Decline in moral standards in web novels

[EscLate]

Neutral.

I like Naruto. I now see why our opinions diverge.

By "moral decline" you mean those protagonists who do a lot of horrible things just for the sake of it? The story never justifies it, the protagonist doesn't face consequences, that kind of thing?
If this is what you mean, I guess it's like "longer" says, it's an extreme form of escapism from their reality. It will gratify them to have an edgy protagonist, perhaps.

I mean, I've enjoyed novels like Ernesto Sábato's "The Tunnel," and it's about a guy who's sick in the head who kills a woman. The book starts by telling you that he killed her, and the man narrates how he came to make that decision, his moral decline (if he actually ever had morals to begin with). Absolutely unpleasant, but the book does not portray it as something good or justified, and that is the point: that the reader can empathize with the guy (not in the sense of justifying, but to understand that twisted logic, or to reach the conclusion that it makes no sense to rationalize a murder).

Exactly, thanks for explaining. I was having a hard time with that.

 

[RepresentingWrath]

I like Naruto. I now see why our opinions diverge.

Based.

 

[Irl_Rat]

Morals are not subjective when it came to topic like rape. Or do you think that is acceptable by scociety in which we live in.

There you go. You finally gave a concrete example. Without such an example we wouldn't know if you think a character is a subhuman because they had different political beliefs or if they're an outright rapist.

However, you should consider that some stories are centered around a villanous protagonist. If these are painted a generally bad light, with some room for sympathy or not, it should be fine. But, if these characters are portrayed purely positively ,despite being a rapist or something similar, then it would be an actual problem.

And you don't have to whine about morals not being subjective when it comes to rape. Because you never gave a hint of what you meant by decrepit morals. For all I know, you could be angry because someone had a different philosophical approach to life.

Absolutely unpleasant, but the book does not portray it as something good or justified, and that is the point: that the reader can empathize with the guy (not in the sense of justifying, but to understand that twisted logic, or to reach the conclusion that it makes no sense to rationalize a murder).

Taxi-driver, American psycho, and Joker are some great film examples of this.

 

[CarburetorThompson]

this is my Standard Bearer and I’ll have you know he gives me +1 morale

 

[Amok]

Nurgle approves this message

 

[Irl_Rat]

View attachment 12345
this is my Standard Bearer and I’ll have you know he gives me +1 morale

Gross, Ultramarine player.

 

[Mr.Grey-Cat]

morals are a thing of past.

it's not only your feeling, it's actually kinda true, but not in the way you are describing it. Because it's not that morales are declining, but they are instead changing with time to better suit the modern age and its people. And so, what you are feeling from web novels is probably this change.

And for a better understanding here is an Expert's opinion for you.

 

[RepresentingWrath]

The more I look at this thread, the more I believe mods will lock it after it reaches page 4\5.

 

[Irl_Rat]

it's not only your feeling, it's actually kinda true, but not in the way you are describing it. Because it's not that morales are declining, but they are instead changing with time to better suit the modern age and its people. And so, what you are feeling from web novels is probably this change.

And for a better understanding here is an Expert's opinion for you.
View attachment 12346

 

[Mephi]

I can think of plenty of stories with morals.

Fundamentally, though, you have to remember that the overwhelming majority of web novels are power fantasies and wish fulfillment; morals are restraint, not wish fulfillment. The more popular something becomes, the more of the latter you'll find while trying to get the former.

 

[Amok]

it's not only your feeling, it's actually kinda true, but not in the way you are describing it. Because it's not that morales are declining, but they are instead changing with time to better suit the modern age and its people. And so, what you are feeling from web novels is probably this change.

And for a better understanding here is an Expert's opinion for you.
View attachment 12346

How can something forbidding intolerance also forbid equality of opportunity? Pretty antithetical statement this human has here. And history has made me dubious of any morality linked to governmental influence, which most of the time turns out to be very much anti-individualist...this expert person from 2015 sure has a limited view on something which encompassses almost 8 billion humans following all kinda ever-changing creeds ( or less, seeing as this is 'western' which usually means only north america and western europe)

 

[Xerluc]

Fundamentally, though, you have to remember that the overwhelming majority of web novels are power fantasies and wish fulfillment; morals are restraint, not wish fulfillment. The more popular something becomes, the more of the latter you'll find while trying to get the former.

To add to this, the barrier of entry for web novels is so low. Anyone with a computer and knows how to type can post a web novel (to a webnovel site). There is more of everything, and usually not of very high quality (because quality often means you can and probably should get published).

 

[greyblob]

The more I look at this thread, the more I believe mods will lock it after it reaches page 4\5.

oh it's just getting started

 

[TroubleFait]

Personally, I don't care for morals it's not the defining point of a great novel.

In Beneath the Dragon-Eye Moons, the protagonist has pretty strong morals, and it shapes the direction of the story in a certain way.

