the actual process, tells me that you had already bought it, and the waiting was harder than actually buying it. That's a problem.

And the 2nd amendment means that we have the right to bear arms. It doesn't specify what arms, and the government is what allows us to buy guns. They can easily take that right away, and everyone, including myself, would be against it but realistically, there's not much we could do. Fire at them? They'd just fire back ten times harder.

We only own what the government owns because the government allows us to own them so that they can make us think we have some power, when in reality we have practically none.

 

[Ilikewaterkusa]

Part of it is a blanket perception. If all you know about guns in the US, and just the US in general, is from what the media says, the US probably sounds like a horrible place. I'd expect you'd get a lot of similar ugly presentations of countries if all you looked at was the constant bickering going on in their media.

Most Americans do not worship guns. I wouldn't even say something like a majority of people own guns. If you own a gun, it's most likely something that you keep in storage in your house in case a really bad situation arises. I have met people who are really into guns - but for them, it is a hobby, no different to them as another potentially risky hobby like rock climbing. People into hunting and stuff enjoy debating guns like others would debate cars. It's just a hobby.

Not really. Most Americans I met worship guns.

The perception of America as gun crazed is again I think, partly due to popular culture, not just depicting Americans as "the people who love guns" but also just American movies have a lot of guns in them.

I'd guess it's just a cultural thing, stemming from our history, cowboys, revolutionaries and all that, that we think guns are really cool. Doesn't mean though that we are as interested in them in real life as we might be in a movie or game though.

all the propaganda and stuff is really rubbing on impressionable folks

Except for the fact I could incredibly easy if I want to. All I really need is a license, which is insanely easy to get. All they need to do is do a background search on me, I take a course on how to use it, pay for it, and if everything is good I get a license. Some states will require fingerprints, my state for example, but beyond that I can get a license within half a year, most of that time being the time it takes to ship to me.

smuggling it or obtaining it is even easier. Step 1. Find a dealer, 2 pay, 3 you have gun

Then there's the act of buying the gun. Walmart used to sell guns until, guess what, idiots shot up a few stores and they banned the selling. And there's a gun store in my town that I could buy a gun from easily. What do I do? Fill out a 4473, which is laughable might I add. They see if I'm allowed to get one depending on what I filled out and a few other details, like criminal history and mental health, which is easy to fake by the way, and I get the gun within my specifications. And even then, someone I know irl that owns a gun, bought one from a gun store without needing to show any certification.

Also, it's incredibly easy to buy a gun second hand within this country. That's more of what I'm referring to when I'm talking about buying guns. I can go online, and even just around my hometown, and find some people selling a gun haphazardly because there's so many produced and made here. Whether that's legal or not doesn't matter when its still incredibly easy to get. I wouldn't even need a license this way.

My chances of getting a gun are 100% and as far as anyone knows, I could do some real damage with it. Just the fact that America has the highest record of mass shootings should tip people off that its way too easy to obtain one. I don't have a license, but by the time the new year rolls around, I could have one in my wallet and a Glock sitting in its holster. In most cases, I would

though it is easy to get a gun, most people would never get into the state of mind to do shootings and stuff. The laws are basically made to allow lenience for normal people who won’t do shootings and stuff, and impede shooters

It's like people think the government is a bunch of monkeys jumping on the bed until one falls off and bumps its head,

This is gold

but realistically, there's not much we could do.

political campaigning, turning political campaigns and taking institutional power in the government, media, academia and deport

We only own what the government owns because the government allows us to own them so that they can make us think we have some power, when in reality we have practically none.

so true! Gryphon became based WTF. Also it’s probably better if the common people don’t have political power, but only the ability to maintain their economic, social and physical livelihoods

 

[AnonUnlimited]

We only own what the government owns because the government allows us to own them so that they can make us think we have some power, when in reality we have practically none.

What’s hard and what isn’t hard is semantics, but here is where our points differ.

If government wants to enforce themselves and everyone with smaller weapons gather together, they still have a better chance of winning than if they have no weapons at all.

Not going to argue this point further because it’s honestly theoretical and we have a fundamental difference of opinion that can’t be resolved through anything concrete.

i literally don’t see how this relates to the argument

your grammar is all over the place. I literally can’t understand.

Your inability to see or understand something doesn’t make the point moot.

Anyway I’m not wasting my time with you any longer. Have a nice day.

 

[Ilikewaterkusa]

If government wants to enforce themselves and everyone with smaller weapons gather together, they still have a better chance of winning than if they have no weapons at all.

On paper, yes, assuming that they are in the correct physical and mental state to do the rebellion stuff. In combat, the lion without passion is infinitely more inferior to the rat with passion.

 

[Prince_Azmiran_Myrian]

Except for the fact I could incredibly easy if I want to. All I really need is a license, which is insanely easy to get. All they need to do is do a background search on me, I take a course on how to use it, pay for it, and if everything is good I get a license. Some states will require fingerprints, my state for example, but beyond that I can get a license within half a year, most of that time being the time it takes to ship to me.

Then there's the act of buying the gun. Walmart used to sell guns until, guess what, idiots shot up a few stores and they banned the selling. And there's a gun store in my town that I could buy a gun from easily. What do I do? Fill out a 4473, which is laughable might I add. They see if I'm allowed to get one depending on what I filled out and a few other details, like criminal history and mental health, which is easy to fake by the way, and I get the gun within my specifications. And even then, someone I know irl that owns a gun, bought one from a gun store without needing to show any certification.

