A not-so-OP MC.

[RepresentingWrath]

We have a weak MC. In a few chapters, this MC gets into a conflict and is forced to become OP. We have a time skip from the get-go and a miraculous transformation of our MC. We skip the training, and now it's time to unleash the OP MC into the wild. The MC defeats the first couple of enemies with ease. A whole arc might pass without any troubles for the MC, and we bask in his\her awesomeness. And then, after all the time the author worshipped the MC, we learn that MC isn't actually OP. MC not only gets defeated but also constantly keeps meeting enemies that are stronger than him\her. And now, the MC is forced to train again or overcome his\her adversaries with sheer willpower(plot armor).

And here is my question. The authors proceed to demolish the previously established power system to make an enemy who is stronger than the OP MC. Why even bother making MC OP in the first place? Why not start from the bottom if you will effectively return MC to the bottom by changing the previously established rules?

Can someone enlighten me? I can't think of a single upside that can't be done without this twist. But a downside is tremendous because it's extremely easy to make this look like a stupid asspull.

 

[AnonUnlimited]

Most of these stories are full of OP MCs because writing a conflict where the MC outsmarts the opponent takes critical thinking which many do not have.

However, people are so used to OP male leads they are complaining about my MC being weak. Character development isn’t a thing anymore -_-

 

[Macha]

Most of these stories are full of OP MCs because writing a conflict where the MC outsmarts the opponent takes critical thinking which many do not have.

However, people are so used to OP male leads they are complaining about my MC being weak. Character development isn’t a thing anymore -_-

However, people are complaining about everything.

 

[AnonUnlimited]

However, people are complaining about everything.

Such is life.

 

[Macha]

Imo it's not necessary to change the established power system, just make the MC lose their power carefully.

 

[JayDirex]

We have a weak MC. In a few chapters, this MC gets into a conflict and is forced to become OP. We have a time skip from the get-go and a miraculous transformation of our MC. We skip the training, and now it's time to unleash the OP MC into the wild. The MC defeats the first couple of enemies with ease. A whole arc might pass without any troubles for the MC, and we bask in his\her awesomeness. And then, after all the time the author worshipped the MC, we learn that MC isn't actually OP. MC not only gets defeated but also constantly keeps meeting enemies that are stronger than him\her. And now, the MC is forced to train again or overcome his\her adversaries with sheer willpower(plot armor).

And here is my question. The authors proceed to demolish the previously established power system to make an enemy who is stronger than the OP MC. Why even bother making MC OP in the first place? Why not start from the bottom if you will effectively return MC to the bottom by changing the previously established rules?

Can someone enlighten me? I can't think of a single upside that can't be done without this twist. But a downside is tremendous because it's extremely easy to make this look like a stupid asspull.

Jeez Sail, you know most online Authors (excluding our crew on the forums here) are amateur/hobbyist writing whatever pops in their amateur/hobbyist head.

I promise you, whoever wrote that story wouldn't know a three act structure if it hit him with a rock. So you expect him to grasp character development?

 

[DarkeReises]

Imo it's not necessary to change the established power system, just make the MC lose their power carefully.

That's something that bothers me even more than an eternally weak mc. I just never liked it when MCs lose their power. So far I've only really seen it in chinese stories, and it's the reason I dropped Reverend Insanity.

 

[RepresentingWrath]

Jeez Sail, you know most online Authors (excluding our crew on the forums here) are amateur/hobbyist writing whatever pops in their amateur/hobbyist head.

I promise you, whoever wrote that story wouldn't know a three act structure if it hit him with a rock. So you expect him to grasp character development?

I wouldn't write this thread if this twist didn't plague webtoons and manhwa. I've mostly seen this in Korean works, but I think there were a couple of Japanese as well. They are getting paid for it as it's their job, yet they use this twist.

And also, I'm not the brightest boy, so I asked everyone here. I can't get rid of the feeling that it's me, that I am missing something.

 

[DarkeReises]

I wouldn't write this thread if this twist didn't plague webtoons and manhwa. I've mostly seen this in Korean works, but I think there were a couple of Japanese as well. They are getting paid for it as it's their job, yet they use this twist.

