What’s your take on nationalism in novels?

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CarburetorThompson

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I think it is easy enough to tell the difference between the bias of the narrator and the bias of the author. Like any other form of bias when given to a character it can provide interesting perspective. Doesn’t mean an author can’t insert their own national bias into fiction. I’m not mad at Animal Farm for dunking on the USSR, but that’s because it’s political. I think political works still have merit as art. It is just when you don’t fully commit and put political messages in something that isn’t built for it becomes traaaaasssshhhhhh.
 

SakeVision

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Pretty sure thats not Catholic. That's Eastern Orthodoxy with their prohibition against icons, statues, artwork and whatnot though they still break this rule depending on which eastern church you refer or speak to. Historically speaking, this was originally called the Iconoclasm, something the Byzantine Empire began but which never gained much traction in the Latin & Catholic west. Catholicism has been using icons and idols throughout its entire history and has never decreed it heretical. I mean, praying to Saints would break the rule of graven images, and just having artwork of Mother Mary would also be problematic to a stickler.

No idea about Judaism. They don't pray to prophets, they have no recognizable saints or even have their own version of Saints, or even consider martyrs as something to place within a context of holy remembrance. Don't think the concept of Jewish artwork ever became a thing with them as it did in Christianity. So maybe they don't even have the idea of iconography or idols?

Edit: Nevermind, I might have misunderstood your stance.

Their were parts in the Jewish text where men had more than one wife, but it was rare. Pretty sure there is no such thing in Catholicism, and if it is, it hearkens back to pre-Christian times when Christianity was still only in Judea or underground in the west and being persecuted, and not within any Catholic past as it became mainstream. I'm not Christian, but I'm well read. Still, correct me if I'm wrong.

Still, Catholicism....I don't think they've ever approved of or accepted polyamory. That sounds like another weird appropriation of the even weirder social cult that has quite the membership in this site. I hate to say SJW since that word is overly used and nearly dead now, so I'll just say "leftists" and pretend most people know what I'm getting at.

As a former catholic, I never ever heard about the graven image commandment until I dropped out of the cult and actually read the bible. The reason for that is that the version of the decalogue taught to Catholics is different from the one written in the bible.

https://www.catholic.com/magazine/print-edition/the-true-ten-commandments


The courthouse rendition read:

  1. I am the Lord thy God, thou shalt have no other gods before me.
  2. Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image.
  3. Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain.
  4. Remember the Sabbath Day to keep it holy.
  5. Honor thy father and thy mother.
  6. Thou shalt not kill.
  7. Thou shalt not commit adultery.
  8. Thou shalt not steal.
  9. Thou shalt not bear false witness.
  10. Thou shalt not covet.
Whereas the Catechism’s traditional presentation of the commandments for memorization are:

  1. I am the Lord your God: You shall not have strange Gods before me.
  2. You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain.
  3. Remember to keep holy the Lord’s Day.
  4. Honor your father and mother.
  5. You shall not kill.
  6. You shall not commit adultery.
  7. You shall not steal.
  8. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
  9. You shall not covet your neighbor’s wife.
  10. You shall not covet your neighbor’s goods.
 

TheHelpfulFawn

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I feel like there is a certain sense of superiority in all east asian countries. Especially amongst the Chinese, Koreans, and Japanese. Chinese people still have a strong dislike towards the Japanese from previous historical events. Japanese people pretending to be saints. And Koreans, well..
Wanna complete that sentence on Koreans? Because as a Korean, I would like to know what opinions you have on us.
 

Simo

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Wanna complete that sentence on Koreans? Because as a Korean, I would like to know what opinions you have on us.
Well, I don’t particularly have any strong opinion when it comes to Koreans. I have a few close Korean friends that studied with me in Uni back when I was in China, and if I was to give an opinion based on them alone, It’d definitely be positive, though they do hold a very strong sense of pride in their country, mind you that’s not a bad thing. But thing is, when It comes to novels, I wouldn’t say so. When It comes to Nationalism in novels, they rank pretty much just below the Chinese, hence why I usually dislike reading their stories that are in modern day setting.
 