Also, it's incredibly easy to buy a gun second hand within this country. That's more of what I'm referring to when I'm talking about buying guns. I can go online, and even just around my hometown, and find some people selling a gun haphazardly because there's so many produced and made here. Whether that's legal or not doesn't matter when its still incredibly easy to get. I wouldn't even need a license this way.

Thank you for correcting my ignorance and i see your secondhand point. I disagree that buying a gun should be harder.

My chances of getting a gun are 100% and as far as anyone knows, I could do some real damage with it. Just the fact that America has the highest record of mass shootings should tip people off that its way too easy to obtain one. I don't have a license, but by the time the new year rolls around, I could have one in my wallet and a Glock sitting in its holster. In most cases, I wouldn't even need a license to get a gun. That's how easy it is.

We could cut down on mass shootings by actually imprisoning gangsters, the leading demographic of mass shootings. And for other shootings, weve seen good guy with gun prevent mass shootings too. The successful shooters are motivated by media and go to gun free zones.

Guerilla warfare doesn't work if you're fighting on the home ground the military is based in. Especially with untrained civilians against a trained militia with a ton of toys that won't damage anything except the enemy. Like grenades. It does minimal damage to land, but a lot of damage to flesh and bone. The holes can be filled back in later with the bodies.

It's like people think the government is a bunch of monkeys jumping on the bed until one falls off and bumps its head, but in reality, they can, and will, do everything in their power to make sure they remain in control. You think if civilians start shooting at government workers, they're just going to shrug their shoulders? No, they won't.

One of the things a govt would do is make guns and ammo harder to buy, which they are doing btw. Dems are pretty open about taking guns away. They are afraid, and for good reason.

 

[AnonUnlimited]

One of the things a govt would do is make guns and ammo harder to buy, which they are doing btw. Dems are pretty open about taking guns away. They are afraid, and for good reason.

I just wanted to point out one last thing.

It’s not actually the government soldiers that rebels target but the tyrant politician/dictator themselves.

A lot of politicians know how vulnerable they are if someone over the hill can snipe them from a distance, so they’re always going to be deathly afraid of long distance weapons like guns.

Dictators need to make public appearances to maintain their self preservation and power, it probably won’t be fun if the last surviving member of a family of whom the dictator burnt to ashes and humiliated before death were to also spend time training their sharp shooting skills because they had nothing left to lose.

 

[Prince_Azmiran_Myrian]

I just wanted to point out one last thing.

It’s not actually the government soldiers that rebels target but the tyrant politician/dictator themselves.

A lot of politicians know how vulnerable they are if someone over the hill can snipe them from a distance, so they’re always going to be deathly afraid of long distance weapons like guns.

Dictators need to make public appearances to maintain their self preservation and power, it probably won’t be fun if the last surviving member of a family of whom the dictator burnt to ashes and humiliated before death were to also spend time training their sharp shooting skills because they had nothing left to lose.

One doesnt even need to be a sniper. Just walk up to them or their family. Like that jap that used a homemade firearm to assassinate Shinzo Abe. This can be extended to military, because anyone could be a rebel and military has to rest or leave their families sometime.

This is getting pretty dark.

 

[Ilikewaterkusa]

gangsters

no more gangsters paradise. Prince Azmiran Myrian arrested them all!

 

[AnonUnlimited]

One doesnt even need to be a sniper. Just walk up to them or their family. Like that jap that used a homemade firearm to assassinate Shinzo Abe. This can be extended to military, because anyone could be a rebel and military has to rest or leave their families sometime.

This is getting pretty dark.

The point is that it’s easy for someone with nothing to lose to do something like that.

The reason crime rates rise when poverty strikes is because more people feel as if they have nothing to lose. Therefore Americans owning guns puts pressure on politicians to make sure they have something.

It’s pretty roundabout but generally speaking, peasants couldn’t own weapons because they might strike against their king.

 

[Ilikewaterkusa]

The reason crime rates rise when poverty strikes is because more people feel as if they have nothing to lose. Therefore Americans owning guns puts pressure on politicians to make sure they have something.

and being jealous and toxic towards the rich

 

[Merrikk]

The government has bombs. You can't legally buy crap like that. Then there's bulletproof armor. Yeah, its legal to buy, but crazy expensive for the good stuff. A gun ain't going to put you on even fighting grounds with a single soldier, much less the government.

You have a point, the Ukrainian Army pretty much proofed it by steamrolling many tank divisions, they could stand their ground. But my angle was more on partisan/militias/guerilla groups, rather than an actual standing army, and heck, the second amendment pretty much was created for the average citizen to be able to create guerilla fighters that fights indirectly rather than on an open battle.

As for my actual thoughts, I think we do rely way too much on guns for no reason.

Now this I agree, like holy shit... the average American can buy weapons like a candy from candy store, if you know the loophole, which everybody fuckin knows! (Buying guns through gunshows). It's also ridiculous that the average American owns at least three guns! I mean I get if it's two, one side and one main. But even then, one is enough, a semi/fullauto rifle is enough folks.

 

[Ilikewaterkusa]

Buying guns through gunshows

Not real.

 

[Merrikk]

Not real.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_show_loophole

 

[Ilikewaterkusa]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_show_loophole

Wikipedia is not a real source. It’s grossly rigged by members of the far left to discredit right wing talking points.