And also, I'm not the brightest boy, so I asked everyone here. I can't get rid of the feeling that it's me, that I am missing something.

Just go kidnap an author and investigate the truth from them.

 

[ModernGold7ne]

The z

We have a weak MC. In a few chapters, this MC gets into a conflict and is forced to become OP. We have a time skip from the get-go and a miraculous transformation of our MC. We skip the training, and now it's time to unleash the OP MC into the wild. The MC defeats the first couple of enemies with ease. A whole arc might pass without any troubles for the MC, and we bask in his\her awesomeness. And then, after all the time the author worshipped the MC, we learn that MC isn't actually OP. MC not only gets defeated but also constantly keeps meeting enemies that are stronger than him\her. And now, the MC is forced to train again or overcome his\her adversaries with sheer willpower(plot armor).

And here is my question. The authors proceed to demolish the previously established power system to make an enemy who is stronger than the OP MC. Why even bother making MC OP in the first place? Why not start from the bottom if you will effectively return MC to the bottom by changing the previously established rules?

Can someone enlighten me? I can't think of a single upside that can't be done without this twist. But a downside is tremendous because it's extremely easy to make this look like a stupid asspull.

The solution of the superman problem is as followed;

Focus on the other aspects, not just strength but mind, relations, mysteries and problem solving.

 

[ThrillingHuman]

And here is my question. The authors proceed to demolish the previously established power system to make an enemy who is stronger than the OP MC. Why even bother making MC OP in the first place? Why not start from the bottom if you will effectively return MC to the bottom by changing the previously established rules?

I don't see a problem. We see that the main character has grown in some way -> We see that a new problem has arisen -> We see that the main character has grown in some way (I specifically speak vaguely as the growth and challenges are not necessarily related to combat power and humans respectively). What, otherwise the MC is to be always weak, find one challenge at most and then (after probably overcoming it) end the story?
I see nothing wrong with the main character being exceptional in some way, so... What exactly is the problem here?

 

[vzymmer]

If you're still asking about these questions then you haven't read enough chinese webnovels.

They have thousands of chapters with that kind of format.

They didn't even have a tiny bit of character development.

 

[RepresentingWrath]

I don't see a problem. We see that the main character has grown in some way -> We see that a new problem has arisen -> We see that the main character has grown in some way (I specifically speak vaguely as the growth and challenges are not necessarily related to combat power and humans respectively). What, otherwise the MC is to be always weak, find one challenge at most and then (after probably overcoming it) end the story?
I see nothing wrong with the main character being exceptional in some way, so... What exactly is the problem here?

The problem here is that authors can't handle writing this twist properly, so it looks like an asspull. The question is, why even use this twist? It only makes your life harder, and there is literally zero gain.

We see that a new problem has arisen. If MC is portrayed as OP from the start, the part where a new problem arises is way harder to write properly. Why bother making your life harder? Everything can be done without making your MC seem OP in the start.

Can MC have growth while being weak? Yes. Can an MC who is not OP become conceited after training? Yes. Can an MC who is not OP lose after training hard to stop being weak? Yes. Can an MC who is not OP suffer setbacks even though he\she was weak before? Yes. Can an MC who is not OP have a second training arc? Yes. The list goes on.

Imagine if you read One Punch Man, but after defeating the sea king, Saitama loses to Boros. Sure it can bring character development, Saitama will grow from his loss, and so on. But a new question arises. How will the heroes defeat Boros if even Saitama can't? It's hard to write this without ruining the logic. There was enough worldbuilding to establish the fact that Saitama was crazy strong before Boros, so if Saitama loses, you need to up the powers of others even more.

Another question arises in this scenario. Why name it One Punch Man? It's about Saitama's journey to becoming One Punch Man, okay. Why bother making him one-punch everything in the beginning if he can't do this anymore after a couple of arcs? To make it harder for yourself to write how Boros is defeated?

 

[LilRora]

I think the issue here is that most authors want their mc to be op, but not sail smootly through the whole story, which isn't anything bad in itself, but turns as such if it's done without thinking things through.

Focus on the other aspects, not just strength but mind, relations, mysteries and problem solving.