In Everybody Loves Large Chests, the protagonist doesn't have morals. The very notion of morals is alien to him. He'll have to pretend to have them in order to live in society, but it's just a facade, as the story shows time and time again. Eventually he meets someone with whom he'll want to spend the rest of his days side by side, and he'll have to figure out that how to behave not to grow distant from them. He has to figure out what morals are, which i find is pretty great.

There's many in-between states, from The Perfect Run with his free-spirited protagonist who still keeps strong lines not to cross, to Reborn From The Cosmos, where the whole story seems to be a question, whether Lourianne will abandon the morals that shackle her or on the contrary keep them against all odds.

And I find each of these stories extremely interesting. The authors have interesting things to say about morals, whether the protagonist have them or not. I personally recommend reading Wishers Beware, where the protagonist has morals but the society around him doesn't share them, and slavery is generalised.

I suspect that what you're pointing at are often lazy stories, rather than a symptom of a general degradation of occidental society.

 

[RepresentingSilence]

it's not only your feeling, it's actually kinda true, but not in the way you are describing it. Because it's not that morales are declining, but they are instead changing with time to better suit the modern age and its people. And so, what you are feeling from web novels is probably this change.

And for a better understanding here is an Expert's opinion for you.
View attachment 12346

Morals have basically always been the same with only some very minor differences it would be more accurate to say that we are entering or already well into a dark age of morality where the immoral becomes more prevalent and accepted it's not the first time and it won't be the last if you study history it happens over and over and over and over again generally at the turning of an age or the fall of an empire or something similar

 

[RepresentingWrath]

oh it's just getting started

Yeah, I'm waiting for our horseman of locked thread to wake up from slumber. The moment he does, you know it's the time to grab the popcorn and see the drama unfold while topics are being derailed left and right.

 

[Irl_Rat]

A specific example would be great, yeah.
Personally, I don't care for morals it's not the defining point of a great novel.

In Beneath the Dragon-Eye Moons, the protagonist has pretty strong morals, and it shapes the direction of the story in a certain way.

In Everybody Loves Large Chests, the protagonist doesn't have morals. The very notion of morals is alien to him. He'll have to pretend to have them in order to live in society, but it's just a facade, as the story shows time and time again. Eventually he meets someone with whom he'll want to spend the rest of his days side by side, and he'll have to figure out that how to behave not to grow distant from them. He has to figure out what morals are, which i find is pretty great.

There's many in-between states, from The Perfect Run with his free-spirited protagonist who still keeps strong lines not to cross, to Reborn From The Cosmos, where the whole story seems to be a question, whether Lourianne will abandon the morals that shackle her or on the contrary keep them against all odds.

And I find each of these stories extremely interesting. The authors have interesting things to say about morals, whether the protagonist have them or not. I personally recommend reading Wishers Beware, where the protagonist has morals but the society around him doesn't share them, and slavery is generalised.

I suspect that what you're pointing at are often lazy stories, rather than a symptom of a general degradation of occidental society.

I mean op complained about Webnovel not this site nor other media for the matter. A LOT of media throughout the world still retains a strong sense of morals. Perhaps the problem could be the Webnovel site reader base, or more correctly a portion of it.

Yeah, I'm waiting for our horseman of locked thread to wake up from slumber. The moment he does, you know it's the time to grab the popcorn and see the drama unfold while topics are being derailed left and right.

Blade and lloyd are two horsemen, are there two others?

 

[SilvCrimBlac]

I mean op complained about Webnovel not this site nor other media for the matter. A LOT of media throughout the world still retains a strong sense of morals. Perhaps the problem could be the Webnovel site reader base, or more correctly a portion of it.

Blade and lloyd are two horsemen, are there two others?

I know Blade is one, and I'm usually in agreement with him and his opinions most of the time, but not always. Like 85-90% But Lloyd? Kinda surprised he's considered one. Hell, if Lloyd is one, than I might as well cast myself as the 3rd one and put up flyers in search of the 4th.

 

[RepresentingWrath]

I mean op complained about Webnovel not this site nor other media for the matter. A LOT of media throughout the world still retains a strong sense of morals. Perhaps the problem could be the Webnovel site reader base, or more correctly a portion of it.

Blade and lloyd are two horsemen, are there two others?

Nah, Lloyd isn't a horseman. He is a troll, and the only ones who accidentally feed him are noobs. As for who are the other three horsemen? My take they are Ben, K5, and of course, Cupcake.

 

[SilvCrimBlac]

Nah, Lloyd isn't a horseman. He is a troll, and the only ones who accidentally feed him are noobs. As for who are the other three horsemen? My take they are Ben, K5, and of course, Cupcake.

I love how Blade is like the only universally agreed upon Horseman
This isn't even my first time hearing this.