Lloyd

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As a former catholic, I never ever heard about the graven image commandment until I dropped out of the cult and actually read the bible. The reason for that is that the version of the decalogue taught to Catholics is different from the one written in the bible.

https://www.catholic.com/magazine/print-edition/the-true-ten-commandments


The courthouse rendition read:

  1. I am the Lord thy God, thou shalt have no other gods before me.
  2. Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image.
  3. Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain.
  4. Remember the Sabbath Day to keep it holy.
  5. Honor thy father and thy mother.
  6. Thou shalt not kill.
  7. Thou shalt not commit adultery.
  8. Thou shalt not steal.
  9. Thou shalt not bear false witness.
  10. Thou shalt not covet.
Whereas the Catechism’s traditional presentation of the commandments for memorization are:

  1. I am the Lord your God: You shall not have strange Gods before me.
  2. You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain.
  3. Remember to keep holy the Lord’s Day.
  4. Honor your father and mother.
  5. You shall not kill.
  6. You shall not commit adultery.
  7. You shall not steal.
  8. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
  9. You shall not covet your neighbor’s wife.
  10. You shall not covet your neighbor’s goods.
Catholicism isn't a cult, its the one true faith.
 

TheHelpfulFawn

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Well, I don’t particularly have any strong opinion when it comes to Koreans. I have a few close Korean friends that studied with me in Uni back when I was in China, and if I was to give an opinion based on them alone, It’d definitely be positive, though they do hold a very strong sense of pride in their country, mind you that’s not a bad thing. But thing is, when It comes to novels, I wouldn’t say so. When It comes to Nationalism in novels, they rank pretty much just below the Chinese, hence why I usually dislike reading their stories that are in modern day setting.
If that's what you thought about Koreans, then why didn't you finish writing out that sentence and thought? Don't leave it undone otherwise it's going to come off as extremely fucking racist especially when you put it like, "And Koreans, well..." Making it seem like you have some sort of personal gripe with them.
 

Simo

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If that's what you thought about Koreans, then why didn't you finish writing out that sentence and thought? Don't leave it undone otherwise it's going to come off as extremely fucking racist especially when you put it like, "And Koreans, well..." Making it seem like you have some sort of personal gripe with them
If that's what you thought about Koreans, then why didn't you finish writing out that sentence and thought? Don't leave it undone otherwise it's going to come off as extremely fucking racist especially when you put it like, "And Koreans, well..." Making it seem like you have some sort of personal gripe with them.
If that's what you thought about Koreans, then why didn't you finish writing out that sentence and thought? Don't leave it undone otherwise it's going to come off as extremely fucking racist especially when you put it like, "And Koreans, well..." Making it seem like you have some sort of personal gripe with them.
Don’t talk to me like that. I don’t know you, and i’m not your friend either, so be respectful. You asked me what I meant and I cleared that out. Don’t come to me with this being ‘racist’ bullshit. Its not my fault you misunderstood it, or took it personally.
 

TheHelpfulFawn

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Don’t talk to me like that. I don’t know you, and i’m not your friend either, so be respectful. You asked me what I meant and I cleared that out. Don’t come to me with this being ‘racist’ bullshit. Its not my fault you misunderstood it, or took it personally.
Why would I need to show you respect when your wording makes it sound like you don't like Koreans? And you don't think people are not going to misunderstand, "And Koreans, well..." when you are making comments about the faults of Chinese and Japanese people? Don't be foolish and ignorant.
 

TheHelpfulFawn

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Stop being an overemotional twat. No one cares about your whining ass feelings but you. Piss off trying to pretend to be some wounded prick. Grow a pair. Damn, I get tired of these "woe is me" cunts on here pretending to be offended at every little slight. Sadly, it's not just you. These forums are plagued with others like you.

Want someone to finish that "And Koreans well....".

Sure!! I will!!

Koreans are the bitchboys of East Asia. North Korea only exists because it strokes a Chinese dick. South Korea exists because Americans happen to like you and need a counterweight against North Korea and China. Otherwise, you'd be licking a Japanese or Chinese boot right about now. And remember, North Korea was spanking that South Korean ass before Americans stepped in. There. Happy you have an opinion of Koreans now? Want to cry and bitch about it? Go ahead. Who gives a shit but you? No one.
A lot of vitriol you have there. So those are you're thoughts on everyone in Asia? Good to know that we have some people on this site that are truly full of hate for Asians would gladly defend the ignorant. Thanks for the enlightenment.
 