That's the answer to the problem, and that's what many people don't get or are too afraid to do. A while back I was replying to a question about mages vs warriors, and similar logic can be applied here. You need some way to make the fight fair without giving both sides the same power.

But many authors seem to think in one dimension and make the enemy inherently stronger than the OP mc, instead of thinking for a while and finding a way to give the mc a challenge by introducing a weaker enemy with annoying, insidious, or simply countering the mc power.

As for the reason for that, well...

I don't want to say stupidity, but in many cases it would be. The rest is probably lack of experience, pursuit of something other than quality and fun, or being hesitant to try.

Also, one upside I can think of is showing that power obtained without effort isn't as good as that gained through blood and tears.

 

[RepresentingWrath]

Also, one upside I can think of is showing that power obtained without effort isn't as good as that gained through blood and tears.

But that's the point. MC gained his OP powers through blood, sweat, and tears. The fact that the author didn't spend a lot of chapters describing the training arc doesn't mean we won't get continuous, interfering flashbacks of how hard it was for MC to get the OP powers.

 

[LilRora]

But that's the point. MC gained his OP powers through blood, sweat, and tears. The fact that the author didn't spend a lot of chapters describing the training arc doesn't mean we won't get continuous, interfering flashbacks of how hard it was for MC to get the OP powers.

Ah, okay. That's fair. In that case I'd say there's no point, unless that's the idea of the story. And that's probably not a good idea for a story. I personally hate flashbacks especially in the middle of a fight.

Probably the only way I see that thing being cool is when the existence of the stronger enemy is foreshadowed for a long while. A good example of that would be Vigor Mortis, though there is no totally OP mc. Basically 150 chapters (600k words) into the story you have an introduction of a ruler of a nation... of bugs, a whole lot stronger than the mc, despite the fact that the mc is practically a fledgeling goddess. But the island of said ruler is introduced already close to the beginning of the story, and you don't need a prophet to guess there will be someone on the top of its hierarchy. Just that her power is even higher than you'd guess.

But, well, what was the author thinking? As a human, I have absolutely no idea what other humans are thinking. You can check out this and see in the video desc how the author interpreted the song in a way that (in my opinion) is completely wrong. Then apply the same logic to your question, and you've got your answer, or lack thereof, cause you can't even guess what the guy was thinking.

 

[Temple]

It's due to the nature of serialized stories. There's a schedule for the release of chapters. OP MC is a popular trope. To make it more believable, and also to add conflict, can start from weak MC. HOWEVER, given there's a schedule for the chapter releases, the reader who stumbles upon the web novel, manwha, manga, etc., won't know when the MC becomes OP. Web novel readers are really genre/trope focused. Can see how powerful tags are in SH. So if there's the promise of OP MC in a web novel, that better come out fast or else readers will ignore your story.

If we're talking about a book, there's really no problem. Let's say give the MC ten chapters to become OP? That's already too fast for a book actually. BUT, with one chapter per week manwha, that's more than two months before the OP MC shows up. And where does that leave your story? Probably axed already. And so, the "solution" here is to pump out the OP MC fast, and then just power creep him.

This isn't a writing problem, it's a marketing problem inherent to serialized formats. Okay, let's take Genderbender trope that's really popular here in SH. You promise GB in blurb, and there's GB tag. And then the story takes 15 chapters before the GB happens because it wants to establish being male first so that when the MC becomes female, it has more weight to it, can compare his new life, etc. That GB story will get buried. Or let's take isekai. Use 10-15 chapters to establish the original world and life of the MC before transporting him to another world. That story will get buried.

Like I said, it's the problem for serialized online formats. Not only does it take a while before the promised trope show up, readers can also click away the first 1-3 chapters if they don't find what they're looking for.

Anyway, back to the topic. This is a marketing problem, not a writing problem. No point discussing plot structure, character development, etc. And if you want to blame someone, blame the readers. Authors will adjust to what readers want because they obviously want to sell (be it monetarily or just have more readers) their work. That's usually how it goes in most things. It's the consumer molding the supply.

