NotaNuffian
This does spark joy.
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- Nov 26, 2019
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So the issue with orcs, orges (this is a typo... fuck I am leaving it in), OGRES and trolls is like the issue of early elves and dwarves, creatures of the forest who were one in the same group as fae and then later interpretation by famous writers end up cleaving them into different races.Ok, so, I'm not really answering D&D gameplay questions. Those are a complete mess, and it's made all the murkier by the edition issues. If you want my opinion on the subject, D&D lore has just become a complete unapproachable and impenetrable mess ever since Wizards of the Coast got ahold of it. They keep coming out with new editions, and there are SO many differences between 3rd, 4th, and 5th edition that they may as well be completely different games. I simply do not have time to keep up with the mess that Wizards has made of the game.
TSR (the original creators of D&D, and the makers of 1st and 2nd edition) at least had some consistency between the different editions as though they were different iterations of the same game. They also tried to pay some attention to the original lore these creatures were based off of. (Although I have to say I am not a fan of what they did with Bahamut and Tiamat. Although, I suppose we wouldn't have Final Fantasy Bahamut without D&D Bahamut.)
For original lore, there's no such thing as Orcs. Orc is just a linguistically different term to refer to Ogres. So, Orc and Ogre are the same creature.
It was Tolkein who created the distinction between Orcs and Ogres that we know of today. He essentially created the Orc race, and gave it the back-story of Orcs being corrupted and magically changed Elves.
TSR, when they were making Dungeons and Dragons, later got ahold of Tolkein's orcs and gave them a new origin, making them into their own completely independent fantasy race with no off-shoot elf origin. (In a way though, Tolkein's Orcs also became something of an inspiration for TSR's interpretation on Dark Elves.)
Trolls, historically, are very different creatures from the version we got in D&D. They do not have a healing factor. However, something the historical trolls DO have that was not in D&D is that they turn to stone in the sunlight. That's only some interpretations on trolls though, but it was a fairly popular interpretation.
For the most part, Trolls were just these strange monstrous creatures that would inhibit protagonists in various folk-tales in many English-origin tales. Generally, they would be impossibly strong and defeating them in a contest of strength would be infeasible for the protagonist. So, they would have to somehow use their wit in order to defeat a troll.
Historical trolls are on the dull-witted side, however, they were a LOT smarter than the D&D version. I would put them on par with a 70 IQ human.
EDIT: (Another thing to note about Trolls is that they historically are not portrayed as mindlessly violent, and often actually like to engage in conversation. They usually act like some form of street-thug, shaking people down for money or some other various things using their overpowering strength to get what they want. Ultimately though, it is their peculiar combination of dull-wit and liking conversation that tends to get them in trouble.)
EDIT: (Ultimately, if you go to historical lore, there is zero difference between Orcs and Ogres. They are literally the same creatures by different names. Meanwhile, it is hard to differentiate between Trolls and Ogres as there are few distinctions there as well. For the most part, it looks like Trolls are just more comically portrayed versions of Ogres. Their features and abilities seem largely identical, with the only real difference being the sorts of stories they appear in.)
In regards to Aboleths, Illithids, and Succubie, that's a subject I am going to have to research as to whether or not there is any pre-D&D lore I can give you. I mean, I know for a fact the Succubus existed before D&D, but I don't know much about their lore beyond the demonic origin, and the sex-to-death thing. I wouldn't count on there being a lot of specifics though. Anything from before Bahm Stoker's Dracula tends to be shy on specifics so far as powers and abilities go.
Ps. Please take your time on Aboleths and Illithids though, these slimy fucks seem to be taken from HP lovecraft and I genuinely hate the lovecraftian OP creatures. Hard to write them in as monsters when those famous in the group are reality gods.
So they are mostly lacking in the physical forms like ghosts and stuff. I am looking mostly on those that have the capability to take up a manifestation into the physical plane (DnD style) and whether or not their powers align to those of demon-possessed. Ie levitation, telekinesis in lobbing people and furnitures in the room.Succubus are dream demons or demons of dreams. They are not vampires and don't have powers like vampires. Most similarities end up with the fact that both succubus and female vampires are depicted as beauties, and both of them suck.![]()