Simo

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A lot of vitriol you have there. So those are you're thoughts on everyone in Asia? Good to know that we have some people on this site that are truly full of hate for Asians would gladly defend the ignorant. Thanks for the enlightenment.
Nah, the problem here is you. This post has 60+ comments and no one created any problem, or tried to start any shit. Then you came, obviously trying to start a problem. I cleared out whatever misunderstanding you might have had, yet you continued by being disrespectful. Look here, I personally don’t give two flying fks about what you think. I have no personal problem with Chinese, Japanese, or Korean. We were talking about novels, so don’t come here sticking your ‘self righteous’ bullshit where it doesn’t belong.

Have a good day.
 

TheHelpfulFawn

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Nah, the problem here is you. This post has 60+ comments and no one created any problem, or tried to start any shit. Then you came, obviously trying to start a problem. I cleared out whatever misunderstanding you might have had, yet you continued by being disrespectful. Look here, I personally don’t give two flying fks about what you think. I have no personal problem with Chinese, Japanese, or Korean. We were talking about novels, so don’t come here sticking your ‘self righteous’ bullshit where it doesn’t belong.

Have a good day.
If you don't care about my opinions or thoughts, then block me. I'm just letting you know you should choose your words better or at least read them out loud before posting them. Not that hard.
 

bigbear51

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You're killing me man :ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:

Chill though before Tony comes and nukes this thread.
I guess he decided to just come in and nuke Blade instead. Because apparently that was the only thing in this thread that broke the rules *Cough* religion discussion *cough*
 
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SilvCrimBlac

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I guess he decided to just come in an nuke Blade instead. Because apparently that was the only thing in this thread that broke the rules *Cough* religion discussion *cough*
Nah, he deleted everyone of Blade's comments and only Blade's. Left the religious stuff up.
 

SilvCrimBlac

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Discount's been saying Tony has been targeting him specifically for over a year now. I've started to believe him lately. He'll get into arguments with people, but only his comments get deleted. This here wasn't one of the better examples, but a small example nonetheless.
 

NobleTalon

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I love warhammer 40k books, and in terms of nationalism, xenophobia and fanatism I don't know any other novel or universe who could portray it better than the Imperium of Man lmao

I would probably be able to read a story about isekaied hitler or stalin without any morality problem, because in the end it is just a story and following a mc doesn't mean adhere to everything he does or think.

Tbh when I read a novel, I tend to not care about such details and I drop my moral values for the time of reading.

If nationalism makes you feel uncomfortable, why read isekai (which are prolly the most popular kind of webnovel rn) cuz in the end they are full of unconscious and hidden messed up principles.

Why MC have no trouble eradicating whole villages of goblins, orcs or whatever else, but when it is about some slutty bunny girls or a random bitch princess trying to kill him he's trying to recruit them to his party/harem instead of just do like he would for another race or against a male enemy ?

Thats why I prefer to read low morality but logical stuff instead of righteous but completely retarded and not coherent stuff.

As for modern day fantasies I've always had a problem with this kind of novels. I like when it's either 0 or 1, having a mix between both ruin the story imo. It's better to have high fantasy in a different world or a realistic story in modern world, but every time I try a novel that mix up both genre into a kind of modern day low fantasy I end up dropping it during the first chapters
 

BearlyAlive

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Does the "X nation food best" kind of nationalism count? If yes, then JP kills the bird. Otherwise korea and china are both as worse as they can be with japan being half a mile behind.

But if you count the food nationalism then japan leads with at least 10 laps
 

NobleTalon

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Does the "X nation food best" kind of nationalism count? If yes, then JP kills the bird. Otherwise korea and china are both as worse as they can be with japan being half a mile behind.

But if you count the food nationalism then japan leads with at least 10 laps

The isekai MC looking for rice or soy sauce in another world is such a cliche

But on the other hand I can somehow understand it, it would be another cliche but as a french guy if I'm transported to another world the first thing that I would miss would be food lmao so I can't really blame them for their quest of holy rice
 

Mandark

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The issue with nationalism in fantasy novels is that always dumbs down the story and makes it less enjoyable. National politics are rarely ever clean enough to be put in the ‘good’ or ‘evil’ camps. Yet, when nationalism comes into a story, the ‘others’ really are just causing problems because they’re evil, jealous, and just devious.

Probably the worst example is the novel ‘The Hunman Emperor”. That novel started off strong but eventually devolved down to literally every problem faced by the ‘Great Tang’ being caused by foreigners living both inside and outside the country.
 
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