 

[RepresentingWrath]

It's due to the nature of serialized stories. There's a schedule for the release of chapters. OP MC is a popular trope. To make it more believable, and also to add conflict, can start from weak MC. HOWEVER, given there's a schedule for the chapter releases, the reader who stumbles upon the web novel, manwha, manga, etc., won't know when the MC becomes OP. Web novel readers are really genre/trope focused. Can see how powerful tags are in SH. So if there's the promise of OP MC in a web novel, that better come out fast or else readers will ignore your story.

If we're talking about a book, there's really no problem. Let's say give the MC ten chapters to become OP? That's already too fast for a book actually. BUT, with one chapter per week manwha, that's more than two months before the OP MC shows up. And where does that leave your story? Probably axed already. And so, the "solution" here is to pump out the OP MC fast, and then just power creep him.

This isn't a writing problem, it's a marketing problem inherent to serialized formats. Okay, let's take Genderbender trope that's really popular here in SH. You promise GB in blurb, and there's GB tag. And then the story takes 15 chapters before the GB happens because it wants to establish being male first so that when the MC becomes female, it has more weight to it, can compare his new life, etc. That GB story will get buried. Or let's take isekai. Use 10-15 chapters to establish the original world and life of the MC before transporting him to another world. That story will get buried.

Like I said, it's the problem for serialized online formats. Not only does it take a while before the promised trope show up, readers can also click away the first 1-3 chapters if they don't find what they're looking for.

Anyway, back to the topic. This is a marketing problem, not a writing problem. No point discussing plot structure, character development, etc. And if you want to blame someone, blame the readers. Authors will adjust to what readers want because they obviously want to sell (be it monetarily or just have more readers) their work. That's usually how it goes in most things. It's the consumer molding the supply.

But there is one tiny problem you didn't mention. That supposedly OP MC turns out to be not OP. Readers will feel like they were scammed. And considering the time they spent reading it, they will be very angry. They will mass drop the work and shower it with low ratings.

Blaming the marketing doesn't make sense either. You aim for readers who want an OP MC, and you want that popularity and money. Then why the hell do you make the MC not OP? Why do you anger your target audience? Why are you willingly make yourself lose money and popularity?

 

[Temple]

Readers will feel like they were scammed.

BUT! There are already readers. Compared to if they did 10-15 chapters (still too fast actually) of build up to it.

And considering the time they spent reading it, they will be very angry.

Most readers won't care.

They will mass drop the work and shower it with low ratings.

Yes, a tiny minority of vocal readers will do this. But who cares about them, the work already has thousands of readers. It's a snowballing effect when it comes to web novels. The more readers a work has, the more readers will come. That's why it's very worth the risk of angering very few people who do care about character development because the tradeoff is popularity. If these authors do cater to the minuscule minority who cares about character development, then their work would get buried/axed if it's a manwha etc. And so, the choice is very easy for them.

Then why the hell do you make the MC not OP? Why do you anger your target audience? Why are you willingly make yourself lose money and popularity?

All not true. Those OP MC stories you complain about are making huge bank. And where are the stories with character development? Not making huge bank. Dropped. Axed. Buried. If those type of stories are doing well, then they will be earning top dollar. But where are they?

By the way, I'm saying this as someone who write a litrpg story that takes 5 chapters to get inside the game, 14 chapters to develop his motivation/worldbuild/setup characters etc., and start the plot in the blurb. If I used the "normal" webnovel structure I would've gotten way, way, more readers in RR because people click away at chapter 1-3 if they don't see the trope sold. My story only survived because I have readers from other works so I can market it. If this is my first story, it'll just get ignored and buried.

Blaming the marketing doesn't make sense either.

And for the point that readers dictate the market, take the novel writing AIs. I have author friends who use that thing. Just plug in the generic tropes and it will spit out generic stories. Guess what, those stories can reach Rising Stories in RoyalRoad no problem. (P.S. I'm using RR as an example because that's where the money is.)

 

[RepresentingWrath]

All not true. Those OP MC stories you complain about are making huge bank. And where are the stories with character development? Not making huge bank. Dropped. Axed. Buried. If those type of stories are doing well, then they will be earning top dollar. But where are they?

Oooh, now I get it. You misunderstood everything I wrote before. I'm not sure if I phrased it poorly or if you didn't read it attentively enough.